Questions about 351 blocks

Grn92LX · Jun 23, 2004

I'm thinking about doing a 351 based motor. I have a few questions. 1) i noticed that the older blocks are 2 peice rear main seals. What does that mean?? Pro's and cons? 2) I heard some 351's are 9.2 deck and some are 9.5, obviously the 9.5 is taller. Which years would have the 9.2 deck?? Reason I ask is I want to do a 351 w/o needing a cowl hood if possible. i KNOW this has been done before. I'm planning on hpm 3/4" drop mounts (where can i get these?) and using the shorter deck block. 3) What efi intake manifold could i use that is short? I saw a pic of the new tfs box intake and that sumbitch sits high! I'm gonna be using a roller cam, so i'll need those linked lifters, there about $400 or so i believe?

I'm also curious if you guys think im better off buying the block and 4340 forged rotating assembly and having it built/machined at a local machine shop or buying a shortblock from a well known place? Which would be cheaper? I'm planning on a 408 most likely. Theres a machine shop a block away from my house, i've used them before for milling my TFS heads and they seemed fair. I might go there this week and get price quotes. If I have a virgin 351 block, what work is required to get it ready for a 408 rotating assembly?? Thanks for the help guys!!

Mike

408stroker5.0 · Jun 23, 2004

2 Piece Rear Seal pretty much explain's it all.... It a 2 Piece Seal. Later Block's contain a one peace rear main which is kind of handy as they do a better job of sealing and the seal does last longer when compared to a 2pce. The block to get though for a nice Stroker Windsor is a 69' Block. They are overall a stronger and thicker block especially in the main caps when compared to later blocks. And yes they are a 9.2" Deck Height and contain a 2pce rear seal which isn't that big of a deal. Later 351W block's are a 9.5 Deck Height but the difference is so minor that you woudn't notice a difference between the two block's when it comes to hood clearence. Hood Clearence will be very tight even with the drop mount's.... You may need a cowl. Overall if you can score a 69' Block go for it by all means, but don't be afraid of later 1pce block's either. They can still handle some decent power as well. For the longer stroke the block will require notching as well. Keep in mind know matter what block you use your going to want to get a good quality main cap girdle as well (D.S.S., Probe, Canton etc.)
AS for roller cam, I belive 95' and up are roller compatible right out of the factory. Earlier block's will require the link style roller lifter's or Comp's Retro Fit Kit which uses a spider to retain the lifter's (Cheaper).

I could go on and on, but I'll keep it simple for now. If you got anymore question's just post and hopefully I can help you out.

Grn92LX · Jun 23, 2004

Thanks! Any idea when the 9.5" deck blocks came out and what year 1 piece seals started? Is it possible to get a 9.2" deck block with a 1 piece seal? If so what year? I'm looking to make about 425-450 to the wheels and not rev past 6200. I'll be using the link lifters if I go with an older block.

mike

408stroker5.0 · Jun 23, 2004

All 9.2 deck block's unfortunatly use a 2 piece rear main seal. Not a big, big deal as the benefit's of the 69' Block outweigh the disadvantage of having to use a 2pce seal. I run a 69' Block and I havn't had a problem with the seal yet. Just insure it's installed carefully and proparly and there won't be any problems.I can't remember what year Ford switched the 351W to a 1pce seal (Sorry). In the 80's I believe.
500HP at the flywheel under 6200RPM wont be a hard goal to reach with a 408 if a good combo is done up. Streetable wont be a problem either if you go with a setup say like mine or similar (See Sig) (You could actually go even more extreme),infact I drive mine on the street all the time. Good luck with your build up, and keep us posted man.

rbohm · Jun 23, 2004

on block spec's
351w
69-71 9.48"
72-up 9.5"

351c
9.2" all years

351m/400
10.3" all years

there is NO 351w that used a 9.2" deck hieght. as far as one piece rear main seals, i think they started around 1985 or so. but you can mod any early 351w block to a one piece seal with a little machine work, the oil slinger on the crank needs machining, as does the block. a competent machinest can handle the job for a few dollars.

408stroker5.0 · Jun 23, 2004

Oops!! Made A Mistake.... 9.48 is correct man. 9.2 was actually the deck height on SVO 351W Block's I believe.

Grn92LX · Jun 23, 2004

OK, I went to the machine shop today for prices. Its a block away Here are the prices, remember this is NY prices LOL:

Boil block - 85
R & R cam bearings - 40
R & R block hardware - 40
magnaflux block - 130
bore & hone with torque plate - 335
preassemble & notch block - 350
deck block - 140
balance complete assembly - 325
assemble wash block and parts - 100
assemble shortblock - 575

He gave me a price on forged scat rotating assembly (im pretty sure its the 9000 kit) for 1300. I will spend a few extra and get the 4340 scat kit. I can get everything through him. Probably order it online though. The guy was very nice and honest. He explained what everything was to me and why it should be done. I added it up and looks like its gonna cost about $4,000 for the full shortblock with a girdle, little more actually for oil pan, pump and shaft. What do you fella's think??

Mike

5.0 HOtrain · Jun 23, 2004

If the guy seems nice/fair and you can check out some of the work he's done then go for it. Sweet thing is if you have problems he's right down the street from you, not in another state. What about top end, any plans? Go with a Canton pan/pickup if you're going to run a girdle. Email me with any questions, I'll try to answer them for you, fwiw, I run the link bar lifters. With zero lash no hint of vavle float @6800 on the dyno.
mike.

408stroker5.0 · Jun 23, 2004

Mike.... your getting up to 6800RPM with a Hydraulic Roller???? That is very impressive!

Grn92LX I'd say go for it man. If the guy seem's like he know's what he's talking about and has a good rep then your set. 5.0HOTrain is on the money when it come's to oil pan's.... go with a Canton. Word of advise, Stay away from Milodon.... I used there setup on my 408 and wish I never had. The Pan was a POS and very poorly built. I really wish I had went with a Canton.
As for Head's..... Can Anyone Say AFR's!!!???

Grn92LX · Jun 24, 2004

Looks like I should try a few other local machine shops. That guy was very nice but I could probably save like $500 if I shop around, but then again, this is NY prices. I have a chance to buy a virgin 71 351 block. Theres some rust in the cylinder bores, but it looks ok. Guys asking $200 I beleive. Worth it? Here are the pics the guy sent: http://www.netsnapshot.com/b?ACCOUNT=864&KEY=3

Thanks for the advice and help guys!! Much appriciated!

Mike

5.0 HOtrain · Jun 24, 2004

Motor made peak at 6500, but was pulled up to 6800 w/no float. I first went with a moroso pan, but had too much interference with the girdle. I used the probe girdle. As for heads, i'm a little TFS "R" biased, but you cant go wrong with AFR's. I loved the 165's I had on the 302.

5.0 HOtrain · Jun 24, 2004

Grn92LX said:
Looks like I should try a few other local machine shops. That guy was very nice but I could probably save like $500 if I shop around, but then again, this is NY prices. I have a chance to buy a virgin 71 351 block. Theres some rust in the cylinder bores, but it looks ok. Guys asking $200 I beleive. Worth it? Here are the pics the guy sent: http://www.netsnapshot.com/b?ACCOUNT=864&KEY=3

Thanks for the advice and help guys!! Much appriciated!

Mike

Some rust in the bores is ok, just make sure it's a standard bore if you can get a hold of some calipers to check it. Get is sonic checked too, ask Rick91GT about his experience trying to buy an older block. I really lucked out with my 69' block. My parents have a bunch of older mustangs and they had a block they said I could have.
mike.

Grn92LX · Jun 24, 2004

Mike, he says its a standard bore and it has no machine work done to it. Its a 71 block. What do you guys think??

Rick 91GT · Jun 24, 2004

5.0 HOtrain said:
Some rust in the bores is ok, just make sure it's a standard bore if you can get a hold of some calipers to check it. Get is sonic checked too, ask Rick91GT about his experience trying to buy an older block. I really lucked out with my 69' block. My parents have a bunch of older mustangs and they had a block they said I could have.
mike.

#1 was a 351W that supposedly ran, stock bore, well once I got it apart I found a melted piston, trashed crank and rids, and it was alreadt .040 over! The guy was great and returned my money and even came and picked up the motor.

#2 was another 74 shortblock I bought from a guy in NY said it was perfect, motor turned over nice and smooth, oil coated cylinders so no rust and the bores were said to be in really good shape. Looked great in the pics!

Well it showed up and the bores had a nasty lip on top needed atleast a .040 to clean up, found the rear of the block was cracked as well...cost me over $220 to get the damn thing and you know what, he wouldn't return my calls, e-mails ar anything and all I wanted was the $125 I paid for the shortblock, I wan;t even after the $100 it cost me in shipping. I then decided unless I could put my own hands on one and see it all before cash exchanged I wasn't doing it unless I knew the person.

I found the 74 block I have for the 408 (which is all FOR SALE, BRAND NEW never ran) local guy let me take it to the machine shop and have it tanked and inspected before I paid him. Cost me $80 for the block/caps.

You really need to look at the lip at the top of the cylinders and check them for taper, wouln't be bad to see how square the block is either.

Grn92LX · Jun 24, 2004

Rick, how much you asking for your block? How does the one i'm looking at look from the pics I posted??

Rick 91GT · Jun 24, 2004

Grn92LX said:
Rick, how much you asking for your block? How does the one i'm looking at look from the pics I posted??

At this point I am not going to part the block out, it was machined to the 408 assembly I have, along with the DSS girdle. Here http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/615936/5

Be prepared it gets expensive in a hurry... As Ed Curtis told me "take what you think it will cost, double it and add a grand" and I tell you that is the truth.

Grn92LX · Jun 24, 2004

Rick, PM me a price for everything with an assembled shortblock. Will this make a good street car motor? I'd have to lower the compression for pump gas use.

Mike

5.0 HOtrain · Jun 24, 2004

Grn92LX said:
I'd have to lower the compression for pump gas use.

Mike

I cant seem to get to Rick's page, but I run 11.25:1 fwiw, but with the TFS combustion chamber I am able to make the power mine made at only 29* total timing.
mike.

5.0 HOtrain · Jun 24, 2004

Rick 91GT said:
Be prepared it gets expensive in a hurry... As Ed Curtis told me "take what you think it will cost, double it and add a grand" and I tell you that is the truth.

AMEN to that brother

Rick 91GT · Jun 24, 2004

Mike, currently with a .050 gasket, 60cc head you'd be 12.4:1, 61cc would give 12.2:1 with a 70cc head you would have a 11:1

Really depends what combo you are going to build, I'll make you a really good deal though if your interested.

Questions about 351 blocks

Grn92LX

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