Priced too high

matm347 · Mar 24, 2006

FadeToOne said:
I just talked to my dealer. He says they are now expecting the mark-up to bring the price up to $75k, which I will agree is far too much for a mustang.

I wonder if I'm able to sell my first spot in line...hehe

You'd better believe you can! I would ebay it with a starting bit of at least 5k, people who are going to pay $35k over sticker will gladly pay 5k or more. Obviously they have the money to waste.

JEAN · Mar 24, 2006

SVTdriver said:
Who's the person that says how many is enough to go around? And if they did build until no more people wanted them. Would you then be happy when the resale value was next to nothing? And if you think that Ford dealers are the only ones charging over MSRP. I've heard reports of Chevy dealers asking $20k over MSRP on the Z06.

Regular corvette get $ 1000 back. Z06 as MSRP price

351CJ · Mar 24, 2006

stangonline said:
Don't buy a "new" car based on resale value.

I hate to tell you this, but for the majority of people buying vehicles, resale value is a MAJOR consideration. Depreciation is the largest cost in owning a vehicle. The poor resale value of American built vehicles is the primary reason why Ford and GM are sinking.

SVTdriver · Mar 24, 2006

JEAN said:
Regular corvette get $ 1000 back. Z06 as MSRP price

Perhaps where you are at. But not the dealers near me.
http://www.leejohnson.com/new/corvette.htm
$64,115 for the regular Corvette.

oldimp · Mar 25, 2006

Money makers

I saw a Z06 at a local dealer maybe a month ago. It had a dealer markup of $16k as best I could figure from the sticker. The total was just shy of $86k and I don't know the MSRP. It was a fabulous car, though!

I think this car is going to be special for several reasons. It has "Shelby" on it! And even if he was not an integral part of the development, he has surely put his two cents in here and there, he promotes it at every major car show (I think!), he approves of the final product and he lends his name to it.

It is the first GT500 in the retro styling ('05). That means everything to me! The styling caused me to trade in my '04 GT for my '05 GT! The '04 had less than 6100 miles on it! My wife told me that I should get everything I wanted on that one because it would be the last (Nov '04). I told her then that it would be the last one I would want unless they put "Shelby" on the back of one. About three months later I saw the first pictures of the concept car. She understands and has been most supportive.

It is the most powerful production Mustang ever! I agree that it will not always hold that distinction, but it adds to the seductiveness of the car. I would have tried to buy one if it had been 350 hp or less!

I am weak on the history of the Shelby Mustangs, but it has been about 30-odd years since the last one, right? Old f-rts like me have dreamed of owning a car such as this for the same 30-odd years! This is really more than a dream coming true for me. My dream came true when I got the '04 GT, the rest has just been icing on the cake!

I hate that our price has to be in excess of the MSRP, but in looking around the internet, it is a lot lower than most prices! I saw one that sold for $32k over MSRP to someone in South Africa. Wow! That is approaching $75k total! Another bid out at $29k and never reached the sellers reserve price!

351CJ · Mar 25, 2006

The last Shelby Mustang was the 1970 model year.

Some argue that the last real Shelby Mustang was the 1967 model year as in 1968 they were softened up and the 1968 1969 and 1970 models were not built at the Shelby plant in CA but instead were built in MI by AO Smith Co.

JoeTrev · Mar 31, 2006

man i love the new mustang but im not willing to bend over for it. Prices WILL go down, just wait till 2008 if you MUST get it. I will never pay over msrp for a vehicle regardless of supply and demand economics. It just doesn't make any sense to pay over msrp. People are using resale value as an excuse to justify bending over for it, but man if you pay 25k over sticker in 07 and people pay 10k over in 2008(i believe it will be alot closer to msrp than that) your losing the diffrence in resale value right off the bat. Same thing happened (albiet on a much smaller scale) with the 05 stangs and 04 F150's. My unlce paid a markup for an 04 F150 and i paid 10k less for my 05, what a difference a year makes.If that isn't enough to convince you, the fact that the "First Year" Ford GT had a tremendous amount of recalls should. By classification, every one of those cursed cars would be a lemon. You are taking a risk here, especially when you take into consideration that the car isnt built by shelby, its really a SVT with shelby badges (maybe a few minor parts) and to top it off, NO OFFENSE, the thing IS A MUSTANG. This is supposed to be the working mans sports car, now thats all gone to hell becuase of the inflated price. Your STILL GETTING MUSTANG QUALITY HERE, and even tho it has gone up in recent years, corners have been cut and its pretty obvious when you realize that the car still uses a rear live axle, no spare, ect.. They keep feeding us with BS like its weight saving , yea right...its cost saving. Ford needs the profit, they should have invested more into the car and raised the MSRP on it. Use the money to make the vehicle on par with the corvette tech wise, and put a cap maybe 5k on dealer markups. If they wanted the cars to retain resale value, and they KNOW that they will be marked up to the 60's, they should have spent a little more on it, kept the profits and minimized inflation. They should have used this as an opportunity to build a quality mustang that would end the corvettes reign once and for all. This is NOT the direction ford should be taking with this product, man i love mustangs, and for now have tolerated ford, but enough is enough already....we should just voice our opinions as consumers and send them the message that we wont tolerate this by NOT PAYING THE MARKUP's. I'm giving this till 2008 and if its not under control im taking my buisiness elsewhere and getting a 2008 skyline....sry for the rant btw

SVTdriver · Mar 31, 2006

JoeTrev said:
man i love the new mustang but im not willing to bend over for it. Prices WILL go down, just wait till 2008 if you MUST get it. I will never pay over msrp for a vehicle regardless of supply and demand economics. It just doesn't make any sense to pay over msrp. People are using resale value as an excuse to justify bending over for it, but man if you pay 25k over sticker in 07 and people pay 10k over in 2008(i believe it will be alot closer to msrp than that) your losing the diffrence in resale value right off the bat. Same thing happened (albiet on a much smaller scale) with the 05 stangs and 04 F150's. My unlce paid a markup for an 04 F150 and i paid 10k less for my 05, what a difference a year makes.If that isn't enough to convince you, the fact that the "First Year" Ford GT had a tremendous amount of recalls should. By classification, every one of those cursed cars would be a lemon. You are taking a risk here, especially when you take into consideration that the car isnt built by shelby, its really a SVT with shelby badges (maybe a few minor parts) and to top it off, NO OFFENSE, the thing IS A MUSTANG. This is supposed to be the working mans sports car, now thats all gone to hell becuase of the inflated price. Your STILL GETTING MUSTANG QUALITY HERE, and even tho it has gone up in recent years, corners have been cut and its pretty obvious when you realize that the car still uses a rear live axle, no spare, ect.. They keep feeding us with BS like its weight saving , yea right...its cost saving. Ford needs the profit, they should have invested more into the car and raised the MSRP on it. Use the money to make the vehicle on par with the corvette tech wise, and put a cap maybe 5k on dealer markups. If they wanted the cars to retain resale value, and they KNOW that they will be marked up to the 60's, they should have spent a little more on it, kept the profits and minimized inflation. They should have used this as an opportunity to build a quality mustang that would end the corvettes reign once and for all. This is NOT the direction ford should be taking with this product, man i love mustangs, and for now have tolerated ford, but enough is enough already....we should just voice our opinions as consumers and send them the message that we wont tolerate this by NOT PAYING THE MARKUP's. I'm giving this till 2008 and if its not under control im taking my buisiness elsewhere and getting a 2008 skyline....sry for the rant btw

Ok I just have a few issues with this rant.
1. I assume you are a lawyer and have looked into Ford telling dealers how to price cars? Because everything I have heard says they can't tell them what to charge. My understanding is the dealer buys the car from Ford. And essentially resells it back to the customer.
2. Any year regardless of first or 23rd model year. Could have defects and recalls. Just because it happened to the GT does not mean it WILL happen to the GT500.
3. Corners cut. Well I am no expert driver. But with only modifications to the Ford designed suspension (Not a complete redesign of it). The mustang gt's have done pretty well in the races. They have gone against BMW and other great handling cars and beaten them. As far as the spare tire is concerned. In my opinion that's just Ford doing what nearly every owner does the minute it gets home. It's heavy and since almost every car uses a pizza cutter sized spare. I'm not sure it would handle the power. Most of those spares recommend not going over 55mph. And that's in cars with well under 475hp.
4. End corvettes reign. Are you serious? Do you even realize they are in 2 completely different classes. When was the last 4 seater corvette? While the mustang may not fit 4 people comfortably. I know for a fact it will fit 4 people in the rear seat alone. Try that in a vette. The Vette is fiberglass bodied and is supposed to be a sports car. Sportscars by definition are 2 person. Best case scenario the mustang is a sports coupe. The vette starts at $40k+. Do you REALLY think the gt mustang should start at $40k? Since the GT500 is a modified version of the gt. You can't exactly chop it down to 2 seats and fiberglass the body. Then it wouldn't be a mustang.

07SHELBYCOBRA · Apr 1, 2006

Well said SVTdriver.

JoeTrev · Apr 2, 2006

SVTdriver said:
Ok I just have a few issues with this rant.
1. I assume you are a lawyer and have looked into Ford telling dealers how to price cars? Because everything I have heard says they can't tell them what to charge. My understanding is the dealer buys the car from Ford. And essentially resells it back to the customer.
2. Any year regardless of first or 23rd model year. Could have defects and recalls. Just because it happened to the GT does not mean it WILL happen to the GT500.
3. Corners cut. Well I am no expert driver. But with only modifications to the Ford designed suspension (Not a complete redesign of it). The mustang gt's have done pretty well in the races. They have gone against BMW and other great handling cars and beaten them. As far as the spare tire is concerned. In my opinion that's just Ford doing what nearly every owner does the minute it gets home. It's heavy and since almost every car uses a pizza cutter sized spare. I'm not sure it would handle the power. Most of those spares recommend not going over 55mph. And that's in cars with well under 475hp.
4. End corvettes reign. Are you serious? Do you even realize they are in 2 completely different classes. When was the last 4 seater corvette? While the mustang may not fit 4 people comfortably. I know for a fact it will fit 4 people in the rear seat alone. Try that in a vette. The Vette is fiberglass bodied and is supposed to be a sports car. Sportscars by definition are 2 person. Best case scenario the mustang is a sports coupe. The vette starts at $40k+. Do you REALLY think the gt mustang should start at $40k? Since the GT500 is a modified version of the gt. You can't exactly chop it down to 2 seats and fiberglass the body. Then it wouldn't be a mustang.

I really enjoyed reading your follow-up post and you make a few good points...

Ok let me answer a few of your questions...

1) Just becuase car dealers DO in fact resell their vehicles after they buy them from ford does not mean that ford can't take measures to gain from the mark-ups. Let me explain, a anylist would project the markup anywhere from 20-25k meaning that the car would sell for a "Street" price of 60-65k. This is the average that a consumer would pay for the vehicle. If ford wants thier cut they could raise the msrp to 50-55k to put it in corvette range. The dealer would be in the position where charging an extra 20-25k over the dealer inflated msrp would be ridiculous. They know that just becuase the msrp has increased, the projected "street" consumer price has not. The dealers would in turn be limited to the amount the same price of 60-65k and Ford would effectivly cut the dealers inflation profits in half.

2) Its a widely known FACT that first year cars have MORE defects than SECOND year cars. AND YES , it WILL happen to the gt500, just as it has happened with ALMOST EVERY CAR EVER MADE. Odds are that the car will have defects, and the statisticlly speaking, the first model year will have MORE than the subsequent model years.

3) Theres more cost cutting going on than just the rear axles. For the money, the materials are cheap. Especially when you start comparing it to other vehicles in the inflated "60-65k" range.

4) I was talking about the corvette vs. mustang muscle car rivalry...has nothing to do with number of seats lol..

anyways like i mentioned before i really enjoyed reading your post and hope to hear back from you...
Cheers, Joe

SVTdriver · Apr 2, 2006

JoeTrev said:
I really enjoyed reading your follow-up post and you make a few good points...

Ok let me answer a few of your questions...

1) Just becuase car dealers DO in fact resell their vehicles after they buy them from ford does not mean that ford can't take measures to gain from the mark-ups. Let me explain, a anylist would project the markup anywhere from 20-25k meaning that the car would sell for a "Street" price of 60-65k. This is the average that a consumer would pay for the vehicle. If ford wants thier cut they could raise the msrp to 50-55k to put it in corvette range. The dealer would be in the position where charging an extra 20-25k over the dealer inflated msrp would be ridiculous. They know that just becuase the msrp has increased, the projected "street" consumer price has not. The dealers would in turn be limited to the amount the same price of 60-65k and Ford would effectivly cut the dealers inflation profits in half.

2) Its a widely known FACT that first year cars have MORE defects than SECOND year cars. AND YES , it WILL happen to the gt500, just as it has happened with ALMOST EVERY CAR EVER MADE. Odds are that the car will have defects, and the statisticlly speaking, the first model year will have MORE than the subsequent model years.

3) Theres more cost cutting going on than just the rear axles. For the money, the materials are cheap. Especially when you start comparing it to other vehicles in the inflated "60-65k" range.

4) I was talking about the corvette vs. mustang muscle car rivalry...has nothing to do with number of seats lol..

anyways like i mentioned before i really enjoyed reading your post and hope to hear back from you...
Cheers, Joe

It is always nice to debate with someone who doesn't resort to child like retorts.
1. Let's say Ford did raise the MSRP to try to compensate for dealer markup. I'd bet money many people on this and other mustang forums. Would cry foul over it being that much more expensive. You only have to look as far as the other posts. Where people are saying over $40k is too much for this car. And raising the MSRP may or may not stop dealers from trying to tack on an additional $20k.

2. While it is quite common for first year vehicles to have more problems. Last time I check the 98 cobra had more TSB's for it than the 97 did. And the changes made would have been to fix existing problems.

3. Yes there is cost cutting going on. But it has to be done. With what is going on at Ford right now. If they don't cut costs they could lose everything. And sure we may not like it. But it is reality. Far too many people think domestic cars are overpriced. And having employee pricing and all the other rebates don't help the situation at all. Now everyone who didn't get that price thinks they were ripped off.

4. The problem with it is simple. the mustang was never meant to compete with the vette. That was supposed to be the thunderbirds original job. But since the t-bird has gone the way of the dodo bird. And GM has given up on the camaro (Yes it may be back. But I'm not holding my breath for GM doing it right). There is very little domestic competition for the mustang. And one just happens to be the vette.

FadeToOne · Apr 3, 2006

I officially declined my right to purchase a GT500 on Saturday morning. My dealer set the price to $75k and said they had 6 more people in line. I hope the other 6 told them to screw off like I did

2001 Yellow GT · Apr 3, 2006

FadeToOne said:
I officially declined my right to purchase a GT500 on Saturday morning. My dealer set the price to $75k and said they had 6 more people in line. I hope the other 6 told them to screw off like I did

I would just find another dealer somewhere where people cannot afford a $45K Mustang. There are 4000 Ford dealers out there

FadeToOne · Apr 5, 2006

2001 Yellow GT said:
I would just find another dealer somewhere where people cannot afford a $45K Mustang. There are 4000 Ford dealers out there

meh...at this point I'd rather watch the ****storm than try to be a part of it... i'll save my money

The Fang · Apr 5, 2006

Well imo the new shelby looks too much like an 05-06 mustang, so the bottom line will be if ur willing to pay 30k more for 150 more hp then gophortit.

MarSaleenMustan · Apr 5, 2006

351CJ said:
I hate to tell you this, but for the majority of people buying vehicles, resale value is a MAJOR consideration. Depreciation is the largest cost in owning a vehicle. The poor resale value of American built vehicles is the primary reason why Ford and GM are sinking.

yeah but the majority of the people you speak of are buying accords/camarys, Cars like Mustangs, corvettes, ect are bought because of performance, only few, none risk takers buy them as investments... if you want an investment car get a 60's jag, original Shelby Cobras, or cars alike, they've been PROVEN to hold value and appreciate with time.

Lets not go too far, the ford GTs were selling at 250K+ when they first came out, now theres some dealers selling at or bellow sticker. Unfortunately though theres a ton more people able and probably willing to pay 60K for a Shelby GT500 than there were to pay 250K for a Ford GT

GNN60GT500 · Apr 6, 2006

In a few years youll be able to pick up a nice used Shelby for $30,000-$35,000 thats whats Im going to do-

These cars will depreciate just like any other new car-

Look at the Ford GT- you had to pay double MSRP when they first came out and now you can get them at MSRP-

Same thing will happen with these cars as well-

Yes, They will go up in value- but not for 40 years-

In the meantime- these cars will depreciate-

Just like Cobras- Just like Saleens, Just Like Roushs, just like Lightnings- exc

and when Ford launches the next Shelby- these will all drop in value-

Dont buy this car because you think it will be worth more in 10 years-

Buy this car because you are going to enjoy driving it for the next 10 years-

351CJ · Apr 6, 2006

MarSaleenMustan said:
yeah but the majority of the people you speak of are buying accords/camarys, Cars like Mustangs, corvettes, ect are bought because of performance, only few, none risk takers buy them as investments...

Isn't that the crux of the problem with Ford?

In the last 5 years Ford has lost 8% market share while Toyota is now the largest auto company in the world and will soon be #1 in the US too.

Only so many people are going to buy Mustangs and Corvettes. If Ford sold only Mustangs and GM sold only Corvettes they would have gone out of business 30 years ago.

SVTdriver · Apr 6, 2006

351CJ said:
Isn't that the crux of the problem with Ford?

In the last 5 years Ford has lost 8% market share while Toyota is now the largest auto company in the world and will soon be #1 in the US too.

Only so many people are going to buy Mustangs and Corvettes. If Ford sold only Mustangs and GM sold only Corvettes they would have gone out of business 30 years ago.

Or they would have become like Saleen and Roush. High priced limited build cars.

MarSaleenMustan · Apr 7, 2006

351CJ said:
Only so many people are going to buy Mustangs and Corvettes. If Ford sold only Mustangs and GM sold only Corvettes they would have gone out of business 30 years ago.

that assesement i agree with, but thats not the point of my responce to yours. I meant to say that people looking at those cars arent generally concerned about "resale value", and if they are either they do everything in life with a business like mentality or they're arent true car enthusiasts. Just my opinion.

Priced too high

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