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04YELLOWGT · Feb 24, 2007

LaserRed01GT said:
It's likely unrelated to the car dying, but does the noise sound like it could be coming from the trans or torque converter?

I dont think so but I dont know. I had a friend ride in it to day and asked him if he heard anything and he said no. I keep wondering if its just my exhaust note at that rpm. He said all he could hear was my exhaust. It did die again to day but did not make the noise which is good. Like I said the car runs strong and fine, its just the idle is a little off and the noise which I didnt hear/notice today.

Also do you guys think its worth waiting to get 1000 miles on the engine before I get it tuned. Im going to do my best to but we are getting hit with an ice storm as I type this and dont I know when the roads will be clear enough to get the car out. I figured Ill have at least 500 miles if not more but I dont know if Ill reach 1000 by the 9th.

LaserRed01GT · Feb 24, 2007

The rings are broken in during the first 20 miles of driving. You could have tuned it right after that. Who told you to drive 1000 miles then get it tuned?

04YELLOWGT · Feb 25, 2007

VT. lol Thats what it says on their website and I even asked them and they said its best to put 1000 miles on it.

jivepepper · Feb 25, 2007

04YELLOWGT said:
Thats what I think my problem is, Im just THINKING I heard a knock/tap but its not really there. Hopefuly thats the case.

Also Jive how many miles did you put on the new block before you had your car tuned.

About 650 by the time I got to the tuners.

Trav4011 · Feb 25, 2007

LaserRed01GT said:
The rings are broken in during the first 20 miles of driving. You could have tuned it right after that. Who told you to drive 1000 miles then get it tuned?

The rings may be seated.. but, the bores are still rough at 20 miles. It's best to limit engine RPM, and big power for the first few hundred miles. With a rough bore, and high piston speed, you create a lot of friction/heat. This can expand the piston (especially true on a low silicone alloy forged piston), and cause skirt wear/galling. I usually go 150-200 miles before I attempt to make any sort of high RPM/big power pulls.. The best way (I've found) to break in a set of rings and the bores, is to do low RPM/high load bursts.. like.. lugging the motor around at 1500-2000rpm in 5th gear for 5-10 seconds or so.. then, vary the RPM under light load for a while.. and repeat.

04YELLOWGT · Feb 25, 2007

Thats what Ive been doing varying the rpms and loads while breaking it in.

I figure the engine should have 500-600 miles on it by the time I get to the tuner.

LaserRed01GT · Feb 25, 2007

Trav4011 said:
The rings may be seated.. but, the bores are still rough at 20 miles. It's best to limit engine RPM, and big power for the first few hundred miles. With a rough bore, and high piston speed, you create a lot of friction/heat. This can expand the piston (especially true on a low silicone alloy forged piston), and cause skirt wear/galling. I usually go 150-200 miles before I attempt to make any sort of high RPM/big power pulls.. The best way (I've found) to break in a set of rings and the bores, is to do low RPM/high load bursts.. like.. lugging the motor around at 1500-2000rpm in 5th gear for 5-10 seconds or so.. then, vary the RPM under light load for a while.. and repeat.

I'm sorry, but not one thing in your post is true. The cylinder walls are finished to a specific Ra (rougness average) during what is called the plateau hone (brush). This establishes the "cross-hatch", a specific RA, and more specifically RPK which is the average peak height. An average surface finish of 15 to 20 Ra is typically used for moly-faced rings. Anything less than 12 Ra can result in glazed cylinders and the rings may not properly seat, especialy with today's rings that run a smaller radial thickness, and especially if a "napier" second ring is used. The rings have just as much metal removed from their ring face as the peaks on the cross-hatch on the cylinder walls. 99% of this occurs within the first 20 miles. After that the full tune can be applied. There is no such thing as having to wait 1000, 500, or even 100 miles before you fully tune the car. The 1000 mile break-in procedure addresses the number and type of oil changes, and the load and piston speed placed on the motor. As soon as the rings seat after about 20 miles, it can be strapped to the dyno.

Besides that, unless specifically requested for a 2618 piston, most forged street shortblocks will have a forged 4032 piston with a much higher silicon content than a forged 2618 piston. This gives the 4032 about a 15-20% less coefficienct of thermal expansion which means it can be run as tight as .0015"-.0025" depending on the piston manufacturers recommendation. 2618's have to be run with much looser tolerances.

Stan Weiss · Feb 25, 2007

What am I missing here. A fresh / newly built engine is put on an engine dyno. It usually gets a couple of warm up pulls (light load) to seat the rings check for leaks and other things and then is ready for a full pull after that you should be able to do a leak down test and see what you have.

LaserRed01GT · Feb 25, 2007

Stan Weiss said:
What am I missing here. A fresh / newly built engine is put on an engine dyno. It usually gets a couple of warm up pulls (light load) to seat the rings check for leaks and other things and then is ready for a full pull after that you should be able to do a leak down test and see what you have.

You and I both know the rings will fully seat in just a matter of minutes, but the 20 mile deal is more or less just a little extra insurance when you are dealing with a customer's car. I will fire up the fresh motor and let it get up to temp (oil temp) and then just take it for a drive in town and back (15-20 miles), then put her on the rollers and get'er done. I just tell everyone not to go WOT for any extended time until after the 3rd oil change and I can run a leakdown test and see how well the rings seated.

I have talked to Scott over at VT, and he like a decent guy and seemed pretty knowledgeable, and I highly doubt he told anyone they had to drive 1000 miles before the motor could be tuned.

Gearbanger 101 · Feb 25, 2007

LaserRed01GT said:
I have talked to Scott over at VT, and he like a decent guy and seemed pretty knowledgeable, and I highly doubt he told anyone they had to drive 1000 miles before the motor could be tuned.

Maybe he tells people that to keep them from beating the supreme piss out of their engine right off the bat. . Too many people automatically assume forged, means indestructible and just have at it.

It may also be a case of suggesting the 1000-miles on the engine, to ensure other problems not related specifically to the short block don't rear their ugly head. (the owner forgot to install a clamp on a coolant hose missed a bolt in the torque converter, etc, etc). Last thing they need is for some jackass dropping the hammer from day one and breaking something unrelated to their build due to their own negligence, then turning around and blaming the failure on them. Telling them to put 1000-miles on the block would probably make them more aware and or cautious with the entire vehicle for the first while.

LaserRed01GT · Feb 26, 2007

Gearbanger 101 said:
Maybe he tells people that to keep them from beating the supreme piss out of their engine right off the bat. . Too many people automatically assume forged, means indestructible and just have at it.

It may also be a case of suggesting the 1000-miles on the engine, to ensure other problems not related specifically to the short block don't rear their ugly head. (the owner forgot to install a clamp on a coolant hose missed a bolt in the torque converter, etc, etc). Last thing they need is for some jackass dropping the hammer from day one and breaking something unrelated to their build due to their own negligence, then turning around and blaming the failure on them. Telling them to put 1000-miles on the block would probably make them more aware and or cautious with the entire vehicle for the first while.

Yeah, but still there is no reason to drive around with the car untuned for that long. Especially if major modifications have been done, you stand a greater risk of hurting something being untuned than someone running it hard. It's common procedure to strap a fresh engine to the rollers and tune it. There is just not any reason not to.

But yes, there are some clowns out there who find it easy to screw things up and pass the blame onto others.

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