Just bought my first 95 mustang gt and was told the timing was off a bit. I was driving it and when I stopped at a stop light it was idling and then just died. Started right up again but did it at every stop light if I let it idle!! I don't have a timing gun but was thinking of adjusting it by sound. My question is what am I listening for when adjusting it? It's got duel slp loudmouth exhausts that sound like monsters, 5 speed short shifter trans. New to mustang so please help me
Engine Setting Timing
- Thread starter Tpbhking149
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also i heard theres a way to read the engine codes using a paperclip. Ig thats true can someone tell me which slots on the obd1 sensor to put the paperclip into and how to read it!!! Any info would be greatly appreciated
Welcome to Stangnet 
In all honesty,if you are going to own this car for awhile, a timing light and code reader are going to be an extremely valuable tool,and a fairly cheap investment.
The timing may be off,but I doubt that’s why it’s dying at idle.
Here’s a link with a TON of info to check through for your idle problem. The list is a bit overwhelming,but I guarantee it will help you find your issue(s)
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/help-me-create-the-surging-idle-checklist.698148/
And here’s a couple links on setting timing/dumping codes-
And here’s a cheap timing light and code reader-
Hope some of this helps,
In all honesty,if you are going to own this car for awhile, a timing light and code reader are going to be an extremely valuable tool,and a fairly cheap investment.
The timing may be off,but I doubt that’s why it’s dying at idle.
Here’s a link with a TON of info to check through for your idle problem. The list is a bit overwhelming,but I guarantee it will help you find your issue(s)
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/help-me-create-the-surging-idle-checklist.698148/
And here’s a couple links on setting timing/dumping codes-
The idle bypass plate is a poor fix for a problem that should never have happened. You are stalling because of one of 2 things: overly advanced timing or overly lean idle mixture.
Setting the timing:
You can forget about anything beyond this point if you don't have access to a timing light. You will never get the timing set right without one.
Note: If you don't have access to a timing light, most of the larger auto parts stores will rent or loan one if you have a credit card or leave a cash deposit.
Paint the mark on the harmonic balancer with paint -choose 10 degrees BTC or 14 degrees BTC or something else if you have NO2 or other power adder. I try to paint TDC red, 10 degrees BTC white and 14 degrees BTC blue.
10 degrees BTC is towards the driver’s side marks.
Note: setting the timing beyond the 10 degree mark will give you a little more low speed acceleration. BUT you will need to run 93 octane to avoid pinging and engine damage. Pinging is very hard to hear at full throttle, so it could be present and you would not hear it.
Simplified diagram of what it looks like. Not all the marks are shown for ease of viewing.
ATC ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '!' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' BTC
---------------- > Direction of Rotation as viewed standing in front of the engine.
The ' is 2 degrees.
The ! is TDC
The ' is 10 degrees BTC
Set the timing 5 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 5 marks towards the driver's side to get 10 degrees.
To get 14 degrees, set it 7 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 7 marks towards the driver's side to get 14 degrees.
The paint marks you make are your friends if you do it correctly. They are much easier to see that the marks machined into the harmonic balancer hub.
Make sure that you set he timing when the engine is up to operating temperature.
At this point hook up all the wires, get out the timing light. Connect timing light up to battery & #1 spark plug.
Remove the SPOUT connector (do a search if you want a picture of the SPOUT connector) It is the 2 pin rectangular plug on the distributor wiring harness. Only the EFI Mustang engines have a SPOUT. If yours is not EFI, check for a SPOUT: if you don’t find one, skip any instructions regarding the SPOUT
Warning: there are only two places the SPOUT should be when you time the engine. The first place is in your pocket while you are setting the timing and the second is back in the harness when you finish. The little bugger is too easy to lose and too hard to find a replacement.
Start engine, loosen distributor hold down with a 1/2" universal socket. Shine the timing light on the marks and turn the distributor until the mark lines up with the edge of the timing pointer. Tighten down the distributor hold down bolt, Replace the SPOUT connector and you are done.
The HO firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.
Non HO firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
Setting the timing:
You can forget about anything beyond this point if you don't have access to a timing light. You will never get the timing set right without one.
Note: If you don't have access to a timing light, most of the larger auto parts stores will rent or loan one if you have a credit card or leave a cash deposit.
Paint the mark on the harmonic balancer with paint -choose 10 degrees BTC or 14 degrees BTC or something else if you have NO2 or other power adder. I try to paint TDC red, 10 degrees BTC white and 14 degrees BTC blue.
10 degrees BTC is towards the driver’s side marks.
Note: setting the timing beyond the 10 degree mark will give you a little more low speed acceleration. BUT you will need to run 93 octane to avoid pinging and engine damage. Pinging is very hard to hear at full throttle, so it could be present and you would not hear it.
Simplified diagram of what it looks like. Not all the marks are shown for ease of viewing.
ATC ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '!' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' BTC
---------------- > Direction of Rotation as viewed standing in front of the engine.
The ' is 2 degrees.
The ! is TDC
The ' is 10 degrees BTC
Set the timing 5 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 5 marks towards the driver's side to get 10 degrees.
To get 14 degrees, set it 7 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 7 marks towards the driver's side to get 14 degrees.
The paint marks you make are your friends if you do it correctly. They are much easier to see that the marks machined into the harmonic balancer hub.
Make sure that you set he timing when the engine is up to operating temperature.
At this point hook up all the wires, get out the timing light. Connect timing light up to battery & #1 spark plug.
Remove the SPOUT connector (do a search if you want a picture of the SPOUT connector) It is the 2 pin rectangular plug on the distributor wiring harness. Only the EFI Mustang engines have a SPOUT. If yours is not EFI, check for a SPOUT: if you don’t find one, skip any instructions regarding the SPOUT
Warning: there are only two places the SPOUT should be when you time the engine. The first place is in your pocket while you are setting the timing and the second is back in the harness when you finish. The little bugger is too easy to lose and too hard to find a replacement.
Start engine, loosen distributor hold down with a 1/2" universal socket. Shine the timing light on the marks and turn the distributor until the mark lines up with the edge of the timing pointer. Tighten down the distributor hold down bolt, Replace the SPOUT connector and you are done.
The HO firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.
Non HO firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
IAC doesn't work: look for +12 volts at the IAC red wire. Then check for continuity between the white/lt blue wire and pin 21 on the computer. The IAC connector contacts will sometimes corrode and make the IAC not work. The red wire on the IAC is always hot with the engine in run mode. The computer provides a ground for the current for the IAC. It switches the ground on and off, making a square wave with a varying duty cycle. A normal square wave would be on for 50% of the time and off for 50% of the time. When the idle speed is low, the duty cycle increases more than 50% to open the IAC more. When the engine speed is high, it decreases the duty cycle to less than 50% to close the IAC. An old-fashioned dwell meter can be used to check the change: I haven’t tried it personally, but it should work. In theory, it should read ½ scale of whatever range you set it on with a 50% duty cycle. An Oscilloscope is even better if you can find someone who has one and will help.
Automobile computers use current sink technology. They do not source power to any relay, solenoid or actuator like the IAC, fuel pump relay, or fuel injectors. Instead the computer provides a ground path for the positive battery voltage to get back to the battery negative terminal. That flow of power from positive to negative is what provides the energy to make the IAC, fuel pump relay, or fuel injectors work. No ground provided by the computer, then the actuators and relays don't operate.
We are going to supply an artificial ground path to the IAC instead of letting the computer supply the ground.
Start the engine and let it warm up.
Take one of the cheap inline fuse holders with a 5 amp fuse in it. Use it to bypass the blue/white wire to ground. You'll have to get creative probing the back side of the IAC wiring with safety pins or paper clips. Since the computer doesn't supply any voltage , but supplies a ground, that can't hurt the computer. The 5 amp fuse protects you and the wiring if there is an internal short in the IAC coil.
The engine should speed up when the fuse holder wire is grounded and slow down or stall when the fuse holder wire is disconnected from ground.
Recommended procedure for cleaning the IAC/IAB:
Conventional cleaning methods like throttle body cleaner aren’t very effective. The best method is a soak type cleaner used for carburetors. If you are into fixing motorcycles, jet skis, snowmobiles or anything else with a small carburetor, you probably have used the one gallon soak cleaners like Gunk or Berryman. One of the two should be available at your local auto parts store for $22-$29. Take the solenoid off the body and set it aside: the carb cleaner will damage some types of plastic parts. Soak the metal body in the carb cleaner overnight. There is a basket to set the parts in while they are soaking. When you finish soaking overnight, twist the stem of the IAB/IAC that sticks out while the blocker valve is seated. This removes any leftover deposits from the blocker valve seat. Rinse the part off with water and blow it dry with compressed air. The IAC/IAB should seal up nicely now. Once it has dried, try blowing through the bottom hole and it should block the air flow. If it doesn't block the airflow, there is still something that is gumming up the works. Reassemble and reinstall to check it out. Reassemble and reinstall to check it out.
Gunk Dip type carb & parts soaker:
Setting the base idle speed:
First of all, the idle needs to be adjusted to where the speed is at or below 600 RPM with the IAC disconnected. If you have a wild cam, you may have to raise this figure 100-150 RPM or so. Then the electrical signal through the IAC can vary the airflow through it under computer control. Remember that the IAC can only add air to increase the base idle speed set by the mechanical adjustment. The 600 RPM base idle speed is what you have after the mechanical adjustment. The IAC increases that speed by supplying more air under computer control to raise the RPM’s to 650-725 RPM’s. This figure will increase if you have a wild cam, and may end up between 800-950 RPM
Remember that changing the mechanical idle speed adjustment changes the TPS setting too.
This isn't the method Ford uses, but it does work. Do not attempt to set the idle speed until you have fixed all the codes and are sure that there are no vacuum leaks.
Disconnect the battery negative terminal and turn the headlights on. Leave the battery negative terminal disconnected for 5 minutes or so. Then turn the headlights off and reconnect the battery. This erases the computer settings that may affect idle performance.
Warm the engine up to operating temperature, place the transmission in neutral, and set the parking brake. Turn off lights, A/C, all unnecessary electrical loads. Disconnect the IAC electrical connector. Remove the SPOUT plug. This will lock the ignition timing so that the computer won't change the spark advance, which changes the idle speed. Note the engine RPM: use the mechanical adjustment screw under the throttle body to raise or lower the RPM until you get the 600 RPM mark +/- 25 RPM. A wild cam may make it necessary to increase the 600 RPM figure to 700 RPM or possibly a little more to get a stable idle speed.
Changing the mechanical adjustment changes the TPS, so you will need to set it. Anything between.6 and 1.0 volt is good. There is no advantage to setting it to .99; that is a BOZO Internet myth, complete with red nose and big floppy shoes.
When you are satisfied with the results, turn off the engine, and re-install the SPOUT and reconnect the IAC. The engine should idle with the range of 650-750 RPM without the A/C on or extra electrical loads. A wild cam may make this figure somewhat higher.
I'm the guy that created the original tech note on cylinder balance. test. That particular tech note is over 10 years old and has been updated and modified several times. See below to get the latest revision.
Cylinder balance test: use this to find dead or weak cylinders:
Revised 09-Sep-2017 Added reminder to write down the stored codes and engine running codes.
The computer has a cylinder balance test that helps locate cylinders with low power output. You’ll need to dump the codes out of the computer and make sure that you have the A/C off, clutch depressed to the floor and the transmission in neutral. Fail to do this and you can’t do the engine running dump codes test that allows you to do the cylinder balance test.
Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
Be sure to turn off the A/C, have the clutch depressed to the floor, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.
Here's how to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.
What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems.
This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and drivability problems
Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.
Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you dump the codes and then you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, clutch depressed to the floor and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.
Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.
Your 86-88 5.0 won't have a working Check Engine Light, so you'll need a test light.
See AutoZone Part Number: 25886 , $10
Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.
Or for a nicer scanner see www.midwayautosupply.com/Equus-Digital-Ford-Code-Reader/dp/B000EW0KHW Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader 3145.
It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $22-$36.
Order it at Walmart for a better price and free shipping
Write down the codes that the computer outputs since they will give you information on problems that are stored in the computer's memory
Cylinder balance test
If you have idle or IAC/IAB problems and the engine will not idle on its own without mechanically adjusting the base idle speed above 625-750 RPM, this test will fail with random cylinders pointed out every time it runs. The IAC/IAB must be capable of controlling the engine speed to run in the 1300-1500 RPM range. Playing with the base idle speed by adjusting it upwards will not work, the computer has to be able to control the engine speed using the IAC/IAB.
Fail to have a stable idle that is controlled by the computer and you will get random cylinders that fail for no reason. Again, playing with the idle stop screw to get the car to idle INSTEAD OF HAVING THE COMPUTER DO IT is so bad that it is like having BOZO the clown work on your car. DON'T DO IT!!!
Warm the car's engine up to normal operating temperature. With the test jumper in test position, start the engine and let it stabilize. It should flash a 10 and then a 4 and maybe an 11. If no 11, then there are other codes that will be dumped.
Write down the codes that the computer outputs since they will give you information that the computer found when it is running. These are often different from the stored codes.
One of the first tests it does is to open the EGR all the way, this will cause the engine to stumble and almost die. If the engine dies here then you have EGR problems.
To start the cylinder balance test, briefly floor the accelerator past 2500 RPM and let off the accelerator. The engine will stabilize at about 1300-1450 RPM and the cut off the fuel injectors one at a time. The engine speed will drop briefly and the computer will turn the fuel injector for the cylinder under test back on. Then it starts the process for the next cylinder. When it has sequenced through all 8 injectors, it will flash 9 for everything OK, or the number of the failing cylinder such as 2 for cylinder #2. Quickly pressing the throttle again up to 2500 RPM’s will cause the test to re-run with smaller qualifying figures.
Do it a third time, and if the same cylinder shows up, the cylinder is weak and isn’t putting out power like it should. See the Chilton’s Shop manual for the complete test procedure
See
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDXrkKS4jTE
for a visual tour through the process. There is no voice narration so you have to listen carefully for the engine sounds. I posted the link for the benefit of Stangnet members who had questions about how to do a cylinder balance test. I do not own that video and I am not the creator.
Do a compression test on all the cylinders.
Take special note of any cylinder that shows up as weak in the cylinder balance test. Low compression on one of these cylinders rules out the injectors as being the most likely cause of the problem. Look at cylinders that fail the cylinder balance test but have good compression. These cylinders either have a bad injector, bad spark plug or spark plug wire. Move the wire and then the spark plug to another cylinder and run the cylinder balance test again. If it follows the moved wire or spark plug, you have found the problem. If the same cylinder fails the test again, the injector is bad. If different cylinders fail the cylinder balance test, you have ignition problems or wiring problems in the 10 pin black & white electrical connectors located by the EGR.
How to do a compression test:
Only use a compression tester with a screw in adapter for the spark plug hole. The other type leaks too much to get an accurate reading. Your local auto parts store may have a compression tester to rent/loan. If you do mechanic work on your own car on a regular basis, it would be a good tool to add to your collection.
With the engine warmed up, remove all spark plugs and prop the throttle wide open with a plastic screwdriver handle between the throttle butterfly and the throttle housing. Crank the engine until it the gage reading stops increasing. On a cold engine, it will be hard to tell what's good & what's not. Some of the recent posts have numbers ranging from 140-170 PSI. If the compression is low, squirt some oil in the cylinder and do it again – if it comes up, the rings are worn. There should be no more than 10% difference between cylinders. Use a blow down leak test (puts compressed air inside cylinders) on cylinders that have more than 10% difference.
I generally use a big screwdriver handle stuck in the TB between the butterfly and the TB to prop the throttle open. The plastic is soft enough that it won't damage anything and won't get sucked down the intake either.
A battery charger (not the trickle type) is a good thing to have if you haven't driven the car lately or if you have any doubts about the battery's health. Connect it up while you are cranking the engine and it will help keep the starter cranking at a consistent speed from the first cylinder tested to the last cylinder.
You guys with idle/stall problems could save a lot of time chasing your tails if you would go through the Surging Idle Checklist. Over 50 different people contributed information to it. The first two posts have all the fixes, and steps through the how to find and fix your idle problems without spending a lot of time and money. It includes how to dump the computer codes quickly and simply as one of the first steps. I continue to update it as more people post fixes or ask questions. You can post questions to that sticky and have your name and idle problem recognized. The guys with original problems and fixes get their posts added to the main fix.
It's free, I don't get anything for the use of it except knowing I helped a fellow Mustang enthusiast with his car. At last check, it had more than 250,000 hits, which indicates it does help fix idle problems quickly and inexpensively.
And here’s a cheap timing light and code reader-
Hope some of this helps,
Yes, Welcome! There really is no way to set the timing without a timing light. Just doing it random can cause more problems. I agree a timing light is an inexpensive investment and easy to use. I also don't think timing is causing your stalling issue.
@ Tpbhking149
You guys with idle/stall problems could save a lot of time chasing your tails if you would go through the Surging Idle Checklist. Over 50 different people contributed information to it. The first two posts have all the fixes, and steps through the how to find and fix your idle problems without spending a lot of time and money. It includes how to dump the computer codes quickly and simply as one of the first steps. I continue to update it as more people post fixes or ask questions. You can post questions to that sticky and have your name and idle problem recognized. The guys with original problems and fixes get their posts added to the main fix.
It's free, I don't get anything for the use of it except knowing I helped a fellow Mustang enthusiast with his car. At last check, it had more than 250,000 hits, which indicates it does help fix idle problems quickly and inexpensively.
You guys with idle/stall problems could save a lot of time chasing your tails if you would go through the Surging Idle Checklist. Over 50 different people contributed information to it. The first two posts have all the fixes, and steps through the how to find and fix your idle problems without spending a lot of time and money. It includes how to dump the computer codes quickly and simply as one of the first steps. I continue to update it as more people post fixes or ask questions. You can post questions to that sticky and have your name and idle problem recognized. The guys with original problems and fixes get their posts added to the main fix.
It's free, I don't get anything for the use of it except knowing I helped a fellow Mustang enthusiast with his car. At last check, it had more than 250,000 hits, which indicates it does help fix idle problems quickly and inexpensively.
Yeah, don't try and set your timing by sound. Timing lights and code readers are cheap. I had a "beep" code reader for years. I just bought one that displays the code for like $20 on Amazon.
Kurt
Kurt
Yes, it's possible. Did it on a Toyota I used to have. No one does it that way. You'll thank me later.
Amazon product ASIN B000EW0KHWView: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EW0KHW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Kurt
Cool thx. So I need to replace the rotors on the rear end. Brakes are pretty much brand new, do I still need to decompress the brake line after swapping my rotors and putting the same brake back on,?? Had a tire and rim shoot off the back end so rotor got ground down! Gonna replace the rotors with new ones and put moroso high intensity studs on!!
If you want to fix it try this link
http://my.prostreetonline.com/2015/01/22/check-ford-mustang-ccrm/
http://my.prostreetonline.com/2015/01/22/check-ford-mustang-ccrm/
This the one I have but how do I wire in the red and black wires for the fan
Attachments
No, no second r3lay. This is what dude has on it I just don't know how to plug the wire into it
take the steps to repair the cooling fan correctly. there is a relay in the ccrm for the fan, that link will show you how to repair the factory stuff. if you need additional help I will look for more info for ya or one of the sn techs will help.
