Short Block ...How much HP can it handle

[91StangLX]

How much horsepower does the board think a cast short block can hold. What I mean is a short block with cast pistons and cast crank with OEM rods.



I found a really good deal online for a remanfuctured engine useing all cast componets.





This seems like a really good deal. Just want to know if anyone has had any experience with a cast short block and do you think it would hold up to daily driving and drag strip duty. I will be putting about 325 to the rear wheels after assembled.



Here is the specs of the engine and the link.

302 engine - short block
block-------------------late or early bored .030
crank-------------------50 oz or 28 oz turned .010
rods--------------------stock ford
pistons-----------------silv-0-lite .030
rings--------------------hastings cast .030
bearings----------------clevite 77 .010
gaskets-----------------fel- pro
bolts---------------------stock ford
camshaft----------------PBM performance 292/.512 flat tappet cam
lifters---------------------hydraulic
timing chain------------cloyes double roller
oil pump----------------melling M-68

this engine assembled and ready to install $799 + options + shipping

options - add $100
timing cover------------injected or early w/ fuel pump
oil pan-----------------stock front sump or double hump
damper------------------stock 50 oz or 28 oz

http://cgi.msn.ebay.com/ebaymotors/...tem=2474642337&category=33615&sspagename=WDVW

 

[MustangPunk302]

Tell me what you plan on throwing on it and I'll tell you if it can handle it...

 

[88stangmangt]

around the corner of 500 or so with a girdle and arp studs all around.

 

[MustangPunk302]

around the corner of 500 or so with a girdle and arp studs all around.

You can toss a rod, or walk a cast crank, and not to mention melt a cast piston way before 500 hp... So I was wondering what his plans where. The stock block is known to handle about 500 hp, not the bottom end...

 

[91StangLX]

Tell me what you plan on throwing on it and I'll tell you if it can handle it...

Everthing in my signature will be bolted on. I was also think of adding a 6 PSI ATI procharger or maybe a Zex 125 system.

 

[MustangPunk302]

Without the power adders you'd be more then fine. The power adders could be to much depending on how your gonna be with it. The nitrous can take out a cast piston easier then hell, only have to lean out once. The blower and gt-40p heads you gotta watch your compression ratio, though only 6 psi you'll prolly be safe, detonate once though and it could be the end. It's really a "it'll take it or not" deal, they're cast bottom ends that wouldn't hold 250hp, and some can get 500+hp though they of cousre know they're walking on a tight rope.. I think it'll hold up to your setup. Also be careful who you buy your shortblocks from, when a engine fails on me because of faulty tolerances and specs, I like to at least know the man that built it...

 

[88stangmangt]

true you "can" do anything you could also suck a bird in through your intake and throw a rod that way. but if you build the right bottom end with the right studs and girdle you could easily beat the $hit outta it everyday makeing 500+hp.

 

[87'GTstang]

With the exceptions of non-moving parts (such as the block or various housing assemblies and such), casted items are the cheapest and worst way to go - no other way to say it. At the very least you want hypereutectic pistons. Even then though - avoid heavy power adders like S/C and T/C and especially nitrous - they'll flat out destroy cast pistons and over time hyper. as well. Also I don't like some of the stock parts they use, does stock bolts and mainly stock rods mean they just re-use them again??? The camshaft is pure junk - don't get flat-tappets, pure waste of money because you're buying it with the purchase (junk lifters as well - you want a roller setup). I personally wouldn't go for the deal because you can build the same basic econo-engine they did for less if you were to do it yourself. You get what you pay for is all I say, but just don't abuse the engine or drive it hard - it won't withstand it anywhere near as long as the stocker can.

 

[87'GTstang]

Wait, where did you get all the specs from? Not to mention some of the info you listed doesn't match the web page on ebay nor the price...???

 

[91StangLX]

Wait, where did you get all the specs from? Not to mention some of the info you listed doesn't match the web page on ebay nor the price...???

He emailed me the specs of the engine and I copied and pasted them here. I was told this engine would produce 350 hp with no problem. It seems like I really good deal but I might have to look elsewhere. Still trying to decide though. I do not have a lot of money right now and need to get my car back on the road.

 

[MustangPunk302]

true you "can" do anything you could also suck a bird in through your intake and throw a rod that way. but if you build the right bottom end with the right studs and girdle you could easily beat the $hit outta it everyday makeing 500+hp.

Studs and gridles aren't proven to strengthen a block and diffentlently not the bottom end. If your gonna melt or crack a piston, or throw a rod, the gridle didn't do you **** did it??... They're there to more safeguard incase of the event of engine failure. I'm just straight up telling him what can and is very possible throwing power adders at cast cranks, and more importantly pistons. Like I said before though, it's possible your right to get the 500+ hp mark on a cast bottom ends, BUT your on a tight rope and you know it....

 

[88stangmangt]

Studs and gridles aren't proven to strengthen a block and diffentlently not the bottom end. If your gonna melt or crack a piston, or throw a rod, the gridle didn't do you **** did it??... They're there to more safeguard incase of the event of engine failure. I'm just straight up telling him what can and is very possible throwing power adders at cast cranks, and more importantly pistons. Like I said before though, it's possible your right to get the 500+ hp mark on a cast bottom ends, BUT your on a tight rope and you know it....

since when does a girdle not strengthen a block? it doesnt keep it from flexing? are you sure about this? ya the girdle wont help from detotonation or throwing a rod but it will help keep flexing and keep your crank from possible walking. why does ever one dog on the stock stuff? like my father says 30+ year mechanic he has never seen a crank crack or blow up only rods and pistons come threw the side of the block. i agree with you on the cast piston heads and the hypers as well. i still know tons of people who are rollin low to mid 500's on stock bottom ends with no problem at all but yes you are on borrowed time no dought.cool???????????????

 

[87'GTstang]

He emailed me the specs of the engine and I copied and pasted them here. I was told this engine would produce 350 hp with no problem. It seems like I really good deal but I might have to look elsewhere. Still trying to decide though. I do not have a lot of money right now and need to get my car back on the road.

Well the specs you were emailed and the specs on the listing don't match, that's why I couldn't figure if it was the same thing that you posted and the link you pasted. Anyway, horsepower figures are always a "If you do this you will have this much hp" type of gimmick. Never trust it and never believe it unless they guarantee it and you do exactly what they did. On the other hand, you are on a tight budget as you said and anything is worth a try, but just as a suggestion that you can take or leave either way: I would spend the money on better matching the internals and getting better quality parts to make an all-around strong engine that can withstand quite a bit now, and let all the dreaming of the blower or nitrous wait. If you get that engine right there now and go ahead and get whatever power adder you're thinking of - a guaranteed engine failure will follow it because of the cheapness/low quality components of it.

 

[sleeper89]

If you get that engine right there now and go ahead and get whatever power adder you're thinking of - a guaranteed engine failure will follow it because of the cheapness/low quality components of it.

i disagree with this statement. at a goal of 350rwhp he should have no problem whatsoever with the short-block. lots of people run boost/juice on cast parts. ****It's ALL in the tune*** if you tune on a dyno with a wideband 02, AND you tune it conservatively to cover environmental fluctuations there will be no problem running 350rwhp.

-steve

 

[StangLou]

We have a guy in our car club that pushes 480+ on his 5.0 stock short block and internals. He has been doing it that way for some time, but his luck ran out over the weekend. Sun he was at the track and he bent a couple rods. LOL they hammered them back straight so he could drive it home . Needless to say he is now getting better internals, but wants to keep the stock block . Im going with a race prep block for my 5.0 project. I want it done right the first time, dont want to worry about how long Im going to be on borrowed time. Thats just me though. I know other people who have 400+ to the wheels on stock block and internals and have ran that way for years no problem. A lot of it is how aggressive your tune is, the other part is just plain luck.
You should be fine with around 350, but if you go past that, I would look into better parts.

 

[D347643]

i know of more than 3 people who have over 500rw. especially if you plan on running a turbo, as long as you have a nice tune and a boost timing master and avoid detonation you can push it pretty high. if you detonate then you will bust something or bend a rod, etc, but its my personal opinion that at 500rw i think you would bend an h beam anyway.

 

[87'GTstang]

i disagree with this statement. at a goal of 350rwhp he should have no problem whatsoever with the short-block. lots of people run boost/juice on cast parts. ****It's ALL in the tune*** if you tune on a dyno with a wideband 02, AND you tune it conservatively to cover environmental fluctuations there will be no problem running 350rwhp.

-steve

Oh I never said you couldn't do it, but seriously, who is going to "tune conservatively"? You can try it but all I have to say is give it some time and the casted components WILL fail - time is all you need. I don't know about you but I take more comfort in running around knowing i've got a capable block as opposed to sweating it off thinking to myself when will it fail? I never bashed the stock cast iron block. I even said it'd be fine in a previous post. I am fully aware how capable the stock block is.

Just so you know or if you don't, when you refer to the stock block handling that much stress, Ford built these things with: (referring to 86'-92')
- cast Iron block (we know it's bullet-proof)
- Forged connecting rods (a must)
- Cast crank (likely to fail at the point the block does)
- Forged pistons (the reason the stocker was known as bullet proof)

Yes these things can be hooked up and run fine all day because simply put, Ford built em' better than they had to be! I still disagree with your assessment on that package however, it's a cheap deal because it is put together with less than capable parts. It's fine as a replacement, but for power-pushing like it's intentions later on, it will fail sooner or later.

 

[91StangLX]

We have a guy in our car club that pushes 480+ on his 5.0 stock short block and internals. He has been doing it that way for some time, but his luck ran out over the weekend. Sun he was at the track and he bent a couple rods. LOL they hammered them back straight so he could drive it home . Needless to say he is now getting better internals, but wants to keep the stock block . Im going with a race prep block for my 5.0 project. I want it done right the first time, dont want to worry about how long Im going to be on borrowed time. Thats just me though. I know other people who have 400+ to the wheels on stock block and internals and have ran that way for years no problem. A lot of it is how aggressive your tune is, the other part is just plain luck.
You should be fine with around 350, but if you go past that, I would look into better parts.

Yes I do not plane on going over 350hp... I am thinking of installing a ZEX 125 kit though. It would only be used sparingly.

 

[SmockDoiley]

Its a crappy deal if you ask me. They cant even guarantee if your getting a 28 oz or a 50 oz crank which means you cant reuse your old balancer and flywheel. Also, a factory 5.0 comes with forged TRW pistons and then hypers in 93. This engine cant even do that with its cast pistons. And dont get me started on the cam, flat tappet? Please!! Go to a parts store like Kragen and buy a reman. 302 for like $700, and for an added 100 bucks you get a 36k mile warranty. And do not use a power adder on cast pistons. Stock 5.0s can because they use forged pistons from the factory.