quick questions for the welding experts

voodooRunner · Nov 13, 2009

It looks like I have to learn this invaluable skill if I'm going to get my Stang where I want it to be. So where should a rookie begin? What are the most common types of welds found in these cars? What equipment should I be looking at? Recommended websites or books?

For starters, I would like to patch a panel in the trunk (in front of tank) and replace one of the floorpans.

Thanks for your help!
VR

golf4283 · Nov 13, 2009

subscribing to this thread. I'd like to get into welding as well.

daddy oth · Nov 13, 2009

i had the same rust spot in the trunk of my '66 coupe what i did was removed the gas tank cut the rust spot away(around tank mounting area) and weld 18ga. mild steel plate in its place and mount the gas tank from the bottom

i used lincoln welder wire feed mig welding that into your regular home outlet should do the job

hope this help

Hack · Nov 13, 2009

Get a small 110 volt MIG welder set up for gas and go to the library for a book on how to use it. I have some welding books, but I looked at them once and haven't gone back to them, so they just sit on the shelf.

If you aren't a book person, the newer MIGs are really easy to use. You could just teach yourself from the manual that comes with the welder. Buy some extra sheet metal of the same thickness you'll be welding somewhere local to practice before welding on your car. Make sure you disconnect the battery before you weld so you don't fry any electronic ignition parts - if you've put them on your car.

I bought a Hobart 5 or 6 years ago. I think it's made by Miller. IMO you should stay with a USA brand name, because you want the thing to work for years in the future. I love my Hobart and it only cost around $450 IIRC. You can weld up to 1/4 inch supposedly, but I've never had to do anything that large. It works great for the thicknesses of metal I've ever had to work on. It doesn't take that much to learn.

The main thing is to get the metal nice and clean, get a tight joint, and figure out your settings (the manual with the welder will have that info). Expect that on thin sheet metal you'll have to use a technique of zap-pause-zap-pause, etc. Otherwise even on the lowest setting you'll burn through.

You can't just weld a long bead on sheet metal anyway without warping it. You want to jump around and give it time to cool. Not so much on a floor pan, but I hope that gives you the idea.

Oh, the other thing is to really take your time making sure the metal fits right before you weld it in. You'll need some vice grip style clamps and you can use Clecos to help get the metal clamped in place. I hope that's helpful.

2+2GT · Nov 13, 2009

When he says Vise Grip, these are the ones. There are many styles, depending on how deep the reach is needed.

You'll also need to scrape that textured paint out of the trunk of your fastback. It should be painted glossy body color.

wicked93gs · Nov 13, 2009

no...I disagree, get the biggest MIG you can afford, this will pay off in the end, I have a stupid little 110v mig that is worthless for anything but sheet metal....its almost worthless for that too...most of my welding(sheet metal or not) I end up using an arc welder for, I'm not an expert in welding by any means, but I have learned you dont cheap out, its a waste of money...and a 220v welder is preferrable over a 110 anyway, I'm sure you have a 220 outlet somewhere in the house available...its easy enough to make an extension cord

Bullitt · Nov 14, 2009

wicked93gs said:
...its easy enough to make an extension cord

Be very careful if you end up using and extension cord with a welder. If the cord gets "warm", it's undersized. Make sure to check the amperage on the welder and on the cord before you weld otherwise you're asking for trouble.

zookeeper · Nov 14, 2009

I've used a 110v mig before and was surprised at how well it worked. The one I used even had the flux-core wire (no gas) and laid down a very nice bead. But for sheetmetal work, you're not going to be laying down any beads anyway. What you have to do to keep from burning through is to make a series of tack-welds, skipping from end-to-end until they touch. If I could offer some actual welding advice, I'd say that NOTHING is more important than practice. Weld scraps together, play with the settings, weld at odd angles, weld, weld, weld. Another tip is to get an auto-darkening hood and remember to always watch the puddle, even if it's a tack. To get good penetration, I like to weld on the verge of blowing through. Look around and you'll see most of the do it yourself guys have welds that simply lay on top of the metal. This is no good for anything, turn up the heat a touch, and when your practicing, turn the part over when you're done and you should be able to see your entire weld from the backside.

68Blue302Coupe · Nov 14, 2009

Man you read my mind. I have been looking around for welding classes and at basic equipment but don't know where to start. Several years ago I bought a 110v wire fed welder but just could not get the hang of it. Admittedly, I was working in a VERY small garage and did not have a lot of opportunity to practice. But I kept burning holes in the sheet metal. I sold it a few years ago but want to give welding another try.

I want something that can handle repairs on quarter panels, doors, floor pan patching, and maybe some small frame patches / reinforcements.

Novice questions:

- Seems like the flux-core welders (without a gas bottle) are the least expensive (in some cases). Can you makes good repairs--without being an expert--with a flux core welder? How much of a disadvantage are you at if you use a flux core machine?

- What do you all think of starting a sticky with a list of basic equipment, tips, etc. for welding?

- Anyone know of a full kit that has the welder, tools, clamps, etc.?

Welding has always seemed the like the holy grail of restoration skills, I gotta learn.

voodooRunner · Nov 14, 2009

Thanks for all the advice so far!

I found this 2 part video on Youtube put out by MotorzTV that is very informative for beginners like myself, regarding equipment, settings, and technique.

The guys use a 115v Hobart Mig welder, with a sheet metal demo in part 2. Good stuff.

Part 1
YouTube - Learn How To Weld (Part 1/2)

Part 2
YouTube - Learn How To Weld (Part 2/2)

zookeeper · Nov 14, 2009

68Blue302Coupe said:
I want something that can handle repairs on quarter panels, doors, floor pan patching, and maybe some small frame patches / reinforcements.

Novice questions:

- Seems like the flux-core welders (without a gas bottle) are the least expensive (in some cases). Can you makes good repairs--without being an expert--with a flux core welder? How much of a disadvantage are you at if you use a flux core machine?

- What do you all think of starting a sticky with a list of basic equipment, tips, etc. for welding?

- Anyone know of a full kit that has the welder, tools, clamps, etc.?

Welding has always seemed the like the holy grail of restoration skills, I gotta learn.

Sounds like you are a prime candidate for a 110v, flux-core MIG welder. For the money, they simply can't be beat. Anyone who can't weld with flux core wire, probably can't weld with gas either. The trick is to set the machine up properly and use basic techniques. For instance, I run the wire speed and amperage higher than the basic guide that came with my welder. I also do the same at work with our big Miller with all the bells and whistles. If it's all set up correctly, you'll know it because the welding action will soud like frying bacon. If it's popping and skipping, look to see if there's more than about 3/8" of wire sticking out when you stop. If so, turn up the heat a bit. If it pops and the wire quits coming out because it's stuck in the gun, turn up the wire speed. I realize this is over-simplification, but the point is to adjust one thing at a time until it suits you. If you're welding sheetmetal, make a small, slow circle, then stop and move at least an inch away from your first tack and do it again. If you're using gas, be careful not to try to weld outside on a windy day. Wind can and will blow your sheilding gas away and even the best welder cannot weld with regular wire and no gas. If you're welding on structural steel, make sure you leave a gap between parts, vee it out a bit and be patient and move slower, making a "C" shape with the gun and above all else, watch your puddle. A good welding helmet makes a world of difference as does the right shade of lens. You can't weld what you can't see.

TurboDoctor · Nov 14, 2009

Wicked93gs is right about getting the biggest machine you can afford. But there are down sides to that. Most homes are not set up with the required plugs and or voltage to run a bigger welder. I would recommend being that you are new to welding, is to go to home depot or lowes ect and buy a 110 volt Lincoln. Be watchful and make sure you get the unit with the bigger duty cycle. I believe they have to choices in the 110v category. The littler one is not set up for gas and can only do flux core, the bigger of the two has a port for gas and comes with a regulator in the event you want to run gas. You will have to double check that, just what I remember from a few years back. Flux core is the way to go when you are learning. It’s cheaper for one and gives you a better quality weld. You don’t have to worry about travel speed and keeping your weld and shielding gas ect ect all correct like you do when you mig with gas. Once you learn to weld you won’t stop and you will wish you had a bigger machine for bigger projects. I’ve been a professional welder for almost 10 years and in still learning new things every day, finding better ways. But from the begging everyone always told me 99% of welding was prep work, and come to find out they were right. Practice makes perfect. Get scrap and just work on your technique and enjoy it. Have fun

sparx · Nov 15, 2009

I have been an Electrical Contractor since 1977. Over the years one of my accounts was a company that built and repaired dumpsters for a large waste removal company in Chicago.

All they did was move, upgrade, and constantly move welders again and again. So I have wired many welders over the years. Single phase, three phase, from 125 volt to 480 volt. I also wired tiny spot welders for a battery factory that manufactured batteries for cam corders back in the 80's and 90's. Moved to Mexico unfortunately.

Wiring is NOT rocket science. Wiring an electric range is about the same as wiring a welder, OK not in every case but you get the picture.

If you need advice as to what your electrical system can handle for powering a welder or a compressor or anything let me know, PM or email me anytime be glad to help you. I can get you through the entire procedure on wiring, from parts purchase to installation, without incident.

You guys are helping me with my Mustang, so this is least I can offer in return.

BTW I am in this thread to find info on a welder for use on my Mustang.

sparx

Hack · Nov 18, 2009

You can easily weld anything on a Mustang with a 110V welder. Don't let anyone tell you differently. If someone needs a 220v welder to do sheet metal, they're doing it wrong. Save the 220V for your air compressor. THAT's where you really need 220V.

The tip above about the auto-darkening mask is a great one. They aren't that expensive now, and it makes a huge difference being able to see what you're doing when you pull the trigger. I had a lot of trouble when I first started, and when I eventually bought an auto-darkening helmet, my welds got better immediately. Not only that, but it makes welding more enjoyable. This is especially true when you're welding sheet metal; doing many short bursts. What a PITA to lift and lower the mask every time!

pyroman · Nov 19, 2009

Great info in this thread guys. I too am looking into learning how to weld.
Thanks

65Rob · Nov 19, 2009

99% of welding restoration work is sheet metal and the 110 welders work perfectly well, I've done numerous complete restorations with mine. I bought my son a bigger 220 unit as he does more frame work and I've never had to borrow it. If you have the extra cash get what you want but the 110 will do just about anything you want. I prefer the ones that use gas though, most people you ask do as well. I think a lot of welders come with videos now or you can buy them from Eastwood or places like that. It's really not hard to get a hang of it, if it sounds like you're making popcorn you don't have enough heat, if you're blowing holes through it you have too much. It should sizzle like bacon frying

Edit: I should add, do get a quality one if you can afford it, not just a quality name but a quality unit within their line. I have a Lincoln but it's of a higher end model than the ones you see at big box stores for cheap. They may work well enough but they have less features including no provision for gas on some of them.

leporeg · Nov 19, 2009

This is great info! I'm new to the welding world, as I will be doing repairs to my '65 Coupe. Floor boards, firewall, and rear fenders. I will be starting in the spring, got some home improvement projects to finish!

golf4283 · Nov 19, 2009

So the 110v will be fine for unibody frame repair? My rear end is rusted as can be so I'm gonna have to replace the frame rails back there as well as sheet metal.

65Rob · Nov 19, 2009

golf4283 said:
So the 110v will be fine for unibody frame repair? My rear end is rusted as can be so I'm gonna have to replace the frame rails back there as well as sheet metal.

It should be fine but check the rating on the welder, should be good to 10 gauge or so. I don't think the rear frame rails are all that heavy a gauge anyway. If you were to weld a lot of heavier stuff a bigger welder would be nice but if it's just the odd little bit the 110v should be fine, if it's a good one. I have a Lincoln SP125 and I had no problems welding torque boxes which are probably as thick as anything you'll find on a Stang.

hungrymonkey · Nov 19, 2009

I am no expert by any means. So take my advice with a grain of salt.

I bought a Hobart handler 140 this year. It is a 110 machine that is set up for gas. I was on the fence about buying a 220 machine for the past six years or so. But I decided to take the plunge and just buy one. I am welding mostly sheet metal and thinner metals.

So my advice, other than the auto darkening helmet. Is to buy a welder that has gas, or is set up for gas. (just do not buy the hobart with the mini bottle. It is cheaper to just spend a few bucks more for a real tank).

before working on your car, take on another project. I built a brew sculpture as practice. It gave me the opportunity to figure out what worked and did not work. It also gave me hours of time on the gun without making a mistake I regret.

oh, and wear your gloves. I managed to weld my wedding ring onto my finger.

The first time using the welder.

quick questions for the welding experts

voodooRunner

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golf4283

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daddy oth

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Hack

2+2GT

wicked93gs

Bullitt

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zookeeper

68Blue302Coupe

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voodooRunner

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zookeeper

TurboDoctor

sparx

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Hack

pyroman

65Rob

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leporeg

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golf4283

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65Rob

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hungrymonkey

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