Please educate a 5.0 noob... how much power can I make?

Cobra4B · Oct 28, 2007

Back when I had my mustang it was a '97 Cobra w/ the 4.6 DOHC... I've had my Z06 for five years and all my motor knowledge is LSX based. I do my own work and did my cam swap etc.

I run HPDEs with my car and was on the edge of making it a track only car and putting a cage in it.

Well things have taken a turn... I'm getting a Panoz GT-RA for a track only car.

It's powered by a 5.0 w/ a K&N, headers, and straight pipes... they're around 250 crank HP.

Can anyone tell what I'm getting here? I'm assuming it's a stock 5.0 so I have a few questions:

1. Is that a stock intake manifold?
2. Are the 5.0s iron blocks? The ones in the Mustangs?
3. Is it a 4-bolt main?
4. How much power can I get out of H/C/I?

My current car is 6 lbs per horse (3100lb car / 515 crank HP). This car is 2500lbs w/ 250 crank HP so it's 10lbs per horse... not horrid, but not that great. I don't need to be the fastest thing on track anymore (just want something I can trash w/o worry and cheap to upkeep w/ track abuse) but when I did the Panoz school in '03 the cars felt somewhat slow.

I'd like around 400 crank horses if possible which would give me 6.25 lbs per horse.

All said... if 5.0 mods are anything like LSX mods... you reach a point of diminishing marginal returns. Meaning that a "budget" h/c package will make 460ish rwhp but to get to 480+ takes a $2500 set of heads vs. $1200 and lots of little other BS to get that last 20-30 rwhp.... I don't care about that. So what's a good package?

I was looking at Trick Flows 360 horse H/C/I packages... any help advice would be awesome.

FWIW here's my Z06... going to pull it apart and put some fresh paint on it and make it my waxer street bruiser again.
View attachment 352901
View attachment 352902
View attachment 352903

And here's the only pic of my old cobra I have online:
View attachment 352904

Thanks All,
Brian

cenok is family · Oct 28, 2007

welcome to stangnet! there's TONS of knowledgable people lurking around these boards, any questions you have, feel free to ask! as far as your questions, yes that is a stock intake and 302 blocks are cast iron. and they're 2 bolt mains. the heads and intake on these motors are real bottle necks...a good h/c/i package like the trickflow one you're looking at will definitely wake it up and get you a little over 300hp to the ground and even more torque. these motors respond well to forced induction as well. i'm at work so i can't really sit here and type a bunch, but other people will chime in with more useful information. good luck with it all and keep us updated!

Cobra4B · Oct 28, 2007

^ Thanks man... I've actually been a member here since 2000! I checked and my last post before today was in 2003!

I don't want to go FI as this is a road race car... how much is something like the TFS full package?

Any "places to go" for best pricing?

RYC CUKR · Oct 28, 2007

The trickflow kit goes for around $2500. Thats cam, intake, heads, timing chain, rockers, pushrods and gaskets. Pretty much everything that you need. You might want to pm aliate x since he has one on his 5.0. If you went with a custom cam and a dyno tune you could probably squeeze even more power out of it.

Cobra4B · Oct 28, 2007

Looking at Edlebrock, TFS, AFR... anyone else? Who are the big tuners putting together packages?

For LSX I can go to LGM, ECS, 21st century muscle cars, etc etc... who is there for these cars?

They'll typically have more "advanced" packages available then the out of the box stuff from the mfgs.

cenok is family · Oct 28, 2007

Cobra4B said:
Looking at Edlebrock, TFS, AFR... anyone else? Who are the big tuners putting together packages?

For LSX I can go to LGM, ECS, 21st century muscle cars, etc etc... who is there for these cars?

They'll typically have more "advanced" packages available then the out of the box stuff from the mfgs.

http://www.andersonfordmotorsport.com/

they've got a couple packages. here's a direct link to them, actually..

http://www.andersonfordmotorsport.com/powerpacks/packages.html

Cobra4B · Oct 28, 2007

^ Thanks!

How much power can I make w/ GT-40 P heads, manifold, and a good cam?

Repostyle · Oct 28, 2007

That is not a stock intake. It looks like a cobra intake with the ports staggard like that, but I don't think it's a cobra either.

Stock

Cobra

SuperStang83 · Oct 28, 2007

I believe that is an Explorer intake. That car looks like it will be alot of fun. I have seen a 5.0 in an RX-7 before on a hill climbing track and that rear was all over the place.

Cobra4B · Oct 28, 2007

My buddy says it's a GT-40 intake w/o the elbow... I'm wondering if the motor is a gt-40 explorer motor. If that's the case then a nice cam shoudl be all it needs. I wonder if it has GT40-p heads.

stykthyn · Oct 28, 2007

ditto on the explorer intake. if it has the matching heads and a decent cam then you should be seeing about 280-300 at the crank.

cenok is family · Oct 28, 2007

Repostyle said:
That is not a stock intake. It looks like a cobra intake with the ports staggard like that, but I don't think it's a cobra either.

Stock

Cobra

good point, i didn't even notice that. it's an explorer intake. pull a valve cover if you can. if they're gt40p heads, it'll say 'GTP' if i remember correctly.

Cobra4B · Oct 28, 2007

Thanks guys... if it's indeed explorer heads/intake how much can I make w/ the right cam? Since it's a track car manners below 3000 rpms don't matter.

90_Red_LX · Oct 28, 2007

Personally if your looking for 400hp you won't get it with gt40p and explorer intake stuff. I assume since it's a track car you'll want to stay N/A. Personally I would do a 347 stroker with afr 185 heads, custom cam, and a decent intake. This should give you 400hp easy without sacrificing a lot of power below 3k rpms. If you really wanted some torque you could look into a 351w based stroker. Doesn't cost much if anything more to build, and 400hp would be a very mild combo, hence torquey. All but a select few parts will interchange from a 302 also.

EDIT: Read your post wrong, below 3k doesn't matter. A 331/347 based stroker with the same setup as stated above but with a more aggressive custom cam and intake will easily do 400.

vristang · Oct 28, 2007

For a track only car,
Go custom cam with heads and intake.... ALL of these parts should be specified by the cam grinder...

There are a couple of guys who do this kind of work on the 5.0's.

Jay Allen is who I recommend...
www.camshaftInnovations.com

Give him a call, AND LEAVE A MESSAGE.
He will call you back when he has time (he is a busy dude).

For what you are talking about doing, in that car, I would only go the custom cam route...
Then let the cam grinder pick the heads, intake, springs, lifters, etc.

just my opinion though

Good Luck, that looks like a fun ride...
jason

jtfairlane · Oct 28, 2007

cenok is family said:
good point, i didn't even notice that. it's an explorer intake. pull a valve cover if you can. if they're gt40p heads, it'll say 'GTP' if i remember correctly.

Why would you go to all the trouble of removing the upper intake and pulling a valve cover to check if they are GT-40P heads?

There are 2 ways to distinguish the GT-40P heads without removing anything.

There will be 4 cast in vertical bars on the end of the heads with the accessory bolt holes (regular iron GT-40 heads have 3 cast in vertical bars). The other way is just to look next to the spark plug holes by either the #1 or #8 cylinders (looking at the exhaust port side of the heads, all the way to the right), if it is a GT-40P, it will say "GTP". Regular GT-40 iron heads say "GT" in the same location.

giddyup306 · Oct 28, 2007

1. Is that a stock intake manifold?
2. Are the 5.0s iron blocks? The ones in the Mustangs?
3. Is it a 4-bolt main?
4. How much power can I get out of H/C/I?

1. That is an explorer intake. The Eplorer/GT40/Cobra intake uses the same gaskets for the runners so they look similar. Note the "5.0' plate on the intake. It look identical in shape to a stock 5.0 intake's plaque. This is how I know it is an explorer intake and not a cobra (gt 40 looks much different than either).

2. The block should be iron unless it is an aftermarket block.

3. Probably not. The only OE four bolt main 302/5.0 blocks that I know of are the highly sought after (and very pricy) 69-70 BOSS blocks (see avitar). FRPP put them back into production this year. And the three inner mains only have 4 bolts. At least the authentic blocks are that way. The new ones may be cast different.

4. How much power are you looking to get? As mentioned their are 302 and 351 based strokers out there as well. My street/strip 347 is in the 500+ area even before the nitrous. But then again I have tons of money in the engine. It just depends on how crazy you want to get.

lang williams · Oct 28, 2007

since you road race i would think getting aluminum heads to drop 50 pounds off the nose would be a good ideal, unless you race a class where parts must be "production" based pieces.

giddyup306 · Oct 28, 2007

lang williams said:
since you road race i would think getting aluminum heads to drop 50 pounds off the nose would be a good ideal, unless you race a class where parts must be "production" based pieces.

Not a lot of aluminum heads weigh a lot less than the production heads. For example my Edel 6025s only weigh 2-4lbs less per head than the E7TEs that came stock. That's just one example that came off the top of my head. I have a book that has the weights of aftermarket heads but it isn't here. Their probably is a set of heads out their that weighs a lot less than the OE heads but mine are not one of them.

Cobra4B · Oct 28, 2007

Thanks guys... I need to see what heads I'm working with now that I know it has an exploder manifold.

I like the idea of calling a cam grinder and going from there... we'll see.

I'm not going for an all out expensive every last pony build. I want cheap/easy because I full expect to break the motor eventually and build it back w/ something like a 331 stroker.

Some local buddies are now suggesting AFR165s (or TFSs) Edlebrock performer or TFS track heat manifold, and the cam to go w/ it. Should get me 290ish rwhp which is plenty in a 2500lb car.

Please educate a 5.0 noob... how much power can I make?

Cobra4B

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