Powermaster or 3G- Alternator Gurus!

I chose a 3G 160 amper. I am not a fan of one wire set-ups, but that is a personal thing. James (The User) and others do run those alts and can comment further.

The rewire is quite simple in either event.

Good luck.

what's the name of that setup refer to (one wire) because it makes sense to me you need at least two wires (one for stator and the 4 gauge positive feed)

Euphoric306 said:

what's the name of that setup refer to (one wire) because it makes sense to me you need at least two wires (one for stator and the 4 gauge positive feed)

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One wire alts= self-exciting. They are turned on when they reach a certain RPM threshold.

Depending upon how the cold idle is set, the alt may or may not turn on with the cold-idle RPM threshold.

Installed a 3g from PA-Performance last summer. Works great, and was pretty straight forward to install.

They sell either: You can get just the alternator or you can buy the whole kit (if you are afraid of wiring) www.pa-performance.com

Their alternator's are a little pricey though. I am searching ebay and a few other Mustang shops to see if I can find a new one cheaper.

HISSIN50 said:

One wire alts= self-exciting. They are turned on when they reach a certain RPM threshold.

Depending upon how the cold idle is set, the alt may or may not turn on with the cold-idle RPM threshold.

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Hissin50's point is important to take notice of if you have underdrive pulleys.

The underdrive pulleys can significantly raise the RPM level at which an alternator starts to output sufficent current to change the battery and power the car's electrical system.

In other words, with underdrive pulleys, even a PA one wire 130 amp alternator can let your battery run down and not put out enough juice.

The wiring isn't hard to do for a regular 3G, here's websites with pictures of the 3G installation...

See http://www.geocities.com/smithmonte/Auto/3G_130A_Alternator_Upgrade.htm - all the tech data you could ever want to know
OR
http://www.mustangcentral.net/tech/alternator.html - excellent pictures of installation

Use these sites for information on the right way to do the wiring. Some people will tell you that you can skip the wiring upgrade, but it will catch up with you sooner or later. A fire in the wiring harness is ugly and expensive.

Under no circumstances connect the two 10 gauge black/white wires to the 3G alternator. If the fuse blows in the 4 gauge wire, the two 10 gauge wires will be overloaded to the point of catching fire and burning up the wiring harness.

The secondary power ground is between the back of the intake manifold and the driver's side firewall. It is often missing or loose. It supplies ground for the alternator, A/C compressor clutch and other electrical accessories such as the gauges. Any car that has a 3G alternator needs a 4 gauge ground wire running from the block to the chassis ground where the battery pigtail ground connects.

Electric fan = 3G alternator if you want long life & reliability from your car.
The electric fan saves some HP. The stock fan's parasitic drag runs from 7-12 HP depending on who you talk to. The electric fan uses about 1/2 HP of power from the electrical system.

Figure this:
Ignition system & computer = 12 amps
Fuel pump = 12 amps
Exterior lights = 15 amps
Fan (heater or A/C) = 15 amps (can run between 5-25 amps depending on setting)
Radio & instruments = 10 amps
Wipers = 10 amps

That's grand total of 74 amps from a 65 amp alternator. Talk about overdrawn at the bank!

See WWW.partsexpress.com for the fuse & fuse holder.
Fuse @ $3.90 each (need one) http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=071-952

Fuseholder @ $5.80 each (need one) http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=263-630

4 gauge black wire @ $1.25 a foot (use string to lay out routing & determine length) http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=100-196

4 gauge red wire @ $1.25 a foot (use string to lay out routing & determine length) http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=100-194

4 gauge ring crimp terminals (package of 5) $3.25. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=095-584

Pre-fab 4 gauge cables with lugs already on the ends are available in most auto parts stores. Look for the starter switch to starter cables.

What about rebuilding the old alt?

Is there anything special about the 3g that would outweigh rebuilding the stock alt? I have a great shop here in VA Beach that can rebuild alt's and starters, and even rewind them for whatever you need (my audio buddies use them for insane sound system power). Just curious cause this is on my list of upgrades for my 88 LX.

Another vote for PA Performance. Dont mess with the one wire stuff, the 3G is simple and effective:
here is a writeup that shows before and after amperage results:
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2001/03/paperformance/index.shtml

cradicg said:

Is there anything special about the 3g that would outweigh rebuilding the stock alt? I have a great shop here in VA Beach that can rebuild alt's and starters, and even rewind them for whatever you need (my audio buddies use them for insane sound system power). Just curious cause this is on my list of upgrades for my 88 LX.

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See http://www.geocities.com/smithmonte/Auto/3G_130A_Alternator_Upgrade.htm - all the tech data you could ever want to know and the differences between the 3G upgrade and stock 2G alternators.

I had a Powermaster unit and I switched to the 3G from paperformance and havn't looked back. The 3G puts out more volts at idle than the powermaster which is the most important thing for me sitting at a stop light with an electric fan. The 8gauge wire that the powermaster comes with is a joke... so you probably should get a better one anyways(fused 4ga.). Stick with the 3G.
Kevin

jrichker, I'm still a bit fuzzy here...

While I have a fairly frim grasp on 12VDC basics, that article was a bit too geared toward engineers IMO. The jist of the article seems to be that a 2G alt only handles 60-75 amps, and that a 3G will handle 110-130. I also saw where some of the stock wires must be addressed sincle thier small guage can present fire hazards under new loads. Can you (or anybody) tell me in layman terms, why I could not just have my stock 2G rewound and rebuilt for 130amp capacity from a generator shop? I would of course have to address the upgrade of the old wires to handle the new loads, but that is easy. Thanks in advance.

Sicarius428 said:

I had a Powermaster unit and I switched to the 3G from paperformance and havn't looked back. The 3G puts out more volts at idle than the powermaster which is the most important thing for me sitting at a stop light with an electric fan. The 8gauge wire that the powermaster comes with is a joke... so you probably should get a better one anyways(fused 4ga.). Stick with the 3G.
Kevin

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My Powermaster came with a card saying mine put out 93amps at idle and 142amps max. How much is the Pa Performance one putting out being your saying its more? Also I hooked my Powermaster up to 3 wire and it works perfectly and never had a problem with it. I'll go ahead and vote Powermaster!

I went with a powermaster 160. It works great.

Hissin has explained the low charge I get when it is cold out. But this only happens when it is really cold (atleast really cold for Seattle). It seems to be an issue around 700-800rpm. Any higher and all is well.

I have had to rebuild it about 4 times in the last 8yrs. Seems that higher output alts can't handle much rpm.

I used car stereo cable for the power/ground wires. 1 or 0 gauge if I remember right.

jason

cradicg said:

While I have a fairly frim grasp on 12VDC basics, that article was a bit too geared toward engineers IMO. The jist of the article seems to be that a 2G alt only handles 60-75 amps, and that a 3G will handle 110-130. I also saw where some of the stock wires must be addressed sincle thier small guage can present fire hazards under new loads. Can you (or anybody) tell me in layman terms, why I could not just have my stock 2G rewound and rebuilt for 130amp capacity from a generator shop? I would of course have to address the upgrade of the old wires to handle the new loads, but that is easy. Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

The stock alternator does not have a large stud to put the power cable on. I am not sure how an alt shop would work around the 2G connection issue (so the two stock charge connectors dont get overloaded).

I would recommend doing a search under terms like:

*3G* or alternator upgrade

The wiring upgrade is quite simple, but it sounds like something that is plug and play might be more reassuring.

Good luck.

Blk91stang said:

My Powermaster came with a card saying mine put out 93amps at idle and 142amps max. How much is the Pa Performance one putting out being your saying its more? Also I hooked my Powermaster up to 3 wire and it works perfectly and never had a problem with it. I'll go ahead and vote Powermaster!

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With regards to the Powermaster card and 93 amps "at Idle"...what was the stated idle RPM?

The PA ALT I purchased indicated 90 amps at 900 RPM. It also indicated the performance (current) curve across the RPM band.

Devil's in the details.

I don't remember what my sheet said for my Powermaster but my autometer showed at idle(~900 rpm) about 11.5- 12 volts. I could have had a weak unit but overall I was not impressed for about the same price of the 3G. Even the fit and finish I was not too impressed with(black powdercoated). Again I may have had a bum alt but the 3G has really impressed me...
Kevin

A 3g will put out at least double or more amps at idle speed compared to a crappy 2g.

i did the 3g swap a couple months ago. let me first say, don't let the parts list or the articles intimidate you. it's really simple to do, but it does seem intimidating when your talking about your electrical system and such.

you can get a 3g alt from pa performance, you can also go to your local autozone and get one for a 94 or 95 mustang too. the advantage here is lifetime warranty, if it goes out you don't have to send it in any where for warranty, etc.....which is what i did, got a reman from auto zone, it will cost you about the same.

you really only need a few things, the alternator, the pa perfromance power wire kit, a heli coil kit for the bolt hole of the new alternator ( you can use a bolt and a nut) and there's also a stator wire plug you can purchase from 5.0 resto along with the pa power wire kit but it's optional.

from there, it's only a matter of removing the stock one, clearancing a bracket, and running the new power wire and making a couple small wiring changes, if you can wire in guages, or speakers, etc.......you can do this....it's really not that hard, there's just different ways of doing it, and many different articles that can be confusing, but it really is simple and the way to go because no matter what you do the stock power wire sucks, and the stock alternator sucks.......if you take the time to do it right once you'll be set for good...