R-12 Freon

GearHd6 · Jun 28, 2006

This thread isnt generally related to Mustangs but im curious. Do automotive shops still provide R-12 freon if the customer whats to pay the enormous price per pound for it? The reason I ask is, i've got a Ford product vehicle that just need the AC topped off. Its a 1994 car and its got the R-12 and the compressor and everything is working and it puts out some cold air its just that the compressor cycles often. So to me it almost seems worth it to pay for a few ounces of R-12 rather than convert it all over to R134a.

jrichker · Jun 28, 2006

There are still some places that sell recycled R12. You can plan to pay up to $60 a pound for it plus the labor charge.

GearHd6 · Jun 28, 2006

Yeah I didnt think it would be cheap but I want to say it cost me about $200+ to get my Mustang converted to R134a. I figured if I needed a pound or less then it would be worth it to go the R-12 route.

rd · Jun 28, 2006

Yes, I just had my 79 recharged for one more season with the York compressor, the expansion valve system, etc. Still works ok after all these years. I used my last can of R12 and the shop added a pound or so.

The ac shop guy said as long as it works we did not need to change it.

The demand for R12 seems to have dropped off so that there is enough around for the few of us that still use it.

All that said, I have an 83 parts car with an orifice tube system that I am going to install in the 79 this winter or so, and go with 134.

For what its worth, my local shop charged and checked my 89 2.3 LX and adjusted the pressure switch to a lower setting, and the 134 converted system works like gangbusters!

Fett · Jun 28, 2006

The "kit" needed to convert over to R134 is nothing more than some oil and port fittings. You should be able to pick them up at any auto parts store for a few bucks. NOTHING else needs to be changed. New fittings, flush the system, fill with R134.

Mustang5L5 · Jun 28, 2006

Fett said:
The "kit" needed to convert over to R134 is nothing more than some oil and port fittings. You should be able to pick them up at any auto parts store for a few bucks. NOTHING else needs to be changed. New fittings, flush the system, fill with R134.

But it won't be as cold as it was with r-12

To properly convert, the condensor and compressor also should be changed. It's easy for us Fox guys as we can use a 94-95 condensor which is larger and has more surface area.

91foxbodygt · Jun 28, 2006

they still sell r12 but its expensive, some places its required to ask for a license just to buy r12. just convert to r134a, 9 bucks a can isnt that bad

Nopantz · Jun 28, 2006

i tried to find fluid for the r-12 when i had my '89 S10 Blazer...i had no luck at all finding anything in my area.

jrichker · Jun 28, 2006

Fett said:
The "kit" needed to convert over to R134 is nothing more than some oil and port fittings. You should be able to pick them up at any auto parts store for a few bucks. NOTHING else needs to be changed. New fittings, flush the system, fill with R134.

I do believe you are wrong. The oil oil needs to be flushed, and the dryer/accumulator needs to be replaced. PAG lubricants, the most common type of oil sold in auto parts stores, is not compatible with the mineral oil used with R12. That means a solvent flush is needed to do the job right.

You can cut corners, but the thow in some cheap conversion kit type of workmanship will come back to bite you in the butt.

How do I know? EPA 609 MVAC certified... That's how I know...

See http://www.aircondition.com/tech/questions/25/

See http://www.aircondition.com/ for more good info.

5spd GT · Jun 28, 2006

I bought two cans of r12 for 20 bucks last year. I still have it...I didn't realize my car had been converted over to r134a.

795.0pacecar · Jun 28, 2006

rd said:
All that said, I have an 83 parts car with an orifice tube system that I am going to install in the 79 this winter or so, and go with 134.

I am using the stock 79 expansion valve system with R134a and my vent temps get down to 40 degrees. You dont have to convert verything over if your stock system works fine.

PRO50SC · Jun 28, 2006

There is an excellent r-12 replacement on the market called Freeze 12. Is compatable and works just as well as the old stuff. Inexpensive too. Check out e-bay for it.

GearHd6 · Jun 28, 2006

PRO50SC said:
There is an excellent r-12 replacement on the market called Freeze 12. Is compatable and works just as well as the old stuff. Inexpensive too. Check out e-bay for it.

I read the fine print on the Freeze 12 website and they say the whole system has to be evacuated of the R-12 before you can add the Freeze 12. If you could just add it on top of the R-12 it would be worth it, otherwise i'd just convert it.

SmockDoiley · Jun 28, 2006

Why not just convert over? Its cheaper. All you need is the R134 conversion kit which just installs shrader valves in the high and low side fittings. You dont need to replace anything else. How do I know this you ask, because I worked at a parts store that sells the kits, and I now work at Midas which services A/C. Nowhere have I ever heard of needing to change anything else, and I've never had a customer come back and complain. You just need to evacuate the system of the R-12, install the fittings, refill with R134 and then jump the low pressure switch to get the compressor to fire back up. Or have it done at a service center. It would probably be the same cost as paying for R-12.

GearHd6 · Jun 28, 2006

I dont want to convert to R134 because the car probably needs a few ounces to top it off. I'd rather pay a little extra for R-12 and leave the system alone. Just a quick fill and be done with it.

Fett · Jun 28, 2006

jrichker said:
I do believe you are wrong. The oil oil needs to be flushed, and the dryer/accumulator needs to be replaced. PAG lubricants, the most common type of oil sold in auto parts stores, is not compatible with the mineral oil used with R12. That means a solvent flush is needed to do the job right.

You can cut corners, but the thow in some cheap conversion kit type of workmanship will come back to bite you in the butt.

How do I know? EPA 609 MVAC certified... That's how I know...

See http://www.aircondition.com/tech/questions/25/

See http://www.aircondition.com/ for more good info.

For the record, I said that the system needed to be flushed....and I also said that you needed oil. The accumulator and condenser do not need to be changed as they are no different than the ones used in other applications that came with R134. No part in the system is different, and none of them need to be changed. As long as the system is flushed well enough to remove any ester oil, then all the components will be just fine. There are no issues with r134 not being as cold as r12.

5spd GT · Jun 28, 2006

r134a isn't going to be as cold as r12 using the same compressor and condensor, etc. Even vs. even, the r12 will have a cooler charge...

bubba-dough · Jun 29, 2006

To answer the question, without throwing out all of the legal crap at you or getting into arguments, yes you can still find places that can get it.

PuterAmI · Jun 29, 2006

You can buy it all day long off of ebay for $20 a pound... If you have your EPA 609 MVAC cert. It only costs $20 to get your cert online.

jrichker · Jun 29, 2006

PuterAmI said:
You can buy it all day long off of ebay for $20 a pound... If you have your EPA 609 MVAC cert. It only costs $20 to get your cert online.

Cheap and easy - when I took it, the test was timed, but it was open book. Can't get much easier than that.

R-12 Freon

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