I have an 86 GT EFI with 52000 original miles on it. I took it to 4 different shops and they all told me there was a noise down bottom and I need a new or rebuilt engine. I have little money at best and cannot do the engine swap myself. It seems by most internet accounts that it is cheaper to buy a crate instead of rebuild mine. I don't want to use a junk yard engine cause its not worth the risk since I will not be doing the labor. So here is where I'm at, it will be a drive around town car. I want it to be able to do 2 or 3 hr. trips one way. I want it to be fast and I have delusions that I will put a super charger on it at a later time (probably never happen). I know fast is a relative term, so for this discussion it means able to run with cars of today on the street. I basically want the speed and reliability of a new mustang with my style. I'm not to familiar with the way heads and cams work as far as numbers porting and such so please keep it basic. How much horse power do I need to get to where I want to be? I'm in NJ so any local knowledge will help.
Fox Rebuild/crate Help
- Thread starter treeska
- Start date
Ok, need to figure out if your in the right place.
Sticking with a 5.0 push rod engine (easiest, most economical)
Transplanting newer modular engine (4.6 or 5.0 modular)
Undecided best bang for the buck.
Sticking with a 5.0 push rod engine (easiest, most economical)
Transplanting newer modular engine (4.6 or 5.0 modular)
Undecided best bang for the buck.
52k miles?
Seriously? That is a low mile car
Do you want to learn to rebuild your own engine?
You mention forced induction. With a rebuild, you'll need forged rods and pistons. You'll want a specific camshaft, you'll want all sorts of very cool things.
Crate engine over someone building it for you? In the end, the custom will cost more. Though having a builder is better imo. They can build the engine according to your needs and desires.
Honestly, your original post is too vague to make a decision. If you want to have a 650rwhp engine, make the decision now.
If you want a hot little car that'll make your eyes bug out, 450rwhp will do that for you. AND it will be a lot cheaper.
There are so many options out there, tell us more.
Keep in mind, the more hp you want, the more you need the supporting parts to be quality as well. In other words, a 700hp engine will cost you significantly more than a 450hp engine with the required transmissions, rear ends, brakes, suspension and all.
Seriously? That is a low mile car
Do you want to learn to rebuild your own engine?
You mention forced induction. With a rebuild, you'll need forged rods and pistons. You'll want a specific camshaft, you'll want all sorts of very cool things.
Crate engine over someone building it for you? In the end, the custom will cost more. Though having a builder is better imo. They can build the engine according to your needs and desires.
Honestly, your original post is too vague to make a decision. If you want to have a 650rwhp engine, make the decision now.
If you want a hot little car that'll make your eyes bug out, 450rwhp will do that for you. AND it will be a lot cheaper.
There are so many options out there, tell us more.
Keep in mind, the more hp you want, the more you need the supporting parts to be quality as well. In other words, a 700hp engine will cost you significantly more than a 450hp engine with the required transmissions, rear ends, brakes, suspension and all.
Not a cheap answer. Most of today's "hot rods" run around high 12's-to mid 13's. For your car to run that quickly(in street form-non slicks/track suspension etc), you're going to need around 350-400hp. Doing so with a 302 based motor isn't a big deal but it's not cheap. You may just want to rebuild and stay relatively stock. With your car being speed density modifying is difficult without swapping to a maf system.
You can buy some different crate motors. Plenty of vendors out there that are an internet search away. Things I would look for in a crate motor are:trick flow or AFR aluminum heads,9-10:1cr pistons(construction type doesn't really matter-forged would be best if supercharging in future),name brand camshaft(prefer non Ford alphabet cam ie "e or b" cam),and I'd go stroker crank(331-347). Ford even has new boss block crate engines. The boss block is a lot stronger than a stock block and in some instances the motor is warranted.
Now if you build or buy a new motor with anything above stock power you have to address support items. You'll need more fuel pump,bigger injectors,convert to MAF,bigger throttle body,intake,exhaust and depending on how aggressive you go-a dyno tune. It's not just the motor itself that will cost a considerable amount. At the very cheapest you're looking at around 4k(that's with used parts shopping,your own labor,etc) and up to around 10k. Then there is labor costs at around 100$ an/hour(estimate-your area may be more/less). I would expect around 1-2k to pull and install new engine/get it running etc.
You can buy some different crate motors. Plenty of vendors out there that are an internet search away. Things I would look for in a crate motor are:trick flow or AFR aluminum heads,9-10:1cr pistons(construction type doesn't really matter-forged would be best if supercharging in future),name brand camshaft(prefer non Ford alphabet cam ie "e or b" cam),and I'd go stroker crank(331-347). Ford even has new boss block crate engines. The boss block is a lot stronger than a stock block and in some instances the motor is warranted.
Now if you build or buy a new motor with anything above stock power you have to address support items. You'll need more fuel pump,bigger injectors,convert to MAF,bigger throttle body,intake,exhaust and depending on how aggressive you go-a dyno tune. It's not just the motor itself that will cost a considerable amount. At the very cheapest you're looking at around 4k(that's with used parts shopping,your own labor,etc) and up to around 10k. Then there is labor costs at around 100$ an/hour(estimate-your area may be more/less). I would expect around 1-2k to pull and install new engine/get it running etc.
Todd's right, it ain't cheap......but it IS more fun than just about anything!
It'll leave you grunting, "I made FIRE" like Tom Hanks in Castaway.
It'll leave you grunting, "I made FIRE" like Tom Hanks in Castaway.
Also remember, these fox Mustangs are a lot lighter than the new ones. So it'll take less power to make it as fast. Or you could do a 351W swap and not worry about too much power on the block, although you'll add weight.
What my furry Mustang junkies are trying to say is:
In addition to the motor, there is at least that much money to be spent in upgrading the rest of the Fox chassis to handle all of that additional power.
Remember, this thing was produced to put down 190 HP. Let's now skip ahead to what else is required to support 400 HP in a 30 year old body.
In addition to the motor, there is at least that much money to be spent in upgrading the rest of the Fox chassis to handle all of that additional power.
Remember, this thing was produced to put down 190 HP. Let's now skip ahead to what else is required to support 400 HP in a 30 year old body.
Here, this is what I want for my blue car. https://lmr.com/item/M6007Z460FRT/ford-performance-460-crate-engine-m6007-z460frt
Already has all of the forged internals, boss block, and secretly it causes me to wake up in the middle of the night sweating with dreams of it.
Sure.....it's ten thousand dollars......and the rest of the mods i'll need to tame this beast will probably cost me close to that amount.....but really, i'm still sane:zombie:
Honestly though, you won't need to spend all of that to have a fun car. Just remember, the more go you want, the more you'll pay, just like anything else.
Already has all of the forged internals, boss block, and secretly it causes me to wake up in the middle of the night sweating with dreams of it.
Sure.....it's ten thousand dollars......and the rest of the mods i'll need to tame this beast will probably cost me close to that amount.....but really, i'm still sane:zombie:
Honestly though, you won't need to spend all of that to have a fun car. Just remember, the more go you want, the more you'll pay, just like anything else.
Valve cover to oil-pan:
Amazon product ASIN B007CWS7OUView: https://www.amazon.com/PROFessional-Powertrain-VF46-Engine-Remanufactured/dp/B007CWS7OU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1489264744&sr=8-3&keywords=ford+302+motor
Re-use your valve covers and oil-pan:
Amazon product ASIN B007CXBOQMView: https://www.amazon.com/PROFessional-Powertrain-DF46-Complete-Remanufactured/dp/B007CXBOQM/ref=pd_sbs_263_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=RAQ1SN9T74AASP2TYR2C
All the way to:
Amazon product ASIN B003TPKOKYView: https://www.amazon.com/Ford-Racing-M6007X302E-Crate-Engine/dp/B003TPKOKY/ref=pd_sbs_263_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=6GYJRN3W49AXEZR07CSC
In your situation, I think I might go for a crate rebuilt motor, add a supercharger down the road (maybe a 2.2L Kenne Bell
) and enjoy the ride. A good supercharger would bring out the best in any of those builds up there. 
mikestang63
SN Certified Technician
just swap in a coyote. by the time you price out a decent crate motor to make 400hp you are not that far off.
I will say this, not that it will really matter. Just my 2 cents worth.
If that stang does in fact have that low miles on it likely can be fixed without rebuilding it. Hard to say for sure, just a guess. Fix it and enjoy it for what it is and if you ever sell it you will be money ahead.
As far as running with todays hot rods, well, buy one, better fuel mileage, more comfortable, better street manors with the technology that they bring with them.
Takes a lot of time and money to build what you want and it can be done. I'm sure it already has. Just be real about it.
Just keep us posted on your progress no matter what direction you take.
If that stang does in fact have that low miles on it likely can be fixed without rebuilding it. Hard to say for sure, just a guess. Fix it and enjoy it for what it is and if you ever sell it you will be money ahead.
As far as running with todays hot rods, well, buy one, better fuel mileage, more comfortable, better street manors with the technology that they bring with them.
Takes a lot of time and money to build what you want and it can be done. I'm sure it already has. Just be real about it.
Just keep us posted on your progress no matter what direction you take.
Thanks for the feed back. I m going to have the engine pulled and have someone look at it. Or should I just leave it in? What does it cost to have someone pull it out and look it over? The trans is already out?
Any ideas on types of crate engine companies. I would like to be under $4500 all in with install all done. Id like over 350hp and strong enough internals to handle a super charger later on.
Any ideas on types of crate engine companies. I would like to be under $4500 all in with install all done. Id like over 350hp and strong enough internals to handle a super charger later on.
You don't need forged internal to run a supercharger.
Here's a resource that will give you some idea of what is required to make 350 hp:
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/guess-my-h-p-the-dyno-1-4-mile-time-thread.677534/
Here's a resource that will give you some idea of what is required to make 350 hp:
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/guess-my-h-p-the-dyno-1-4-mile-time-thread.677534/
How about this motor? I really don't know what it all means. Its made by Blueprint they are asking around $3800. Could I keep stock MAF, brakes and shocks and such? Would the internals be good enough for a charger later?
Have a craving for horsepower? Satisfy it with BluePrint Engines Ford 306 C.I.D. 390hp base crate engines! These base crate engines are meticulously-built Blue Oval engines and a great choice for drivable, reliable high performance. BluePrint base crate engines are always balanced and dyno-tested to add a lot of muscle to your fun! Plus, they're shipped with the dyno results so you can see the BluePrint difference! What could be better? Their 30 month/50,000 mile warranty!
Block:
* Seasoned 302 cid block bored .030 over
* 2-bolt main
* 1-piece rear main seal
* Square and parallel decked
* Align-honed main bearing bore
* Cylinders honed on computer-controlled machine to within .0002 in. straightness and roundness
* Cylinders are sonic tested for thickness
Rotating assembly:
* cast steel crankshaft
* 5.155 in. rods
* 9.5:1 Hypereutectic pistons
* Moly rings
* High-volume oil pump
* Heavy-duty, double-roller timing chain
Cylinder heads:
* Blueprint aluminum heads
* Swirl-polished intake and exhaust valves
* Hardened retainers and springs
Camshaft:
* .543/.554 Lift hydraulic roller camshaft
* Degreed to ensure maximum horsepower
Plus:
* Timing cover
* Valve covers
* Oil pan
* Brass freeze plugs
Have a craving for horsepower? Satisfy it with BluePrint Engines Ford 306 C.I.D. 390hp base crate engines! These base crate engines are meticulously-built Blue Oval engines and a great choice for drivable, reliable high performance. BluePrint base crate engines are always balanced and dyno-tested to add a lot of muscle to your fun! Plus, they're shipped with the dyno results so you can see the BluePrint difference! What could be better? Their 30 month/50,000 mile warranty!
Block:
* Seasoned 302 cid block bored .030 over
* 2-bolt main
* 1-piece rear main seal
* Square and parallel decked
* Align-honed main bearing bore
* Cylinders honed on computer-controlled machine to within .0002 in. straightness and roundness
* Cylinders are sonic tested for thickness
Rotating assembly:
* cast steel crankshaft
* 5.155 in. rods
* 9.5:1 Hypereutectic pistons
* Moly rings
* High-volume oil pump
* Heavy-duty, double-roller timing chain
Cylinder heads:
* Blueprint aluminum heads
* Swirl-polished intake and exhaust valves
* Hardened retainers and springs
Camshaft:
* .543/.554 Lift hydraulic roller camshaft
* Degreed to ensure maximum horsepower
Plus:
* Timing cover
* Valve covers
* Oil pan
* Brass freeze plugs
I would stay away from those, components like the cylinder heads are made in China. I had my engine rebuilt with forged internals and added a new top end 4 years ago. It cost me roughly $5800 by the time it was running properly and makes 281 to the tire. You're least expensive method is to find a running explorer motor have the heads redone throw in a HO cam and add an s trim. You can definitely do all of that for $5800 and 400hp is easily attainable.
If you car in fact has 52k on it and if it's in good shape and you don't have big bucks to spend, look for a shop that works on cars like yours and talk to them about fixing your engine, can't be that much wrong with it at 52k. Spend your money on a few bolt ons and enjoy a 30+ year old car that will take you farther with mild modifications and still be fun to drive.
Jmo
- Mar 2, 2015
- 6,945
- 5,816
- 213
A 30month....50,000 mile warranty, and a dyno sheet, is hard to beat....even if it has Chinese heads.
Stock brakes suck with 215hp
Stock brakes suck with 215hp
