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Sat+now Seized Engine, Advice

  • Thread starter Thread starter TRIBUNAL
  • Start date Start date Jul 5, 2016
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TRIBUNAL

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Jun 12, 2005
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#1
  • Jul 5, 2016
  • #1
Project car, Notch 86 4cyl to 8cyl Conversion
So basically I am trying to Finnish a long long time project that sat for a long time. over the last 10 years I ran the car without problems from time to time in the driveway. I have carb issues thanks to the fact that holley didn't set the bowls properly and I didn't know much about carbs. The engine didn't run all winter or spring, now I went to start it and it clicks but no movement.

The engine is a HO 302 out of a 91 Ford Cougar or Thunderbird limited or special edition I forget atm, It had low miles when I bought it, car was in an accident. I believe it had about 70k miles but no more than 80k. Oild has always looked perfect and never blew oil or water out of exhaust.

I put the breaker bad on the crank and clockwise it doesn't move at all, even with great force.. The driveway is a little bit declined so I pushed the car up it then rolled it down the driveway and dropped the clutch in 1st, skids a couple inches and stops, no movement of the crank.
I filled the spark plug holes with white lithium geese spray and nothing, I then tried diesel fuel overnight, nothing.
I then went to the store and got that PB Buster for rusted auto parts, nothing, even let it sit a couple days, nothing.
I notice all cylinders drain well except one doesn't seem to drain at all, or not much anyway.
What am I likely dealing with here? It is carbed and I sprayed the carb with a ton of carb cleaner in the fall, I also may not have run the engine after some of that cleaner got into the engine, could this maybe cause a buildup of carbon on the pistons, freezing/clogging them? Is it likely just rust I am dealing with here?

First let me say I am on a low budget here so spending 600-1000+ is not the answer I want to hear but if it's the only way I need to know.
So from my reading online my options at the moment are: I am leaning on number 2 right now because either way the heads probably have to come off...

1.) Keep doing this and messing with it every couple days to see if it moves.
My concern is if there is rust in there isn't that going to mark up the cylinders and pistons and maybe damage the rings?

2.) I could pull the heads and see what I am dealing with, maybe just clean up the top of the pistons and clean up the walls and perhaps this would be enough.

3.) Engine rebuild, which I really don't have the cash for unless most parts can be reused. If all I need to buy is the almost $400 rebuild kit from summit this would maybe be my first choice, but I'm concerned about what I could find while in there...

4.) Buy a used engine....

Thanks for any help or thoughts you can provide
 

2000xp8

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Jul 5, 2016
#2
  • Jul 5, 2016
  • #2
Some guys fill with trans fluid, let sit over night or a couple of days then use the breaker bar.
Also if you are going to rock it back and forth, second gear is better than first.

I'd also buy and explorer engine before a budget rebuild.
 

FoxMustangLvr

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#3
  • Jul 6, 2016
  • #3
Remove the piston stop in cylinder #1 and try again? Try rotating counter clockwise?
 

Black1987

my wife Bedazzled my input shaft
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#4
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  • #4
I would get some Marvel's Mystery Oil and soak the heck out of the cylinder you suspect. That stuff is like a trans fluid, oil, gas mix, works for me sometimes.

Also, when you are turning the engine (trying) the plugs are out, and the car's is in neutral correct?

If it were me, I would of had the heads off by now, but for most that means new gaskets/ head bolts, and a tired back. Pulling heads will let see what you are working with and determine the next course of action.


****BTW "Clicks: meaning starter doesn't even try to engage, sounds like a weak battery/bad/dirty connection
 

FoxMustangLvr

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#5
  • Jul 6, 2016
  • #5
I would remove all spark plugs, serp belt, and distributor to make it easiest to turn the crank (with car in neutral gear). With all that done and a 1/2" drive breaker bar my 7 year old son could turn the crank on a good working motor. So if you can't turn it then it's time to dig deeper (remove heads and/or oil pan) to inspect.

Good luck.
 
T

TRIBUNAL

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#6
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  • #6
Yea plugs are all out, I'll remove the distributor and drain that cylinder and fill with trans fluid, soak overnight and give it a go.
TY for all the help, I have a feeling a used engine might be inevitable at this point but I'll keep trying.
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
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#7
  • Jul 6, 2016
  • #7
I can't stand it any longer.....
 
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jrichker

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#8
  • Jul 6, 2016
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madmike1157 said:
I can't stand it any longer.....
Click to expand...
Spelling error driving you crazy?
 
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T

TRIBUNAL

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Jun 12, 2005
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#9
  • Jul 6, 2016
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So I put the tranny fluid in and I will remove the distributor tomorrow.
Did the second gear and rocked the car thing pretty aggressively, moved the tires, but engine didn't budge.

I have a new thought though, I think perhaps the cylinders are all draining and just 1-2 have pistons near the top so they fill real quick... If this is the case I'm a bit confused as to what the issue could be.

Also I started all this about 5-6 days ago.. I know in some places I read that it could take two weeks of soaking...
 

RaggedGT

Been here over a DECADE and still no CT
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#10
  • Jul 6, 2016
  • #10
Take the starter off
 
T

TRIBUNAL

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#11
  • Jul 6, 2016
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Man I don't want to get my hopes up that it's something that simple...
Take starter off, hmmm I suppose it's possible something in there is seized.
 
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90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands
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#12
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If you have some funds buy a scope from the auto parts store and look in the cylinders through the spark plug holes. Could save you a lot of headache and would let you see condition without taking cylinder heads off. Will the motor turn in the opposite direction ? If so, how far or how many turns ?
 
T

TRIBUNAL

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#13
  • Jul 6, 2016
  • #13
I tried turning it in the other direction and the nut started coming off the crank so... I marked the harmonic bal.. and it hasn't moved at all even rocking the car in gear.
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
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Jul 6, 2016
#14
  • Jul 6, 2016
  • #14
jrichker said:
Spelling error driving you crazy?
Click to expand...
Yes.

Since it was too much trouble,..I fixed it myself.
 
Last edited: Jul 6, 2016
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T

TRIBUNAL

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Jun 12, 2005
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Jul 7, 2016
#15
  • Jul 7, 2016
  • #15
UPDATE:
I took one starter bolt off and loosened the other so the starter moves around and seems fine.
A bucket of sweat later I got the distributor off.
Fan belt off.
put it in neutral and still no movement with a breaker bar and strong leg pushing on it clockwise.
So I guess I am going to begin preparing to remove the heads unless someone else has an idea.

Thanks for the help so far guys, much appreciated.
 

stykthyn

I want to measure mine. It doesn't look that tall.
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#16
  • Jul 7, 2016
  • #16
Is swap it
 
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T

TRIBUNAL

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Jun 12, 2005
103
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Jul 7, 2016
#17
  • Jul 7, 2016
  • #17
Update, took passenger valve cover off and head looks fine from above, oil in it. Going to remove the head now, we shall see.

Update,
Took all the bolts off except the head bolts. Didn't lift up the intake yet gonna do the rest over the weekend.
Radiator fluid looks normal.
Oil looks brand new.

I wonder if it's possible the flywheel is frozen on something....

Thinking on the explorer engines, They have the gt40p heads right?
 
Last edited: Jul 7, 2016

stykthyn

I want to measure mine. It doesn't look that tall.
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#18
  • Jul 7, 2016
  • #18
I wouldn't even bother taking the top end off at this point. If it's seized that badly Yank it and put it on a stand. Take off the oil pan and see what I'm the hell is up with the bottom end.
 
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CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
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#19
  • Jul 7, 2016
  • #19
I'm gonna say that it has a cracked cylinder from exposure to below zero temps.

Cylinder wall breakie, no crankie.
 
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stykthyn

I want to measure mine. It doesn't look that tall.
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#20
  • Jul 7, 2016
  • #20
madmike1157 said:
I'm gonna say that it has a cracked cylinder from exposure to below zero temps.

Cylinder wall breakie, no crankie.
Click to expand...
Agreed. If all safe attempts have been exhausted it's safe to say something catastrophic has happened like Mike said. I wouldn't even plan a rebuild at this point. Replacement is the key word. A new short block at this point.
 
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