Pms Tuner Question

[lxwants12's]

Anybody here use a pms tuner with a h/c/i n/a combo and see a decent benefit....i wanna get my car tuned right now cause its a/f ratio isnt perfect but im also gonna supercharge the car in a few months so i was thinkin o buying this tuner and using it now and later but was wondering if i should cause everytime i have seen it being used is with forced induction

 

[Grn92LX]

n/a PMS user here. Love it! Didn't get to do a full tune because I ended up pulling my motor to build a new combo. I bought it mostly to fix and tune my horrible idle. Fixed that in a day so it already paid for itself. Go to www.stangtuning.com tons of n/a PMS users there as well as blower/nitrous PMS guys. A wideband kit and a PMS and your set. Won't have to dyno a million times to fine tune the combo. IMO you'll get a better tune on the street since its a real load rather than a slow pull on the dyno in 4th gear. I gotta pick up a wideband so I can street tune my 347 once its running.

 

[lxwants12's]

ok thanx alot needed to here that and thanx for the link...did u tune it yourself or some1 else??

 

[Grn92LX]

I had a guy on that site set me up with a base tune and I put it in the PMS. Like I said, I didn't 100% dial it in because I pulled the car apart. The idle I tuned myself and fixed. That alone made the car a LOT more driveable. The expandability of the PMS is great. No need to go to the dyno everytime the weather changes or you change a part. A wideband and a PMS (or any other good tuning device) are great to have.

 

[5spd GT]

n/a PMS user here. Love it! Didn't get to do a full tune because I ended up pulling my motor to build a new combo. I bought it mostly to fix and tune my horrible idle. Fixed that in a day so it already paid for itself. Go to www.stangtuning.com tons of n/a PMS users there as well as blower/nitrous PMS guys. A wideband kit and a PMS and your set. Won't have to dyno a million times to fine tune the combo. IMO you'll get a better tune on the street since its a real load rather than a slow pull on the dyno in 4th gear. I gotta pick up a wideband so I can street tune my 347 once its running.

I'm going to have to disagree with the "no need for a dyno session"...

lxwants12 - If you have a reputable shop in your area they can tune your car nicely and can see what your car actually does when it is under part throttle or WOT...a chip to be burnt would be nice and they can simply reflash if you change the mods considerably...ideally I believe a dyno tune would be better if you have a nice shop to do it. PMS isn't the only way...check out the TwEECer (same concept...more in-depth)...

It is hard to tune by the seat of the pants...(PMS) but a dyno can show you what is truely going on...I'm not going to downplay the PMS to much in this one...but just realize the SOTP can be harder to distinguish than a dyno that "doesn't lie"...

Good Luck with your tuning choice...

 

[D347643]

haha is it just me do you two always disagree.....ah 65mm vs 75mm tb thread.

 

[Grn92LX]

haha is it just me do you two always disagree.....ah 65mm vs 75mm tb thread.

Point of THIS thread was who uses a PMS to tune a n/a combo. Not sure what 5spd GT is doing in the thread if he doesn't use a PMS on his n/a combo?

PMS (or any good tuning device) + a wideband = no need for a dyno end of story. Unless you wanna see what kinda #'s you put out (i could care less about rwhp as long as the a/f is good) A wideband and a street tune = MORE real world load rather than a slow pull in 1 gear. Your not tuning seat of the pants, your watching a wideband a/f meter and tuning as needed. A tuning device will tune part throttle way better because if your having issues, just make some minor changes until the issue is gone. Same thing with the idle. With a chip once the weather changes you are more than likely gonna need a retune for idle and power (HUGE inconvience and more $$) These EFI cars are weather tempermental once you modify them with h/c/i, injectors, mass air yada yada.

Point of the thread was about tuning a n/a combo with a PMS, NOTHING more NOTHING less

 

[Daggar]

I'm going to have to disagree with the "no need for a dyno session"...

lxwants12 - If you have a reputable shop in your area they can tune your car nicely and can see what your car actually does when it is under part throttle or WOT...a chip to be burnt would be nice and they can simply reflash if you change the mods considerably...ideally I believe a dyno tune would be better if you have a nice shop to do it. PMS isn't the only way...check out the TwEECer (same concept...more in-depth)...

It is hard to tune by the seat of the pants...(PMS) but a dyno can show you what is truely going on...I'm not going to downplay the PMS to much in this one...but just realize the SOTP can be harder to distinguish than a dyno that "doesn't lie"...

Good Luck with your tuning choice...

Actually, with a WB02 that's capable of data logging, an RPM converter, and some patience, you can do very very well without a dyno tune. A lot of you are familiar with my SD/KB setup. When I installed it, there was no dyno (not as far as I knew anyway). Street tune was my only option. A few months later I managed to find a dyno pretty near me. The tune ended up being as good as it possibly good be for the size injectors I have installed (perfect across the power band and leaned out to the limit of the injectors up top). Not too shabby for a $400 WB02.

 

[Daggar]

PMS (or any good tuning device) + a wideband = no need for a dyno

I agree. So long as you can log data. I don't like the idea of having to "watch" the damned AFR meter while I'm haulin ass down the road. That's pretty ineffectual anyway.

 

[Grn92LX]

Nice post old man Daggar

 

[Grn92LX]

I agree. So long as you can log data. I don't like the idea of having to "watch" the damned AFR meter while I'm haulin ass down the road. That's pretty ineffectual anyway.

Yeah data logging is a good thing to have for a/f. Can a chip data log? I like the features of that LM 1 kit you told me about.

 

[5spd GT]

Actually, with a WB02 that's capable of data logging, an RPM converter, and some patience, you can do very very well without a dyno tune. A lot of you are familiar with my SD/KB setup. When I installed it, there was no dyno (not as far as I knew anyway). Street tune was my only option. A few months later I managed to find a dyno pretty near me. The tune ended up being as good as it possibly good be for the size injectors I have installed (perfect across the power band and leaned out to the limit of the injectors up top). Not too shabby for a $400 WB02.

Nice...but you can't always ensure your getting the "right" tune...I'm sure you could agree with me on that? You obviously did good with it

D347643 - Yeah that is pretty accurate I have daily driver thoughts/performance on my mind and he has getting down the track faster in compensation. Just two different ways (people) with their attitudes stuck where it is...

 

[5spd GT]

Point of THIS thread was who uses a PMS to tune a n/a combo. Not sure what 5spd GT is doing in the thread if he doesn't use a PMS on his n/a combo?

Well if it is the point of THIS thread...why did you bring up the dyno? Exactly...the same reason why I compared it to a PMS...

PMS (or any good tuning device) + a wideband = no need for a dyno end of story. Unless you wanna see what kinda #'s you put out (i could care less about rwhp as long as the a/f is good) A wideband and a street tune = MORE real world load rather than a slow pull in 1 gear. Your not tuning seat of the pants, your watching a wideband a/f meter and tuning as needed. A tuning device will tune part throttle way better because if your having issues, just make some minor changes until the issue is gone. Same thing with the idle. With a chip once the weather changes you are more than likely gonna need a retune for idle and power (HUGE inconvience and more $$) These EFI cars are weather tempermental once you modify them with h/c/i, injectors, mass air yada yada.

You NEVER added a wideband in your other post...so why you trying to change it now. You "getting" one isn't the same point as you just made. You were just talking about the PMS at that point...no wideband was mentioned

I guess your not to familiar with what a dyno does...much more controlled situation...I love how you describe it as "one slow pull in 1 gear"...1:1 ratio is why...

In the guys I know that have "chips" don't need a retune (neither do others that I have read) after the weather changes...that is a inaccurate argument and extrememly bias to "pro" the PMS. Inaccurate...how does the "stock one" do it? Mine acts good at 0* or 110* So if I get an aftermarket chip burnt to my car will it only act "good" at room temperature...lol...I think not

Is it a "HUGE" inconvience to everyone? Nope...could the PMS (self tuning possible screw up) be an inconvience...Sure...to everyone...no. Same for the chip...you put out horrible arguments. Not to much thought put into them IMO. Your probably just tired but still...

My car isn't weather tempermental...nothing different than when I had stock MAF/injectors/heads/cam/intake...so I guess "these" cars isn't mine and some others...that is funny. I guess I got the "lucky" one

Point of the thread was about tuning a n/a combo with a PMS, NOTHING more NOTHING less

Then why did you bring up the dyno? Why can you compare...and not me?

 

[Grn92LX]

I guess your not to familiar with what a dyno does...much more controlled situation...I love how you describe it as "one slow pull in 1 gear"...1:1 ratio is why...

I'm very familiar with what a dyno does, plenty of pulls on my combo's both n/a and a hit (thats nitrous for you non racers) You ever go on one? The load on the dyno vs the load on the street/track is very different. Think david, think.

In the guys I know that have "chips" don't need a retune (neither do others that I have read) after the weather changes...that is a inaccurate argument and extrememly bias to "pro" the PMS. Inaccurate...how does the "stock one" do it? Mine acts good at 0* or 110* So if I get an aftermarket chip burnt to my car will it only act "good" at room temperature...lol...I think not

Common sense has to prevail here, lemme explain. Lets say you get your car chipped now when its spring time. All is running good and the a/f is good. Well, the colder months roll along and since your a daily driver I know you drive your stang in the winter. Well, you will run LEANER in the colder weather. I guess for a n/a combo like you, its not too big a deal, but you paid all that money for a chip and now all of a sudden the tune isn't 100% anymore. Kind of dangerous if your turbo'd or blown.

you put out horrible arguments. Not to much thought put into them IMO

Apparently not if you don't see how weather effects a tune.

My car isn't weather tempermental...nothing different than when I had stock MAF/injectors/heads/cam/intake...so I guess "these" cars isn't mine and some others...that is funny. I guess I got the "lucky" one

Again, go chip tune your car now and then make a few passes then make some passes in the middle of winter. You'll learn pretty quick. I have first hand experience with that at the track and cold weather

I'm sure you'll respnd to this, but i'm done and I won't be responding. Unless nate wants to take my place For the record, I am NOT just pro PMS, I am pro self tuning whether it be tweecer, eec tuner, speedbrain, pms, aem.

 

[5spd GT]

I'm very familiar with what a dyno does, plenty of pulls on my combo's both n/a and a hit (thats nitrous for you non racers) You ever go on one? The load on the dyno vs the load on the street/track is very different. Think david, think.



Common sense has to prevail here, lemme explain. Lets say you get your car chipped now when its spring time. All is running good and the a/f is good. Well, the colder months roll along and since your a daily driver I know you drive your stang in the winter. Well, you will run LEANER in the colder weather. I guess for a n/a combo like you, its not too big a deal, but you paid all that money for a chip and now all of a sudden the tune isn't 100% anymore. Kind of dangerous if your turbo'd or blown.



Apparently not if you don't see how weather effects a tune.




Again, go chip tune your car now and then make a few passes then make some passes in the middle of winter. You'll learn pretty quick. I have first hand experience with that at the track and cold weather

I'm sure you'll respnd to this, but i'm done and I won't be responding. Unless nate wants to take my place

Your right...I am going to respond (when do I not )...I did some quick looking over on www.stangtuning.com and thought it was quite ironic and almost oxymoronic that in the FAQ section it talked about how to use the PMS for you dyno tunes...but I thought dyno tunes weren't needed with the PMS (even with the wideband)...but Mr. Anderson himself thought it would be good that route Dale posted on there about how he gained 10rwhp on the dyno over the PMS...(fast94gt)...that was the only thread I clicked on...because I seen that Nate made a thread in mid-April...just thought I'd click.

You give bias info...not very accurate and it is "blown" out to exxagerated points and happenings which I think need to be addressed properly.

The PMS isn't the only way...

Your tune will not be a guaranteed 100% with a PMS if alls you can go buy is eyesight (wideband and the "screen")...not guarantees there...the dyno will do that for you whether you need to "reflash" or not...