Rack and Pinion upgrade

[chemeng]

Hi everyone,

Did a search on the subject but didn't find what I needed. Want to install a rack and pinion in my car, details below:

1965 Mustang
Granada spindles
V8 car - just replaced with 331 stroker
Power assist with Eaton pump
T-5 conversion using shaft linkage (z-bar)
Tri-Y headers

Should cover it. My research tells me only two companies make a kit to convert my setup without tons of mods. Randalls rack won't fit z-bars, Steeroids are auto tranny only. Flaming River makes a direct bolt in but it is 50/50 on the board whether you love or hate it. TCP makes a kit, but is very expensive.

Did I miss anything? Let me know your thoughts. My car is dangerous to drive, when I wind her up, the steering is all over the place. Would rather invest in R&P and not rebuild what I have.

Thanks, Mike

 

[66Runt]

Call and talk to Randy at Randall's Racks

He was working on a new bracket that would allow the use of the Z-bar.
I had sent him info on my swap (modified for the clutch linkage) a while back. He said he was working on the same thing. I'm sure his setup will be much nicer.
A welding shop could fab the whole thing up pretty reasonably. It took me about 2 hours to make the bracket and modify the bell crank on mine. I completely installed the rack and steering assembly first. It was a piece of cake.
There is a guy in Norway (IIRC) that was building one from a Saab rack that looked really good. And Ronstang has his super secret ultimate rack project, that from his post could be the best of solutions out there. If he'd just quit building cars for others and start on the darned thing

Before commiting to one of the racks on the market now, it would be really nice if you could see and possibly drive a car so equipped. Rack and Pinion isn't the panacea for steering woes in our Mustangs, it has trade offs as well.

Good luck,

Scott

 

[chemeng]

Rack and Pinion

Thanks for the info Scott. What are the tradeoffs with R&P? You mentioned that it is not a complete fix for steering woes. My current steering is terrible, it constantly darts left and right. Tried adjusting the steering box and had zero improvement. All tie rods are new, did not work on control valve or replace idler arm. If I replaced the steering box, control valve and idler arm I am 2/3rd's of the way to a R&P upgrade. In for a penny in for a pound so figured I would jump all the way.

Let me know the con's of switching to R&P.

Thanks, MikeR

 

[Ronstang]

Scott,

It is not that my the rack and pinion I am working on is super secret it is just that I will not promise things I cannot deliver. Preliminary measurements and testing for full lock to lock steering are extremely encourging but I have several ideas on how to approach this setup and I have not had time to play with any of them. Once I have something solid that looks to be vialbe I will share it with everyone.

 

[jamison42166]

i just ordered a TCP rack and pinion steering as well as the front coilover suspension and subframe connectors.. looking forward to getting them done as well, im also considering upgrading to disc brakes too.. i hear you about in for a penny, in for a pound.
from what i understand or have heard is that the turning circle on the car is much wider with rack and pinion than it is with stock steering and there are some clearance issues with some types of headers. I just have stock manifolds right now and might consider headers at a later point. (ugggh spending a lot of money but it will be nice to have something not everyone around here has,

as my car is now it is very unpleasant to drive, the steering wanders the suspension bottoms out easily, for me rather than redoing everthing to stock and not having good handling i just chose to modernize the car. Im hoping to have the parts in about a week to ten days.

 

[chemeng]

Randall's Rack

I emailed Randall with my requirements, will let everyone know what's available for z-bar installation.

Thanks, MikeR

 

[66Runt]

What's more important, providing us all with free info, or making money?

Scott,

It is not that my the rack and pinion I am working on is super secret it is just that I will not promise things I cannot deliver. Preliminary measurements and testing for full lock to lock steering are extremely encourging but I have several ideas on how to approach this setup and I have not had time to play with any of them. Once I have something solid that looks to be vialbe I will share it with everyone.

I'm just looking forward to your results. It would be really nice to have a rack fit up that allows full turning.
So stop messing around making money, and get to work on something that costs money, and then share it with us will you!

Just kidding around. I do wish you luck, if there is anything I can do to help, I'd be glad to.

Scott

 

[jmenke]

I used to have sloppy power steering also on my '66, even though I rebuilt everything. I think the main problem was with the rebuilt box. The use of 235 tires in the front also tend to grap every rut in the road as well. If flaming river boxes were available when I did mine, things may have been different, because my '65 was tight.

I cured my white knuckle ride by installing a power TCP unit and didn't notice any considerable loss of turning radius, but can't comment on what a stock radius is. I have granada spindles, promotorsports bumpsteer, stock manual tie rods. I did, however, build my own steering stops. This unit is on a car with 5.0L (EFI), hydraulic clutch, hooker comp. full length headers. I did have to fabricate some additional spacers to drop the rack roughly 3/8" similar to those that were supplied with the kit. I didn't like the way the bellows were rubbing my oil pan. This condition may be due to the way my engine is slanted because of the Tremic 5 speed. That tranny takes up a lot of room in the small '66 tunnel. My kit also did not come with locking nuts on the u-joints. I had to change the allen head bolts for longer ones to get nuts to fit. I mentioned both of these issues to TCP. Not sure if they did anything with their kits. Other than that, the kit is a simple bolt in. Excellent top notch build/fabrication/engineering in my opinion. My only complaint with the TCP power rack is the noise when using the stock Ford 87-93 power steering pump. I have taken the pump apart twice, and modified the fluid circuit with some improvement. TCP recommends a KRC pump. Too bad they didn't spec a servo that matched Ford pumps.

I can't comment on other brands, but a friend of mine just installed a Flaming River manual rack on his '65. He apparently got an 'older' version that would not fit. Flaming River sent him a revised version and it bolted in without much issue. He is using shorties (headers). We won't know how well this thing works for at least 6 months, as his car is still being built.

If I were to do it again, hands down, a rack and pinion is my recommendation.

Jim

 

[washMO66]

I have Flaming river and it is junk...... It doesn't clear my Hooker super Comps and the car shakes at high speeds. The linkage is too bound up to work right, I am going back to stock.

However the Flaming River tilt steering column is nice, it will stay.

 

[chemeng]

Thanks for all the input. Randall didn't reply to my email. TCP has a booth at this weekend's Street Rod Nationals, looks like I'll have a long discussion with those guys. Mike

 

[jerry S]

Unless yours is a DD where you have to parallel park every day, I think you would be able to live with the TCP manual R&P. I have it on my car and I just love it. It is considerably less expensive than the power unit.

 

[SHIFTY101EASY]

u cant even turn enough to parallel park???

 

[jerry S]

u cant even turn enough to parallel park???

If you can parallel park in a tight space with manual R&P and 16x8 235s up front with little or no effort, then you are a stronger man than I Gunga Din.

 

[chemeng]

Nope, I put less that 2000 miles a year on her. BTW - I have 17x8's up front. Will need the Arnold plan to beef up the biceps to steer.
Running this large a tire probably need to bite the bullet and go power. Mike

 

[SHIFTY101EASY]

yeah, id go power anyways....power is sooo key when u need to parallel in a tight space....and quickly.....first try....on a busy street, on a hill.....etc.....

 

[chemeng]

TCP Rack on order!

Just placed the order. Will give a full report after installation. Looks like for overall fit they are the one. Went the manual route though, don't drive her enough to warrant the power (the cost was pretty steep too).

Should I keep the old power steering system? Any idea how much a complete 65 power steering assy might be worth? It has the early style Eaton pump. The steering box and control valve will need a rebuild.

Thanks, Mike