Piston ring gap?

Wicked_306 · Sep 8, 2005

I have some speed pro 4.030 bore rings and am wondering if I need to worry about grinding them to make the gap bigger or if they will be ok as is. Its just a n/a 306. Thanks

vristang · Sep 8, 2005

What is the end gap now?

bluevenom867 · Sep 8, 2005

vristang said:
What is the end gap now?

Yes,that would be good to know befor giving out advice,Wicked_306 .

Wicked_306 · Sep 8, 2005

lol sorry guys i dont have a gauge handy right now so I cant find out. But most of the time do you have to grind on them or will the gap be right without messing with them. Thanks And also what should the gap be on a n/a 306.

bluevenom867 · Sep 8, 2005

Wicked_306 said:
lol sorry guys i dont have a gauge handy right now so I cant find out. But most of the time do you have to grind on them or will the gap be right without messing with them. Thanks And also what should the gap be on a n/a 306.

You say you got speed pro's,I would look on there web site and see if they dont recogmend a gap or call them.

Rick 91GT · Sep 8, 2005

Most likely you will still have to file them for proper clearance. Sometimes the top rings will be really close, but the 2nd rings are almost never close.

I'd go .018-.020 on the top ring, and then add +.002 to that for your second ring gap. The oil rings will need nothing...

YES I SAID THE 2ND RING GAP WILL BE LARGER THEN THE 1ST, THIS IS THE NEW IMPROVED WAY. IT HELPS GET THE AIR TRAPPED BETWEEN THE RINGS OUT FOR BETTER SEAL AND LESS FLUTTER

Have you ever filed a ring before? Do you have a ring filer or will these have to be done with a flat file?

bluevenom867 · Sep 8, 2005

Rick 91GT said:
Most likely you will still have to file them for proper clearance. Sometimes the top rings will be really close, but the 2nd rings are almost never close.

I'd go .018-.020 on the top ring, and then add +.002 to that for your second ring gap. The oil rings will need nothing...

YES I SAID THE 2ND RING GAP WILL BE LARGER THEN THE 1ST, THIS IS THE NEW IMPROVED WAY. IT HELPS GET THE AIR TRAPPED BETWEEN THE RINGS OUT FOR BETTER SEAL AND LESS FLUTTER

Have you ever filed a ring before? Do you have a ring filer or will these have to be done with a flat file?

Ahh,I see your using that method now to,we did that with our Perfect Circle (Dana corp.)rings in the 408.No problems at all,and they seated just fine if anyone is wondering.

Rick 91GT · Sep 8, 2005

Yeah I've been doing it for over a year now with no issues, atleast your starting to see the ring manufactors re-word/change there instructions. Only ring I get that states the top larger is Total Seal, but I hear they will be changing as well

giddyup306 · Sep 9, 2005

Rick 91GT said:
Yeah I've been doing it for over a year now with no issues, atleast your starting to see the ring manufactors re-word/change there instructions. Only ring I get that states the top larger is Total Seal, but I hear they will be changing as well

What he said. If you are using a bastard file be careful and make sure you are square.

bluevenom867 · Sep 9, 2005

giddyup306 said:
What he said. If you are using a bastard file be careful and make sure you are square.

Very true.

Also,you know the differance between the "Made in U.S.A" and the Chinese ring filers are?Almost $80!

But hey,most of the american made piece are metal,so you dont break them.

vristang · Sep 9, 2005

Only one other thing that I might be able to add...

Check with the manufacturer for which side of the ring to file. I think the oil rings on my Total Seals had to be filed on one side only, maybe it was the second rings. Not sure if anyone else does this though.

EMW150 · Sep 9, 2005

Rick 91GT said:
Yeah I've been doing it for over a year now with no issues, atleast your starting to see the ring manufactors re-word/change there instructions. Only ring I get that states the top larger is Total Seal, but I hear they will be changing as well

Hey Rick, I agree. The old theory was that the top ring was exposed to more heat (since it's directly exposed to combustion) than the secondary ring which caused it to expand more and tighten the gap. The thinking now (which I feel is correct) is to gap the secondary larger to allow the combustion gas that gets past the top ring out instead of trapping it and lifting that top ring causing increased blowby.

Rick 91GT · Sep 9, 2005

Always file both sides of your rings, make sure you keep them square, and deburr them after filing.

Eric, I gave Bill some more info this morning on rockers for you, if you need anything you can always just call my cell 717-343-2108.

EMW150 · Sep 9, 2005

Rick 91GT said:
Always file both sides of your rings, make sure you keep them square, and deburr them after filing.

Eric, I gave Bill some more info this morning on rockers for you, if you need anything you can always just call my cell 717-343-2108.

Cool, I like the sound of the Probe shaft setup. Bill told me about that. I'll probably go that route on the 342 since it's going to be revving quite a bit higher. For now I just want to get the 331 back up and running so I can see what it's going to do. I definately picked up in the 60' department last time out but the motor wasn't performing up high (valve springs) to see what I can get the 1/4 times down too. It was off by over 2 mph. Also I want one of those wings for next year. I checked Bill's out.

vristang · Sep 9, 2005

Rick 91GT said:
Always file both sides of your rings, make sure you keep them square, and deburr them after filing.

I won't argue that with regards to top and second rings, I've never seen otherwise. BUT, my oil control rings from Total Seal (both per piston) were to be filed from one side only. Each ring edge was not cut 90* to the circumference, as most rings are, but rather at a bout 45*. This angle should be retained as well.

Just make sure to check with the ring manufacturer.

Wicked_306 · Sep 9, 2005

This is more complicated than I thought. I dont have a ring grinder. Ill just have to use a flat file. This is my first ring job. So will the oil rings need to be grinded? Rick 91Gt said they wouldnt but some of you said I might have to grind one side. I guess I'll call Speed pro and find out if the oil rings need to be grinded. Thanks

Travis

Wicked_306 · Sep 9, 2005

And also, what is the best way to check the gap with? Will a feeler gauge be accurate enough? Thanks

vristang · Sep 9, 2005

Wicked_306 said:
This is more complicated than I thought. I dont have a ring grinder. Ill just have to use a flat file. This is my first ring job. So will the oil rings need to be grinded? Rick 91Gt said they wouldnt but some of you said I might have to grind one side. I guess I'll call Speed pro and find out if the oil rings need to be grinded. Thanks

Travis

Regardless of what Speedpro says I would put them in the cyl (every single one of them), and check the end gap. It would suck to kill a fresh motor because someone put the wrong rings in the right box. It does happen, but maybe it only happens to me.

EMW150 · Sep 9, 2005

Wicked_306 said:
This is more complicated than I thought. I dont have a ring grinder. Ill just have to use a flat file. This is my first ring job. So will the oil rings need to be grinded? Rick 91Gt said they wouldnt but some of you said I might have to grind one side. I guess I'll call Speed pro and find out if the oil rings need to be grinded. Thanks

Travis

With Speed Pros you don't. I've never used Total Seal to know but apparently you do.

Wicked_306 · Sep 9, 2005

Sorry guys. I said they were speed pros but they are Fedural Mogul Sealed power rings. Any input on these? Do the oil rings need to be grinded? Thanks

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