Pro-M vs Stand alone. Looking for information.

maisonmays22 · Oct 29, 2019

I am in the process of dropping a 408w into my 88 fox. I understand the dynamics of speed density and that the stock ecu will not work. I ordered a A9L ecu and have it ready to install with a MAF. However, I am going to be running 42lb injectors and have heard negative things about calibrated MAF sensors such as Pro-M. I have never tuned an engine and Microsquirt scares the out of me. I guess my question is, should i gamble and use a Pro-M calibrated MAF to 42lb injectors, or should I suck it up and buy a tuner and just learn the and run without a MAF setup? Those who have experience with both options I would love to hear what you have to say.

a91what · Oct 29, 2019

I am a bit biased, I tune MS stuff all the time and find that it is not that difficult.. however I have years of experience doing so. I also have a small business tuning cars with MS and doing classes teaching people how to tune.

With the above said for an NA application with an A9L and a good MAF [like the Pro-M] you should not have an issue getting the car to run decently even without a tune, assuming the cam is not massive.

a91what · Oct 29, 2019

Oh and the MS... CAN run MAF without issue.. guys just dont do it as often. I actually prefer to tune with MAF for an NA application.

Noobz347 · Oct 29, 2019

Bottom Line Up-Front:

Keep the Mass Air Sensor, Ditch the A9L (easy sell)
Buy a Mega-Squirt and never look back ( @a91what ) is a good source of info.

Longer version: There is more of a difference between 19lb injectors and 42lb injectors than just the size of the orifice. A Calibrated meter will get you [close] and it is likely that the car will run decent enough to get you to a tuner without damaging anything (no guarantees however). I drove a Fox nearly 300 miles in this condition (with an eye on my wideband AFR meter).

Tuning woke it TF up and made it stop running pig rich all the time.

Noobz347 · Oct 29, 2019

Lookey there... He even beat me to the thread!

maisonmays22 · Oct 29, 2019

It has a moderate cam in it M-6250-B303*. but it also has Gt40x heads with 64cc chambers.

maisonmays22 · Oct 29, 2019

So how easy is it as a beginner to start using these stand alone kits? I have a laptop and I know I will need a wideband sensor. I just dont know anything about fuel tables or ignition tables.

maisonmays22 · Oct 29, 2019

Will the tune that comes with the Micro that is set for a stock 5.0 be easily modified to fit the new parameters?

a91what · Oct 29, 2019

NA= Naturally Aspirated

The ecu will come loaded with a base tune if you decide to run a MS.

Again i offer tuning services and lots of free advice through this forum to get guys like yourself started

B303 has a choppy idle but in a 408W it will act much tamer than in a 302.

maisonmays22 · Oct 29, 2019

a91what said:
NA= Naturally Aspirated

The ecu will come loaded with a base tune if you decide to run a MS.

Again i offer tuning services and lots of free advice through this forum to get guys like yourself started

B303 has a choppy idle but in a 408W it will act much tamer than in a 302.

Okay. I will more than likely end up getting a MS setup because of all the options. For right now i will end up running a calibrated MAF since i already have all the parts for it. Thank you for the info guys. Im new to Stangnet but I plan on being on here a lot.

Noobz347 · Oct 29, 2019

maisonmays22 said:
I have a laptop and I know I will need a wideband sensor.

You will need more than just a sensor if using the A9L.

maisonmays22 · Oct 29, 2019

Noobz347 said:
You will need more than just a sensor if using the A9L.

I ordered the conversion harness from Pro-M. Is there something else that I am missing

a91what · Oct 29, 2019

You will need a WB controller, I suggest saving money and getting the best.. get a spartan2 from 14point7.com

dont waste your money on the expensive fancy names they dont work as well as the spartan2, period.

This will be a must if you plan on getting the MS in the future, or you can install it now with an optional in car gauge to see what the AFR is reading.

maisonmays22 · Oct 29, 2019

a91what said:
You will need a WB controller, I suggest saving money and getting the best.. get a spartan2 from 14point7.com

dont waste your money on the expensive fancy names they dont work as well as the spartan2, period.

This will be a must if you plan on getting the MS in the future, or you can install it now with an optional in car gauge to see what the AFR is reading.

Okay, the sensor they sell at 14point7 is also cheaper than the one i was originally looking at anyways. Sweet

Noobz347 · Oct 29, 2019

I have used an Innovate LM-1 (not sure they make these anymore) for 18 years without a hiccup.

maisonmays22 · Oct 29, 2019

Noobz347 said:
I have used an Innovate LM-1 (not sure they make these anymore) for 18 years without a hiccup.

So I was under the impression that the wideband only read the AFR for information only. Does it act as a sensor for the Closed loop process too?

Noobz347 · Oct 29, 2019

maisonmays22 said:
So I was under the impression that the wideband only read the AFR for information only. Does it act as a sensor for the Closed loop process too?

That depends entirely on how you implement it. My LM-1 feeds my Anderson PMS (the 'tuner' that uses my A9L as a 'piggy-back).

maisonmays22 · Oct 29, 2019

Noobz347 said:
That depends entirely on how you implement it. My LM-1 feeds my Anderson PMS (the 'tuner' that uses my A9L as a 'piggy-back).

Okay, so with the controller that ill buy, is that all I need to use it properly?

Noobz347 · Oct 29, 2019

maisonmays22 said:
Okay, so with the controller that ill buy, is that all I need to use it properly?

At minimum, you need a controller and sensor.

Spartan: https://www.14point7.com/products/spartan-2-oem
Innovate: https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products.php Look at the LM-2 and LC-2.

The obvious thing to consider is whether you want a unit with an integrated display. I opted for the display when I bought my LM-1 because it made it super easy to calibrate the 5 volt output of the LM-1 to the Anderson PMS. I just had to scale the table until the 5 volt signal and lambda readout, matched.

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