S197 vs previous years

Five Oh Brian said:

Your argument is flawed. Your 03 GT may run 13.30's, but it is far from stock. I owned a 2000 Mustang GT 5-speed coupe that ran a best of 13.85 (and a back up run of 13.87) bone stock on the factory tires. Ran mostly 13.90's, though, wiht the occasional 14.00 depending on weather and traction. Most 99-04 GT 5-speeds ran high 13's to low 14's bone stock. My 00 GT weighed 3180 lbs per our local DOT scales.

My 07 GT Coupe is an automatic car (180 lbs heavier than a manual) and weighs 3,530 all stock. Bone stock S197 GT's run mid 13's (manuals) to high 13's (automatics) in the 1/4 mile, so while they weigh a couple hundred pounds more than an SN95 GT, the extra 40hp more than overcomes the weight difference. So, stock vs stock, the S197 GT is quicker than the SN95 GT.

Now, my 07 GT Coupe is lightly modded (see sig below), but has run a best of 13.32 @ 102 in the 1/4 mile on the factory tires and 13.28 @ 102 with drag radials. So, my heavy S197 GT Automatic is just as fast as your moderately modded SN95 Manual.

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Seems like you are flawed too, I've seen DR's wipe off .5 on the strip, you on the other hand lost .06

03 sb 2v 5spd:13.38@104,Trick Flow intake plenum, steeds u/d pullies, upr x pipe, flows,FRPP 3.73s

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Plenum = 2~hp
UD's = 5~hp
X-pipe = 6-7~hp
Flows = 0hp

Best Drag Racing: 1/4 mile, 1.83 60' and 13.28 @ 101.92 mph.
Mods: FRPP 4.10 gears, 3800 rpm Stall Converter, Diablosport Predator 93 Octane Tune, CDC Sequential Taillights, Redline Tuning Elite Hood Struts, etc.

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You have a tune w/ higher octane, higher gear, your stall makes up for the auto to manual difference..


Ok he spanked you on trap speed, which means he's faster, he is putting down less power and is faster than you


99-04 are close to 3400lbs
05+ are closer to 3550lbs

Well the V6 is only .6L smaller in displacement than the V8, and that's with 2 less cylinders. It's a big V6. However, it's actually a fairly primitive V6 compared to most sport cars these days. The 350Z engine gets about the same milage with another 100 horses.

PoopDawg said:

And to the guy who said his Fox is faster then is s197... LOL. 331 with nitrous is about as far from "minor bolt ons" that I can think of.

Nick

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Actually, that was with the original 5.0, 160k on the odo... headers and a CAI were the only mods, though it was converted to a two seater, so there was a weight advantage.

So I read this post and had to go back and remind myself of how fast my '85 stock GT felt. Car and Driver January 1985 road test of the GT (title "time to catch the 302 and we're not talking Amtrak.") lists 0-60 at 6.4 secs and 1/4 mile 14.9/91 mph. Damn it was $11,391 brand new.

Mr_K_Code65 said:

So I had to go back and remind myself of how fast my '85 stock GT felt. Car and Driver January 1985 road test of the GT (title "time to catch the 302 and we're not talking Amtrak.") lists 0-60 at 6.4 secs and 1/4 mile 14.9/91 mph. Damn it was $11,391 brand new.

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Numbers that are comparable to the current V6.

but I digress......

stangdude2000 said:

i dunno, maybe it was me that was adding wrong, or i found bad info (more likely). did a VERY quick search for torque on the fox's and thought i remember seeing 285 ft-lb? the s197 do have 320 right? please correct me - i don't know a whole lot about the fox's. also don't know from which year i was looking at the specs.

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I have been away from the 5.0 tech forums for about 3 years, but from the few years I did spend there I am certain that 87 through 92 5 liters were rated at 225 hp and 300 ft/lbs of torque from the factory. It just sounded like the other guy was talking from first hand experience on a dyno with fox bodies in his first post so I wasn't going to argue about it. However it really sounded like some kind of distorted interpretation of what I have read and poopdawg later cleared up.

tomustang said:

Seems like you are flawed too, I've seen DR's wipe off .5 on the strip, you on the other hand lost .06

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I melted my factory tires to get it to launch hard enough to run 13.32. My average runs on the factory tires were inconsistent with some in the 13.3's, but many in the 13.4's and 13.5's. With drag radials, traction a non-issue, and I consistently run 13.30's all day now. So, I'd say that on average, the drag radials helped immensely. My prior Mustang (03 Mach 1) was a stick shift car with 4.30's, and drag radials were a must on that car. Best ET with factory tires was 13.36, while with D/R's it was 13.01.

I pride myself on making the most of a factory tire, so I don't believe my racing skills are flawed at all. That 13.32 run in my 07 GT on factory tires was with a 1.86 60' time. With drag radials, I'm pulling 60' times in the 1.8's all day long, while most people can't seem to pull under 2.0's and many are in the 2.2's and higher. I'd boast that I can launch a drag car much better than the average guy.

tomustang said:

99-04 are close to 3400lbs
05+ are closer to 3550lbs

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We have DOT truck scales on I-5 near my home, so I've weighed all of my cars there over the years. They claim to be accurate to within +/- 20 lbs. I always weigh them with a 1/4 tank of fuel, and I leave everything in the car as Ford delivered it for consistency sake. Here's what my last three Mustangs weighed....

3,180 lbs = 2000 Mustang GT 5-speed coupe.
3,380 lbs = 2003 Mach 1 5-speed coupe (heavier 32 valve motor).
3,490 lbs = 2007 Mustang GT automatic coupe (auto weighs 180 lbs more than manual according to Ford, FYI, so a manual GT coupe should weigh about 3,300 lbs roughly).

The only 99-04's that were 3400 lbs were the 32 valve cars (Cobras and Mach 1's) or convertibles. GT coupes were a couple hundred less, with the manual GT coupes being the lightest of the bunch, of course.

tomustang said:

Ok he spanked you on trap speed, which means he's faster, he is putting down less power and is faster than you

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My 07 GT has run 103 mph in the 1/4 mile earlier in the season when the temps were cooler (and that was before adding the stall converter and drag radials). My best ET of 13.28 just happened to be on a hot and muggy day so my trap speeds were lower. I posted uncorrected #'s right off the timeslip even though the DA was sky high that day.

If you'd like to accurately compare the two cars' timeslips, either line 'em up on the same track on the same day, or we could use DA corrections to level the playing field. For example, the correction for my car's best ET puts my car in the 13.05 range at about 103.5 mph. And I still haven't programmed my stall converter to lock up earlier in 4th gear, so it's slipping a lot at the end of the 1/4 mile (likely costing me 1-2 mph). Gotta have a custom tune written to lock up the converter (unless someone knows how I can do it myself with my Predator tuner?).

Also, keep in mind that Modular2v's car is a heavy breather with good airflow mods (great for a top-end charge to the finish line), while my car is sucking through a straw (factory airbox, factory exhaust, etc.). I didn't mod my car for high speed via airflow mods as I rarely need to pull hard at 100 mph (except at the drags 5 or 6 times a year). I modded my 07 GT with launching hard in mind, which I can use everyday on the street, and also benefit from at the track. Someday I will do airflow mods when the car would benefit from them (i.e. bigger cams and/or supercharger), but the 3V motor breathes fairly well when stock or lightly modded.

It would be interesting to compare short times for the two cars. My car's uncorrected true and correct numbers for the early part of the 1/4 mile are in the 1.80's for the 60', 5.40's for the 330', and 8.40's for the 1/8 mile (at roughly 82 mph). I'm curious how Modular2V's 2003 GT compares with these numbers.

Five Oh Brian said:

It would be interesting to compare short times for the two cars. My car's uncorrected true and correct numbers for the early part of the 1/4 mile are in the 1.80's for the 60', 5.40's for the 330', and 8.40's for the 1/8 mile (at roughly 82 mph). I'm curious how Modular2V's 2003 GT compares with these numbers.

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Here is a timeslip from my '00 5 spd GT. All I had done were Flowmaster mufflers and Eibach lowering springs. This was the first and only time I raced it(ran it maybe 6 times that night-this was the best run), so it might not be stellar, but it should be a decent reference.

Now, now, people. I think the question is; "should he keep the six stock and wait for something better or mod the 6 up". I'd keep her stock and wait for a special edition. I've heard about a possible Bullit with a 302? Sounds good to me. And if the body changes in '09 make you want to puke there will always be some used GT's to pick from. I'm not nockin' the six, it's just that if you're asking, I'm thinking that down the road you'd be playing the "now, if I'd started with a V8" game. Double the salary? Get what you really want - you earned it.

I have a 98 gt vert my very first time down the track i ran a 15.1@89 stock. Next Time I ran down the track I ran a 14.7@91 stock. I've also seen many 05 v6 run mid 15s and I've seen a 06 vert v6 with cold air, pulley and a tune run a 15.2@91.