shifting problems

MKTSC · Mar 4, 2004

ok so here's the story. i was driving about 2-1/2 hours on the freeway. went to downshift from 5th to 4th when getting off, and everything was fine. sped back up, went to slow back down, car wouldnt go into any gear. no grinding, just plain wouldnt go. i had to force it into any gear for about 20 minutes, then everything was perfect. i let the car cool down, took it for a spin, and no problems at all. since then it's given me some problems here and there.

i thought it was maybe the syncros, but it doesnt grind. sometimes it shifts perfect, sometimes it's a bit tougher than normal, and sometimes, it'll give me a real hard time going into gear.

i was thinking it was the quadrent. in which case i would upgrade to the steeda adjustable quadrent kit. does this sound like i diagnosed it correctly?

btw. the car is an 89 'stang with an 88TC motor. i also have a steeda tri-ax if that matters at all.

thanks in advance
-matt

Slugstang · Mar 4, 2004

Ensure you have enough fluid in the trans. If it's low it may cause the shaft inside to bind. I have also seen this happen when the shaft is worn out.

MKTSC · Mar 4, 2004

Slugstang said:
Ensure you have enough fluid in the trans. If it's low it may cause the shaft inside to bind. I have also seen this happen when the shaft is worn out.

i topped the fluid off after it started doing it. it's still done it a few times.

BELL · Mar 4, 2004

check the little small shifter cable on above the clutch fork, my 87 did wierd things before it snapped...

MKTSC · Mar 5, 2004

BELL said:
check the little small shifter cable on above the clutch fork, my 87 did wierd things before it snapped...

thanks, i replaced that little dogbone cable about 6 months ago. it was a couple thousandths longer than the one that was in there, which gave me a crappy pedal feel. i have one on order and i should pick it up today.

some guys on turboford are suggesting the pilot bearing, and some more are suggesting the shifter cable bushing around the firewall. some say the quadrant kit will remedy my problems, and some say that the pilot bearing needs to be replaced.

what do you guys think?
-matt

Slugstang · Mar 5, 2004

MKTSC said:
thanks, i replaced that little dogbone cable about 6 months ago. it was a couple thousandths longer than the one that was in there, which gave me a crappy pedal feel. i have one on order and i should pick it up today.

some guys on turboford are suggesting the pilot bearing, and some more are suggesting the shifter cable bushing around the firewall. some say the quadrant kit will remedy my problems, and some say that the pilot bearing needs to be replaced.

what do you guys think?
-matt

Pilot bearing.... WTF....I doubt it's the pilot bearing, the bushing or the quadrant although a quadrant is a good idea.

I think if it was clutch related it would grind trying to go into gear but you stated there was no grinding, that it just wouldn't move. This leads me to believe it's a bind in the tranny. Your problem seeems to sporatic to be a clutch problem. Another thing to check is the plastic insert piece where your tri-axe ball end fits into the tranny. Perhaps it's worn out or broken. That would be an easy check before you go pulling anything out or replacing everything.

MKTSC · Mar 5, 2004

Slugstang said:
Pilot bearing.... WTF....I doubt it's the pilot bearing, the bushing or the quadrant although a quadrant is a good idea.

I think if it was clutch related it would grind trying to go into gear but you stated there was no grinding, that it just wouldn't move. This leads me to believe it's a bind in the tranny. Your problem seeems to sporatic to be a clutch problem. Another thing to check is the plastic insert piece where your tri-axe ball end fits into the tranny. Perhaps it's worn out or broken. That would be an easy check before you go pulling anything out or replacing everything.

thanks i'll pull the shifter off tonight and see if i can see anything wrong. so you dont think it's the pilot bushing then? this is what one guy said:

It doesn't sound like a synchro prob, nor does it sound like something caused by a quadrant (rarely are either of those "intermittent"). It sounds, to me, like a bad pilot brg that's intermittently siezing onto the tip of the input shaft - I've seen this numerous times.

What happens, is that the needles begin to disintegrate (due to a lack of lubrication when the grease dries up) and the pieces get wedged between the brg shell and the tip of the input shaft, kinda like a sprag. If this is the case, what will probably wind up happening is that the shaft will become siezed where it can't be dislodged (without a trans R&R), OR the needles will turn to powder (more than likely, some of 'em already have) and the only support to the input shaft will be the frt & rr edges of the brg cage. Either way, the input shaft gets galled - sometimes very little (repairable w/emery cloth), sometimes a lot.

and another:

my '85 TC had similar problems to yours & in the end it was a combination of the clutch plate being unevenly worn & a busted pilot bearing. Perhaps the badly worn clutch plate was caused by the bad pilot bearing.

then this was brought to my attention:

What about the piece in the firewall. That little bushing goes bad and can cause exactly what he is descirbing.

Check the bushing around where the clutch cable comes out. It should be firm and not torn, if you can get some one to push in the clutch while you look at it to see if it affects anything.

Mine did the same exact thing and a fellow board member pointed this out to me. The steeda quadrent and firewall adjuster fixed my problem and now it has adjustability.

sorry for the long post, just want to get this clear before i go doing things that are not needed.

thanks a bunch guys.
-matt

MKTSC · Mar 5, 2004

also the clutch was replaced less than a year ago when i did the engine swap. so i mean it's not a 100k + clutch assembly. the fluid is full as well.

Slugstang · Mar 5, 2004

The pilot bearing is at the snout of the trans. If it goes bad they squeal or make a grinding sound. I have never heard of them cause the trans not to shift unless it has totally worn out he snout retainer. Or the saft has seized in the crank shaft itself. It would not sieze, unsieze, seize again. There is to much spinning and movment it would tear something up. You would hear something a grinding or squeal from this.

A warp flywheel or presure plate will cause shuttering when taking off in gear not a no shift problem. Holding the clutch in slightly as to not apply all the presure plate force and taking off will let you know if it's warped. You will fell it slip and grab, slip and grab. Shuttering!

The cable bushing in the firewall would cause a shifting problem but it would be more of a grinding going into the gears as oppsoed to no shift at all. It would have to be totally worn out and possibly missing to cause what you are describing.

I don't think a quadrant would be so sporatic. I have had them go bad. Once it stripes the tooth off you will notice it. Clutch feels different and it would grind. you have no grind.

Check that bushing in the trans under the shifter ball. I'll bet that is probrably it. it's worn or broken from hard shifting. It's plastic. Other wise I would say the shaft from the shifter to the syncrose is seizing possibly from lack of lubrication or just plain wear.

If it turns out to be the bushing let me know I have a few laying around.

MKTSC · Mar 5, 2004

as far as grinding, the only grinding i get is into reverse. i just figured the reverse syncro went out. sometimes it's fine into reverse. in fact most of the time it's fine into reverse, but sometimes it grinds pretty bad. so this plastic bushing you speak of. is this what you're talking about?:

you're probably right. if i remeber correctly when i installed the shifter about a month and a half ago, it was in rough shape. this could really cause this problem??? hmm. you said you had some laying around, but could i acquire one at a parts store?? if not, shoot me an email, and i'd be happy to mail you a check for one:
supercoupe@hotmail.com

thanks for your help. i might just buy the quadrant kit anyways. my pedal feel sucks, and it's a possibility that it might still be the problem.

thanks again man
-matt

Slugstang · Mar 5, 2004

I work part time in a tranny shop in the evenings so I called my boss who is much more knowledgeable than I and explained your problem. He does not think it's that bushing although if it's worn it should be replaced as this can cause mis-shifts and a sloppy shifter feel.

This is what he said he would check first.

There are rails that hold the forks that are attached to the top of the tranny case. This is the top cover on the main body of the tranny. There are little ball bearings which after time dis-lodge and cause an intermittent seizure in shifting. Once the ball works it's way back in to the correct spot it will shift again. He suggests removing the top and checking these ball bearings and the surfaces around them for wear. If it looks worn or wallowed out replacing the top of the tranny that holds the forks. Any 4cyl to a V8 T% top will work.

Another thing he told me is that there is a pocket bearing that holds the shaft that runs from the shifter to the forks. If this collapses you will experience what you are describing but he said usually this results in no shifting at all rather than intermittent seizures.

I will dig up that plastic bushing for you and email you. You can have it for shipping costs. My boss is checking to see if he has an extra top lying around in the shop. I'll let you know about that as well.

MKTSC · Mar 5, 2004

thanks a bunch man, i'll be awaiting your emails. i was really hoping that i wouldnt have to drop the tranny though.

-matt

pairofnines · Mar 5, 2004

MKTSC said:
thanks a bunch man, i'll be awaiting your emails. i was really hoping that i wouldnt have to drop the tranny though.

-matt

eek, I'm going through the same thing with my T5, but today it really started giving me fits. I guess this will be my weekend project. *sigh*

MKTSC · Mar 8, 2004

update: i took the shifter off to see if something was viusally wrong. the shaft that goes from the shifter "cup" where the ball of the shifter seats into the transmission, was dry of lubricant, so i applied grese to it. there was a small hole in the top of the shaft that appeared to be an oiling hole. since i reinstalled the shifter, it's been marginally better with far less hook ups than before. it seems as though greasing that shaft somehow improved the problem.

is this just a fluke? or is it possible that this contributed to the problem? also can anyone confirm whether or not that hole is indeed an oiling hole?

thanks again for all your help guys, coulnt do it without you.
-matt

Slugstang · Mar 8, 2004

MKTSC said:
update: i took the shifter off to see if something was viusally wrong. the shaft that goes from the shifter "cup" where the ball of the shifter seats into the transmission, was dry of lubricant, so i applied grese to it. there was a small hole in the top of the shaft that appeared to be an oiling hole. since i reinstalled the shifter, it's been marginally better with far less hook ups than before. it seems as though greasing that shaft somehow improved the problem.

is this just a fluke? or is it possible that this contributed to the problem? also can anyone confirm whether or not that hole is indeed an oiling hole?

thanks again for all your help guys, coulnt do it without you.
-matt

Asked my Boss about this he said in 1992 the T5 was upgraded with a slinger to sling oil up to the shift shaft and pocket bearing. Pre 92 T5's don't have this unless it was upgraded with one during a rebuild. This is supposedly why the rails and shifter forks get worn out. Lubbing it will deffinitly help but if the shaft, rails and forks are already worn out it will not cure it. I would try and lub the hell out of it first before pulling it. Also you can drain about a quart of fluid and then dump a quart of fluid in the shifter area and let it run down through everything.

Still looking for the plastic inserts, I know I have them I just got to find them.

Mike

MKTSC · Mar 8, 2004

Slugstang said:
Still looking for the plastic inserts, I know I have them I just got to find them.

Mike

actually, when i pulled my shifter, the one in there was in perfect shape. thanks though! should i use ATF, or grease to lube that shaft? i used general purpose grease over the weekend. you know if there's any good way to force grease around that shaft and into the transmission??

also any word on that being an oiling hole??

thanks a bunch for all your help

shifting problems

MKTSC

New Member

Slugstang

New Member

MKTSC

New Member

BELL

MKTSC

New Member

Slugstang

New Member

MKTSC

New Member

MKTSC

New Member

Slugstang

New Member

MKTSC

New Member

Slugstang

New Member

MKTSC

New Member

pairofnines

New Member

MKTSC

New Member

Slugstang

New Member

MKTSC

New Member

Similar threads

shifting problems

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency