Ridiculous electrical problems! I'm so annoyed with the car!

[Zero Signal]

Don't get me wron, I love my car. But it has been really pissing me off for the past couple months. Here's the scoop:

It started a few months ago when I was driving and the car started bucking like crazy and the guages went nuts. It did this randomly every once in awhile, but not very often.

One night, it was raining and I went through some mean flooded roads pretty fast. After getting to my friends house and letting the motor cool. It took awhile to restart it. Then it just wouldn't run for crap after that. I was barely able to drive home. Everytime I put my foot into the gas it would just go into this crazy misfire where it seemed to run on maybe 2 cylinders. Well that ended when the car died in the middle of the road in heavy traffic. I got it towed and the next day found a puddle in the distributor. I cleaned everything up and put it back together and it was fine (read: it ran) for awhile.

It never went away and when I was in SanDiego on vacation, it just died completely after throwing a mean fit. I was barely able to get it back to the driveway as it was doing it down the street. The gauges went crazy, the car was puffing smoke and it was bucking/surging so bad I was barely able to roll it up the hill.

I ended up buying all kinds of crap including an ne ignition module which was like $72 and nothing helped. I decided to take the power cable off the distribution box in the engine bay and sand it. This got the car running ok for awhile.

Now the problem has come back and it's driving me insane. I'm afraid to drive it, I don't want to get stranded in crazy traffic again!

The next step I plan to take this weekend is to replace all the alternator/power/ground wiring and dissect the distribution box in hopes to find something.

In a nut shell: Symtoms include random bucking/loss of power (including electrical) from time to time and I get the ABS light alot. My voltage meter shakes all the time and just putting the power windows up makes things go haywire. I don't have any corrosion anywhere.

Would anyone have any suggestions on what to check?? At this point I'm close to taking it to a freaking mechanic becuase I don't have the time to mess with it during the week or the money to keep buying new parts.

Thanks!

 

[donjohn]

sounds like a bad dizzy? both times you've had problems w/ the car, messing with the distributor seemed to fix them... bad wires, distributor?

 

[HISSIN50]

John, what is the ABS code you get? If it is for loss of power, that would confirm that you have a bad primary connection (or strongly suggests that is at least one of the issues). It would be a little 'tell.'

What codes are you getting? The KAM has to have something stored (one would think), even if it was an intermittant issue.

I like the idea of redoing the primary charging wiring. Cables (even in the desert) can rot from the inside out. I am redoing my charging cable soon here too (the alt to distribution cable looks poopey).

Dont forget to hit grounds (I am sure you are/did). I am adding an extra ground from the block to chassis. As you know, too many grounds never hurts, but helps when other grounds are on the outs.

With the bouncing voltmeter, I would check real quick to ensure the alt cable is tight (been there and done that many many years ago). Had similar issues to what you do, but much less severe. I had forgotten to tighten the cable more than finger tight.

Just my andom ideas. I dont know of decent shops here in town but am willing to try and help ya out if you want.

Good luck bud.

 

[Zero Signal]

Thanks. Definitely gonna look into grounds. I'll look at all the wiring this weekend. I really hope it isn't the distributor. That MSD was like $300. Only reason I bought it was so I wouldn't have to deal with it again

Does anyone know where I can get new wiring other than CSK or AutoZone? I saw some wiring harneses online but they were more than $200!

 

[urban96]

Thanks. Definitely gonna look into grounds. I'll look at all the wiring this weekend. I really hope it isn't the distributor. That MSD was like $300. Only reason I bought it was so I wouldn't have to deal with it again

Does anyone know where I can get new wiring other than CSK or AutoZone? I saw some wiring harneses online but they were more than $200!

i would pick up some 4 and 8 gauge wire from a speaker shop along with connectors and make the wires yourself, a lot cheaper that way and you can hide the wires if you wanted.

 

[HISSIN50]

Urban might be onto something - that is what I am going to do. I ll be using some 4 or 2 AWG cable and a wafer fuse [instead of the factory fusible links] on the alternator cable.

Good luck John.

 

[Zero Signal]

Hmm, sounds like a good idea. I know where to get all that cheap from my car-stereo days. Does it really need a fuse though? Does the stock one have one? If so I might just do a circuit breaker like I did for the stereo.

 

[HISSIN50]

Hmm, sounds like a good idea. I know where to get all that cheap from my car-stereo days. Does it really need a fuse though? Does the stock one have one? If so I might just do a circuit breaker like I did for the stereo.

Regarding the alternator, yep there is at least one link. On my 94, it/they are at the end of the alternator cable, just as the cable begins to curl up toward the distribution center (right where the wire loom ends on my car). I remember seeing at least one 12 AWG link in there (I have a fox too and cant remember which car has two links - it might be the SN). But yeah, I dont see why that wont work (I am doing be because the cable is frayed at the alternator eyelet).

Good luck John

 

[mo_dingo]

Obviously you have an electrical gremlin that is affecting everything. When I hear that, I think your main connections are bad.

You didn't post whether you did or not, but did you try using the electrical devices with the car off? If stuff starts to go nuts w/o the car even running, you have just narrowed it down.

You aren't blowing any fuses, right?

I assume our cars have auto reset fuses in the main junction box under the hood. You might want to try to replace them with jumpers or regular style fuses for the time being, and eliminate them from the equation.

Next start at the main connections. Start with the ground wires at the battery, clean all contacts, reinstall them, and follow the wires to each ones termination point. Clean the contacts there.

You should do an ohm test to see if any of the wires are corroded inside the insulation at some wired point. If you get a high resistance reading, replacement of the wire will be necessary.

Then move to the positive wire, and repeat the same procedure.

The pos wire should eventually get to the distribution panel inside the car, with all your fuses. Same with the fuse panel in the engine compartment. It should be a heavy gauge wire connection to it, then it feeds power to each fuse and they go from there. Remove the main connections and clean, again. Repeat for all of the wire leading off the fuse panel. Obviously, you will need to do this one at a time, so you don't switch wires and your fuse diagram will be useless.

Can you tell me a very specific set of circumstances that you can repeatedly create the problems. (i.e. key on acc, raise window and play with radio, or key off, 12v cig lighter pressed in, and playing with e-brake).

The more specific you can be, the better.

But I still think you have a bad connection at one of the main connections for the 12V system. Something this widespread usually means a main power source.

The one thing I have learned from working on cars/RV's is that electrical problems are usually best solved with the following:

1. 30ft wire with aligator clips on each end. This will allow you to disconnect a ground, and run a "known to be good" ground connection. Same for a positive. This is more important when something isn't getting 12V but you are not sure whether it's a ground problem or positive problem.

2. A good DVM. You already have that, i assume. if you don't, I will laugh at you.....

3. Narrowing the problem to a specific sub system. When you think of it as one big cluster ***** the you start to get frustrated and lose focus. Once you realize that "Oh, when I disconnect power from the windshield wipers, everything else works", you can start solving the problem.

The phrase "Intermittent Problem" make me shudder. Not being able to always duplicate the problem makes diagnosis almost impossible. Once you know how to make it break, you can fix it.

Well, pep talk is over. Have fun man!!!! If you need a hand, give me a call.
Scott

 

[blksn955.o]

I had a very sim. issue, my oil press. guage would peg, my volt. guage would drop lower than normal, my coolant fans were not turning on at the correct times, slow starts that turned into no starts, and some funny driving around "surging". I ended up tracing it to a bad block to chasis ground. I took a length of 8ga wire around the ground points to check them out one at a time. I checked the batt. to chasis by "jumping" the length of wire and tried to start it (my problem had gone as bad as to not let the car start anylonger) no dice. I then moved to the batt. to block and tried to start it again with no reaction. Then at the header I wedged the wire in and loosend the strut tower bolt and got it tight and it started right up and the guages worked again. I made a replacement block to chasis ground and have not had an issue since.

 

[Zero Signal]

Where did you mount the new block to chassis ground? I'm guessing not actually at the header? Looks like I have plenty of stuff to check this weekend, thanks for the help!

 

[blksn955.o]

The header was just a quick test thing. I just mounted it were it was stock. It does mount on the frame close to the drivers wheel. If you had just been in some water and the connection was poor to start with maybe the water rusted the connection further. The other end of the ground is on one of the engine mount bolts. You may need to remove the oil filter for more room/access if it is that ground. Preaty crappy spot to put a ground that close to the road and with all the extreme temps by the headers and such.

 

[95opal]

Obviously you have an electrical gremlin that is affecting everything. When I hear that, I think your main connections are bad.

You didn't post whether you did or not, but did you try using the electrical devices with the car off? If stuff starts to go nuts w/o the car even running, you have just narrowed it down.

You aren't blowing any fuses, right?

I assume our cars have auto reset fuses in the main junction box under the hood. You might want to try to replace them with jumpers or regular style fuses for the time being, and eliminate them from the equation.

Next start at the main connections. Start with the ground wires at the battery, clean all contacts, reinstall them, and follow the wires to each ones termination point. Clean the contacts there.

You should do an ohm test to see if any of the wires are corroded inside the insulation at some wired point. If you get a high resistance reading, replacement of the wire will be necessary.

Then move to the positive wire, and repeat the same procedure.

The pos wire should eventually get to the distribution panel inside the car, with all your fuses. Same with the fuse panel in the engine compartment. It should be a heavy gauge wire connection to it, then it feeds power to each fuse and they go from there. Remove the main connections and clean, again. Repeat for all of the wire leading off the fuse panel. Obviously, you will need to do this one at a time, so you don't switch wires and your fuse diagram will be useless.

Can you tell me a very specific set of circumstances that you can repeatedly create the problems. (i.e. key on acc, raise window and play with radio, or key off, 12v cig lighter pressed in, and playing with e-brake).

The more specific you can be, the better.

But I still think you have a bad connection at one of the main connections for the 12V system. Something this widespread usually means a main power source.

The one thing I have learned from working on cars/RV's is that electrical problems are usually best solved with the following:

1. 30ft wire with aligator clips on each end. This will allow you to disconnect a ground, and run a "known to be good" ground connection. Same for a positive. This is more important when something isn't getting 12V but you are not sure whether it's a ground problem or positive problem.

2. A good DVM. You already have that, i assume. if you don't, I will laugh at you.....

3. Narrowing the problem to a specific sub system. When you think of it as one big cluster ***** the you start to get frustrated and lose focus. Once you realize that "Oh, when I disconnect power from the windshield wipers, everything else works", you can start solving the problem.

The phrase "Intermittent Problem" make me shudder. Not being able to always duplicate the problem makes diagnosis almost impossible. Once you know how to make it break, you can fix it.

Well, pep talk is over. Have fun man!!!! If you need a hand, give me a call.
Scott

great write up mo.i couldnt explain that one better myself.anytime you come across an electical problem you need to attack it in a specific order cause if you dont youll be running around in circles.start at the begging and trace the circuit all the way to the end.wire diagrams help a great deal.patience is another help.if you follow the steps mo dingo wrote you should have it in no time.no doubt about this gremlin,its a bad connection in the main power distibution.good luck

 

[mo_dingo]

great write up mo.i couldnt explain that one better myself.anytime you come across an electical problem you need to attack it in a specific order cause if you dont youll be running around in circles.start at the begging and trace the circuit all the way to the end.wire diagrams help a great deal.patience is another help.if you follow the steps mo dingo wrote you should have it in no time.no doubt about this gremlin,its a bad connection in the main power distibution.good luck

Oh yeah, that is a great point. Wiring diagrams help tremendously. You can follow every wire from it's start to it's termination point.

Unfortunately, due to the nature of his specific problem, a diagram won't help too much. I doubt it's a problem with a small wire going to this device, I think it's a more global problem, like one of his main connections is loose and stays connected sporadically.

That is another thing to mention. Every single wire connector needs to be examined. Sometimes it can be as simple as a bad crimp w/ a butt connector, or spade/loop connector.

I was trying to diagnose a electric cord reel on a coach a month ago, or so. A motor turns the cord reel, which allows the cord to be extended to plug the coach in.

However, the motor wouldn't operate. It could have been one of any number of things. There were 2 main power leads, pos and neg, then 8 wires that all ran to the switch which tell the motor which way to spin. These all went to a wiring block, similar to a car amplifier, tighten the screws, and it compresses the wires or connector. I tested the main wires, and had no 12V positive but had ground. So I start tracing the wires; They go a long distance, through many paths to get to the battery dist. center. I got frustrated, and asked for some help.

My master tech walked up to the cord reel, and pulled on one of the wires. The connector stayed on the block, but the wire pulled right out. The didn't crimp the wire enough, and it wasn't making a connection. He touched it to the block, and voila, the motor started to work.

I went and just laughed. So, I got a new connector, crimped it on, and figured I was done. I went on with a few jobs on the coach, and then had an epiphany. What if the ground wire, or any of the other wires were mis-crimped? I knew the motor worked now, but I thought, what the hell, give it a shot. So I pulled on the ground wire, and guess what, it pulled right out too......

So I could have fixed the motor, sent the coach on it's way, and it would have likely came back later (after a few bumps in the road loosened the ground wire), with the customer still complaining that the motor didn't work.

Sometimes, these electrical problems seem complex and over our heads. Usually, it's something really stupid.

Another thing that I thought I would mention. PCM's don't like it when they get into low voltage situations. You might want to verify that your battery is still good, and your alternator is charging. A battery should be around 2.1V per cell which means a total of ~12.6V. When the alternator is charging after initial start, you should read ~14.4V. After a few minutes, the voltage regulator should step the voltage down to ~13.8V. Just verify that.

You might want to reset & reprogram the computer your tweecer. Just a thought.
Scott