Possible Parasitic Draw... Follow My Journey

[daveinfl33777]

I have possible parasitic draw coming from fuse 39...I test for parasitic draw and I get .17amps (170 miliamps) and then if I wait long enough it does seem to go down to .040 to .050.....so my concern is that the GEM isn't always going to sleep....

Fuse 39 is the 5 amp fuse that has the draw....seeing how it's a 5 amp fuse I believe it just basically powers up the module...so at this point I either have some type of intermittent short causing it to not always shut off or no problem at all....or maybe issue with one of the switches....what are some ways I can go about troubleshooting? I'm thinking that the GEM just isn't going to sleep all the time...are there certain things I can test like door ajar switches headlights left on chimes etc that could lead me to a more direct answer?

 

[Mcmahst]

Your issue sound like many other GEM failures. While I’m no believer in parts swapping to diagnose problems, it seems like internet available testing information is weak or non-existent. The testing manuals are like north of $150 (Mitchell’s). At around $70-$90, maybe one from Amazon, and if that doesn’t do it, you could return it? Again, not a big fan of that process, but you’re asking. Not great advice, but advice nonetheless. Good luck.

 

[daveinfl33777]

Your issue sound like many other GEM failures. While I’m no believer in parts swapping to diagnose problems, it seems like internet available testing information is weak or non-existent. The testing manuals are like north of $150 (Mitchell’s). At around $70-$90, maybe one from Amazon, and if that doesn’t do it, you could return it? Again, not a big fan of that process, but you’re asking. Not great advice, but advice nonetheless. Good luck.

$90 on amazon for the gem module or the manual to help me troubleshoot the GEM?

I wish there was more information....I'm left in the dark as to schematics of this GEM....I'm assuming being a 5 amp fuse that it's just a small current to simply power up the GEM which comes from the PCM....that would be my guess....and the PCM needs to see that certain criteria is met to shut the GEM down (doors latched, etc)

But again I still am going to test one more time tomorrow but this time I'm going to just monitor the fuse 39 mv drop and actually shut the door to really simulate exactly what happens when I turn the car off and leave it be...

 

[Bullitt347]

Without a wiring diagram, you will just be guessing.
It can take upwards of 20 min to fully shut down some modules.
Key out of the ignition, all doors/hood shut.
Anything over 250 milli amps is to much.
99.9% of the time, you buy a electronic part, there is no return/refund. You buy it, you own it.
Buying a vehicle specific wiring diagram is well worth the money spent...assuming you know how to read a wiring diagram.

 

[daveinfl33777]

Without a wiring diagram, you will just be guessing.
It can take upwards of 20 min to fully shut down some modules.
Key out of the ignition, all doors/hood shut.
Anything over 250 milli amps is to much.
99.9% of the time, you buy a electronic part, there is no return/refund. You buy it, you own it.
Buying a vehicle specific wiring diagram is well worth the money spent...assuming you know how to read a wiring diagram.

You must be psychic lol...just purchased wiring diagram and going over it as I type this....I am learning more...I wish there was a detail of exactly what fuse 39 circuit is doing inside the GEM....all I got is it's a white/yellow wire that is on connector c201b....there is a number 20 next to the wh/ye color identifier...not sure what that means...1001 is the number to the left...bottom left says 2 (assuming that's pin location) and bottom right is c201b which is of course the connector....then it goes into the GEM and says VBATT....which I'm assuming is vehicle battery voltage....I just wish I knew it's relationship to the PCM and how the PCM tells it to shut down or does the GEM itself go to sleep with something inside the GEM that monitors all switches are closed

 

[Bullitt347]

The number 20 is probably the gauge of the wire on that circuit.
Take a pic of the diagram with the GEM. Post it up.

 

[daveinfl33777]

Here

 

[Bullitt347]

The 5 amp fuse is just Battery power to the GEM nothing more.
If it is not blown, then there is no problem with that part of the GEM.
That has nothing to do with the PCM or it's functions.

 

[daveinfl33777]

The 5 amp fuse is just Battery power to the GEM nothing more.
If it is not blown, then there is no problem with that part of the GEM.
That has nothing to do with the PCM or it's functions.

Ok that's what I thought and I think there is no parasitic draw on this car....

I checked ac voltage on battery and i got 30 volts ac....I dont think that's normal and I think that's why I may be going through batteries so often and they drain....they drain WHILE the car is running versus when it is off...

But maybe I'm wrong I don't know about this stuff...I just don't think I should see any AC voltage at the battery

The 5 amp fuse is just Battery power to the GEM nothing more.
If it is not blown, then there is no problem with that part of the GEM.
That has nothing to do with the PCM or it's functions.

So basically if you are reading a voltage drop at fuse 39 (gem fuse) then the GEM just didn't go to sleep...you either didn't wait long enough or there is an issue causing it to not go to sleep

 

[Bullitt347]

There will always be Battery voltage at fuse 39. and thus at the GEM
The Battery Junction Box even says "hot at all times" at fuse 39.
The GEM always has power and ground.
Now if the GEM does not go to sleep, that is a different issue.

 

[Bullitt347]

Ok that's what I thought and I think there is no parasitic draw on this car....

I checked ac voltage on battery and i got 30 volts ac....I dont think that's normal and I think that's why I may be going through batteries so often and they drain....they drain WHILE the car is running versus when it is off...

But maybe I'm wrong I don't know about this stuff...I just don't think I should see any AC voltage at the battery

What kind of current does an alternator put out?
When does an alternator make that kind of current?
What do you think the battery is going to read when the alternator is putting out that current if the DVOM is set on AC?

 

[daveinfl33777]

What kind of current does an alternator put out?
When does an alternator make that kind of current?
What do you think the battery is going to read when the alternator is putting out that current if the DVOM is set on AC?

I figured i should never see ac voltage at all at the battery posts unless a diode was bad...but I think these multimeters just simply are giving me a false reading

 

[Noobz347]

I figured i should never see ac voltage at all at the battery posts unless a diode was bad...but I think these multimeters just simply are giving me a false reading

It's just not being used correctly.

You [should] get erroneous readings when testing for AC current/voltage in a DC circuit just like you'd get erroneous readings from an AC circuit in the DC setting.

 

[daveinfl33777]

It's just not being used correctly.

You [should] get erroneous readings when testing for AC current/voltage in a DC circuit just like you'd get erroneous readings from an AC circuit in the DC setting.

Oh ok...well I guess it's back to the drawing board...maybe just maybe i have an intermittent draw that I'm missing...or maybe I'm just simply not driving this car enough to recharge this cheap everstart $100 walmart battery....only thing that I see off electrically is the ABS light is on and theft light is on with the car off....it stays on....as far as ABS I think thats just a bad ABS module

 

[Noobz347]

cheap everstart $100 walmart battery

How I rate batteries is by their [reserve capacity] and warranty/weight.

I could [never] run that kind of battery you have in my Caddy, for instance. Too many computers to feed.

Can you say how long it takes for the car to sit from a fully charged battery to when it's dead?

 

[daveinfl33777]

How I rate batteries is by their [reserve capacity] and warranty/weight.

I could [never] run that kind of battery you have in my Caddy, for instance. Too many computers to feed.

Can you say how long it takes for the car to sit from a fully charged battery to when it's dead?

That I'm not sure on i know i went one time about 6 days I'm pretty sure and it started but I also know i started it and only lasted 3 days or so but that it may not have har a full charge on because I just started it and let it idle for 5 to 10 min

At this point I'm pretty convinced that I don't have a draw...I once again put car to sleep and I got my meter fluctuating at .04 and .05 amps

I think i just need to drive it more....I think if I had a normal good battery $180 to $200 it would be fine with how little I drive it but not this $100 cheap battery

 

[daveinfl33777]

Now I'm just genuinely curious how to read the GEM wiring diagram....I see VBATT going from that small 5 amp fuse and figured that is the only battery power going into the module....however there are other circuits going in providing VBATT.....also VPWR which I guess is module power....I'm assuming that VPWR is power that is leaving the module? I just want to learn more about it

 

[Noobz347]

That I'm not sure on i know i went one time about 6 days I'm pretty sure and it started but I also know i started it and only lasted 3 days or so but that it may not have har a full charge on because I just started it and let it idle for 5 to 10 min

At this point I'm pretty convinced that I don't have a draw...I once again put car to sleep and I got my meter fluctuating at .04 and .05 amps

I think i just need to drive it more....I think if I had a normal good battery $180 to $200 it would be fine with how little I drive it but not this $100 cheap battery

Just get a tender for it:

https://www.amazon.com/Automatic-Maintainer-Desulfator-Motorcycle-Batteries/dp/B0B3RJCNS5?sr=8-1

El Cheapo with a desulfator function. If you wire in a permanent harness and connector, you can connect/disconnect it without even popping the hood.

 

[daveinfl33777]

Just get a tender for it:

https://www.amazon.com/Automatic-Maintainer-Desulfator-Motorcycle-Batteries/dp/B0B3RJCNS5?sr=8-1

El Cheapo with a desulfator function. If you wire in a permanent harness and connector, you can connect/disconnect it without even popping the hood.

At this point I'm just genuinely curious about the wiring diagram and how the GEM works more so than fixing my car lol....I dont even think I have a draw but I'm just wondering how the GEM get vbatt from fuse 39 and also other fuses show vbatt going into the GEM..

 

[Mcmahst]

Buy the book and become the GEM go-to guy on this site. It’s a thought