PIP Sensor?

Cobra5.0Jeep · Nov 26, 2005

OK i have a new PIP sensor i just haven't had time to install it. I am curious of the symptoms a bad PIP sensor.

Here are the symptoms my 92 5.0L is having.
1. Won't start when hot
2. Idles rough, almost like missing
3. Today driving to work it was missing on the freeway, on the way home it ran fine no missing.
4. Problem is intermitent, for a while it did start when hot but started funny now it won't again
5. Now it has a hard time starting cold, it'll idle at 1200k and then die, i have to keep the idle up to get it to stay running until i am ready to drive off.
6. Surges

Anyone have any idles or is it the PIP sensor?

Things i've changed
1.Starter
2. Alternator
3. ECT sensor
4. TFI

HISSIN50 · Nov 26, 2005

Have you pulled codes?

When it wont start, have you checked for spark and injector pulsing? If you have NEITHER, that suggests PIP. If you do have injector pulsing, the PIP is at least functional.

Good luck.

jrichker · Nov 26, 2005

Dump the codes and see what the computer says is wrong…

Here's the link to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great.

See http://www.troublecodes.net/Ford/
OR
See http://www.mustangworks.com/articles/electronics/eec-iv_codes.html

IF your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.

Codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see http://www.actron.com/product_detail.php?pid=16153 for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Walmart.

Or for a nicer scanner see http://www.midwayautosupply.com/detailedproductdescription.asp?3829 – It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $35.

A failing pip sensor will usually post code 14

2002BLGT · Nov 26, 2005

check the ground on the ECM and replace the PIP ......

Cobra5.0Jeep · Nov 26, 2005

For some reason i can't get codes out of it.

accidentprone86 · Nov 26, 2005

That is defiantly your pip sensor.
I have had this problem many times. For some reason about every 6 months my'n goes out. It may be because i bought a remanufactured distributor and i have gone through three of them since last year.
Anyway your problem is defiantly your pip sensor. I guarantee. It is much easier to replace the whole distributor then to take all of the pins and crap out to replace the sensor. However I do not recommend buying a reman. Spend the one hundred bucks for a new one; install in about 20 minutes and your off.

O yeah...lol, bad things happen when your timing light gets sucked in your fan, so pay attention.

Cobra5.0Jeep · Nov 26, 2005

accidentprone86 said:
That is defiantly your pip sensor.
I have had this problem many times. For some reason about every 6 months my'n goes out. It may be because i bought a remanufactured distributor and i have gone through three of them since last year.
Anyway your problem is defiantly your pip sensor. I guarantee. It is much easier to replace the whole distributor then to take all of the pins and crap out to replace the sensor. However I do not recommend buying a reman. Spend the one hundred bucks for a new one; install in about 20 minutes and your off.

O yeah...lol, bad things happen when your timing light gets sucked in your fan, so pay attention.

I got an electric fan so i don't think that will happen thanks for the info though. I already have a new sensor and i have a press to take the gear off and everything. Do you know of a site that gives directions on how install a new one? with pictures please?

Cobra5.0Jeep · Dec 11, 2005

Hey everyone that helped me. I just want you all to know i finally fixed it! I reaplced the EEC and the EEC Relay and now i can start it when its hot and get codes! 8 months later! Well i upgraded a lot of stuff on this engine so i guess all the money wasn't for nothing.
I am getting the code 22 now though and its idling funny but i am going to drive it and see if it just resets. I got the computer from a family friend that lives pretty close to sea level and i am up here at 3,000 feet so maybe the computer just needs to learn.
Thanks again

Cobra

jrichker · Dec 11, 2005

Code 22 MAP (vacuum) or BARO signal out of range. The MAP or BARO sensor is pretty much the same sensor for both Mass Air & Speed Density cars. The main difference is where it is connected. Mass Air cars vent it to the atmosphere, while Speed Density cars connect it to the intake manifold vacuum. Its purpose is to help set a baseline for the air/fuel mixture and changes in barometric pressure. The MAP or BAP sensor puts out a 5 volt square wave that changes frequency with variations in atmospheric pressure. The base is 154 HZ at 29.92" of mercury - dry sunny day at sea level, about 68-72 degrees. You need an oscilloscope or frequency meter to measure it.

Baro or MAP test using frequency meter - run the test key on engine off. The noise from the ignition system will likely upset the frequency meter. I used a 10 x oscilloscope probe connected from the frequency meter to the MAP/BAP to reduce the jitter in the meter's readout.

If it is defective, your air/fuel ratio will be off and the car’s performance & emissions will suffer

Black1987Stang · Dec 11, 2005

Cobra so ur hot start problem was the computer and eec relay, and ur missin problem was fixed by the new pip sensor right?

Cobra5.0Jeep · Dec 11, 2005

jrichker said:
Code 22 MAP (vacuum) or BARO signal out of range. The MAP or BARO sensor is pretty much the same sensor for both Mass Air & Speed Density cars. The main difference is where it is connected. Mass Air cars vent it to the atmosphere, while Speed Density cars connect it to the intake manifold vacuum. Its purpose is to help set a baseline for the air/fuel mixture and changes in barometric pressure. The MAP or BAP sensor puts out a 5 volt square wave that changes frequency with variations in atmospheric pressure. The base is 154 HZ at 29.92" of mercury - dry sunny day at sea level, about 68-72 degrees. You need an oscilloscope or frequency meter to measure it.

Baro or MAP test using frequency meter - run the test key on engine off. The noise from the ignition system will likely upset the frequency meter. I used a 10 x oscilloscope probe connected from the frequency meter to the MAP/BAP to reduce the jitter in the meter's readout.

If it is defective, your air/fuel ratio will be off and the car’s performance & emissions will suffer

If the BAP sensor was bad would it effect the idle and vaccuum?

Cobra5.0Jeep · Dec 11, 2005

87stangdiddle said:
Cobra so ur hot start problem was the computer and eec relay, and ur missin problem was fixed by the new pip sensor right?

the missing problem might be my BAP sensor, i never installed the PIP sensor.

jrichker · Dec 11, 2005

Cobra5.0Jeep said:
If the BAP sensor was bad would it effect the idle and vaccuum?

It could definitely affect the idle. Poor idle can affect the vacuum readings. However, with both an idle and vacuum problem, I would suspect a vacuum leak somewhere. Fix the code 22 and then be prepared to look for vacuum leaks if things don't improve.

Cobra5.0Jeep · Dec 12, 2005

jrichker said:
It could definitely affect the idle. Poor idle can affect the vacuum readings. However, with both an idle and vacuum problem, I would suspect a vacuum leak somewhere. Fix the code 22 and then be prepared to look for vacuum leaks if things don't improve.

Yeah, i already kind looked for a vaccuum leak. The only place i didn't look is the between the upper and lower intake.
I am gonna pick up a new BAP sensor today after work and i hope it fixes it.

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