return-style fuel system?

fivemustangs · Apr 18, 2010

I have a question that I can not seem to find an anwser to. Do I need to put in a return-style fuel system in my 2002 gt if I am adding a roots style blower? I am going to do all the supporting mods like forging internals porting heads upgrade injectors, mass air, bla bla bla. But can my fuel system handle 550-600 rwhp? or do I need a return style system?
Thanks!

trinity_gt · Apr 18, 2010

It's not a matter of the system being return or not. It's about volume and pressure. Returnless systems can provide the volume and pressure but to support 600rwHP you're definitely going to need to upgrade the pump, the FPDM and I suspect the lines too. I make ~400 crank HP with an OE returnless Mustang GT pump, tank, factory lines and 36# injectors with the use of a Kenne Bell Boost A Pump. If you want 600rwHP (~700 crankshaft HP) you're going to need a lot more injector and pump volume in reserve. Cobra or Ford GT components are likely in your future...

fivemustangs · Apr 18, 2010

Ok I was looking at the 2.1L kenne bell today and thought it sounded like a good upgrade. What would you suggest for the pump? a walboro 255? or is that to small? Maybe 500rwhp would be more efficiant. do you know what the stock rails and lines are good up to? any other ideas on different superchargers? sorry so many questions, just trying to figure everything out.
Thanks-

trinity_gt · Apr 18, 2010

fivemustangs said:
Ok I was looking at the 2.1L kenne bell today and thought it sounded like a good upgrade. What would you suggest for the pump? a walboro 255?

If you're staying returnless you need a pump that's compatible with the FPDM. Think about something like, say, a Ford GT pump. Check out:

How to install a Ford GT Super Car fuel pump into 99' to 04' Mustang GT and 99/01 Cobra | eHow.com

You might also look into getting a 03-04 Cobra tank with dual pumps. According to Hyland, this set-up is good to 600HP.

do you know what the stock rails and lines are good up to? any other ideas on different superchargers? sorry so many questions, just trying to figure everything out.
Thanks-

I would check with KB to see what their recommendations are for fueling a 600HP street motor with one of their blowers.

Blackone51 · Apr 18, 2010

trinity_gt said:
It's not a matter of the system being return or not. It's about volume and pressure. Returnless systems can provide the volume and pressure but to support 600rwHP you're definitely going to need to upgrade the pump, the FPDM and I suspect the lines too. I make ~400 crank HP with an OE returnless Mustang GT pump, tank, factory lines and 36# injectors with the use of a Kenne Bell Boost A Pump. If you want 600rwHP (~700 crankshaft HP) you're going to need a lot more injector and pump volume in reserve. Cobra or Ford GT components are likely in your future...

I totally agree but if you want to convert to a return-style system but retain the factory fuel pressure sensor MMR racing has a complete kit, including gas tank for $2,199. Go to PRODUCTS, then down to FUEL SYSTEMS AND PARTS, it's the fifth product. When I upgrade to a MMR900 block I will be upgrading to this fuel system.

Modular Mustang Racing

Look into procharger, only if you like loud blowers. O it's a centri if you don't know already.

fivemustangs · Apr 21, 2010

Good info guys. I think I am going to just add the supercharger not and then build the engine later when I have all the money to upgrade everything. I was still thinking of going with the 2.1 L kenne bell big bore, does anyone have any experences with this blower? I think the kit was around $4,000 I gotta give Kenne bell a call later. I think it says on a stock engine around 9lb of boost non-intercooled it was about 360 to the wheels. I think the kit came with a "boost-a-pump" not really sure how they work. You think that would be enough with some injectors for that power level?

bakos24 · Apr 21, 2010

fivemustangs said:
any other ideas on different superchargers?
Thanks-

Tork Tech Inc. - ** M112 Supercharger Kits**

Comes with everything you need, my car is making 417 with just there standard kit.

fivemustangs · Apr 21, 2010

That kit does look nice, but the one I was looking at was a kenne bell and was only like $200 more. It has some good features like injectors boost-a-pump and more upgrades if I can afford them. The kit can go up to 750RWHP if I wanted to upgrade in the future also can add the intercooler when I get more money. I can pick my size pulleys from 6-14psi. This is the kit if you wanna check it out. '96-'04 Mustang 4.6 2V 2.1L Supercharger I beleave its 366RWHP at 6PSI non-intercooled, But then I am stuck on which mass air to buy and a power pipe. can I use a 90mm mass air with 36lb injectors? or just for 42lb'rs?

SaleenGT2001 · Apr 21, 2010

the 2.1 wont take you to 750. MAYBE 600-650

BTW i would look at getting a focus pump with a BAP for the stock bottom end

fivemustangs · Apr 21, 2010

Ya maybe it was flywheel HP they were talking about. That is a good idea with the focus pump, I was not sure if I needed anything else with the boost-a-pump. also whats a BAP?

usaf_branham · Apr 22, 2010

the 2.1 got me to 390 at the wheels with 9 psi. the tork tech kit is a good value, however i have been told that it lacks some of the quality that the kenne bell had... at this point in the game, i almost wish i would have built my motor first (forged internals w/ trickflow heads & cams) then supercharged it later... i had 0 issues installing the kennebell, and i have had 0 issues with my car since. the guys a big shot mentioned they had to grind the block and do all kinds of little things to make the tork tech work that wasnt in the instructions...

fivemustangs · Apr 22, 2010

390 at the wheels sounds pretty good to me. Did you have to do any upgrades that did not come with the kit? mass air, fuel pump,throttle body? was your engine bone stock, or did you have bolts ons or anything? pulleys, throttle body exhaust? My 02 gt now has a upper trick flow intake, aluminum driveshaft and a catback borla exhaust. I know I wont be needing the trickflow intake when I get the charger. Also the tuner chip they sent with the kit, how accurate was that? Did you get the non-intercooled kit? and does the kit come with everything listed in the discription?

GDawg · Apr 22, 2010

The BAP is a Boost A Pump... The Kenne Bell kits come with everything, fuel rails, BAP, injectors, MAF but check to be sure. Mine did.

fivemustangs · Apr 22, 2010

How much did you end up paying for your kit if you dont mind me asking?

SaleenGT2001 · Apr 22, 2010

i just sold a COMPLETE KB 1.7 kit for $3200 last week. came with the big tube MAF, injectors, tune....etc.

usaf_branham · Apr 23, 2010

fivemustangs said:
390 at the wheels sounds pretty good to me. Did you have to do any upgrades that did not come with the kit? mass air, fuel pump,throttle body? was your engine bone stock, or did you have bolts ons or anything? pulleys, throttle body exhaust? My 02 gt now has a upper trick flow intake, aluminum driveshaft and a catback borla exhaust. I know I wont be needing the trickflow intake when I get the charger. Also the tuner chip they sent with the kit, how accurate was that? Did you get the non-intercooled kit? and does the kit come with everything listed in the discription?

I am running the stock MAF with a MAFia, Stock Fuel Pump with the Boost-A-Pump (part of the kit), stock throttle body with a BBK Cold Air Intake, Long Tube BBK's, BBK X-Pipe (With Cat's), Flowmasters, No pulleys... i had mine dyno tuned, although, i would have run the kennebell chip but i already had the long tubes and exhaust done so they said it required a dyno tune. I have the intercooled kit with the 9psi pulley. i actually make 10 psi with my combo. yes, the kenne bell kit was awesome. the manual is idiot proof, the only time i ran into an issue was with the directions for the boost-a-pump and the intercooler, but i figured it out, its not rocket science. the instructions for installing the blower is excellent. it took me approximently 16 hours from start to finish. The price of the kit is listed under their prices, they knocked $100 off, because i didnt use their chip. Also, if you go that route, I highly suggest you ask them for 42lb injectors, the big air kit, 75 mm throttle body, and the 90mm lightning maf... I wish i did at the time, because now i have to buy all those parts seperately... and the 36 lb injectors that come with the kit limit you...

also, the 390 im making at the wheels is a safe tune, if i had a good dyno shop like MPH tune my car i would probably have closer to 420 at the wheels... im afraid to push it any further though, the stock bottom end is glass in these cars and i cant afford to buy a new short block at the moment.

fivemustangs · Apr 23, 2010

I have a preditor tuner, should I tell them I dont need the chip? I have had a few mods done with the tuner in the past at the dyno. Or should I flash it back to stock and stick with the chip?

usaf_branham · Apr 24, 2010

flash it to stock and use their chip, sell the tuner... or find a dyno shop near you that uses diablosport predator tuners to tune cars and have them dyno tune it using your tuner (a bit more money but worth it, in case you want to add gears or fiddle with timing / fuel)

fivemustangs · Apr 24, 2010

Now that I think of it, I know a dyno that works with diablo tuners. He did the tune on my 02 in the first place, he calibrated for the gears in the car messed around with the fuel/air curves and small things like that. I will call him and see what he thinks. Would you suggest getting a few runs on the dyno eather way if I were to go with the chip or the tune?

fivemustangs · Apr 24, 2010

Does anyone know anything about the dual cobra fuel pump set up?

return-style fuel system?

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