Short cam life with new oils

woodsnake · Dec 21, 2011

Well, I think I killed the cam in my 68. I do not understand how I could have killed it so quickly. But, I was using regular engine oil, nothing with added zinc, or zddp.
I've heard of other cases of this on the internet, but how often has it either happened to you, or somebody you know directly?
This will be my 3RD Edelbrock cam, and I am not happy about it failing!@

Slobin3d · Dec 21, 2011

I can't say for your mustang, But with my Scouts it was a serious issue, People burning them up within hundreds of miles. Lack of lube in the Oil and soft metal.

jlangholzj · Dec 21, 2011

wow....i guess I've always heard guys preaching "run the zinc oil!!" but i also know plenty of guys running synthetics in their old mustangs with no problem. Are you sure its not something else? Did a oil hole in one of the cam journals get plugged during the swap?? proper pre-lube and new lifters every time one is chewed through?

Also it it in one particular spot every time or is the whole thing roasted? how did all your cam bearings look?

iskwezm · Dec 21, 2011

when my stroker was first built,I wiped out 3 lobes within 20 miles.After that i went to a roller to avoid these problems.Back in the 90's i did MANY cam swaps on my car and my buddies and never had a issue.

grainboy · Dec 22, 2011

Y

woodsnake said:
Well, I think I killed the cam in my 68. I do not understand how I could have killed it so quickly. But, I was using regular engine oil, nothing with added zinc, or zddp.
I've heard of other cases of this on the internet, but how often has it either happened to you, or somebody you know directly?
This will be my 3RD Edelbrock cam, and I am not happy about it failing!@

You cant use conventional gasoline engine oil in earlier flat tappet cam engines. You either need an additive, or use oil specd for diesel engines, such as Rotella T 30, or Delo 400. Those two still have the additives to let a cam survive. Full synthetic isnt a fix either.

grainboy · Dec 22, 2011

grainboy said:
Y

You cant use conventional gasoline engine oil in earlier flat tappet cam engines. You either need an additive, or use oil specd for diesel engines, such as Rotella T 30, or Delo 400. Those two still have the additives to let a cam survive. Full synthetic isnt a fix either.

One other thing, are you breaking the cam in properly when it is installed? You need at least 15 minutes at 2000-3000 rpm to sling oil up to the cam while it is breaking in. Failure to do so will result in way early failure.

Hack · Dec 22, 2011

There are a few details here. One is that a higher lift, performance cam will be harder on lobes than a factory cam. The high performance cam can use better lube.

Another thing is that modern cams have more aggressive grinds than older cams did. Another factor that means you need better lobe lube.

I agree that startup on new parts is very critical. A lot of the lube for cams comes from oil slinging off the rotating assembly. Getting the correct break in lube, starting the car on the first try, priming the oil system immediately before starting the engine, running the cam in for 20-25 minutes at 2500 or so, REMOVING inner valve springs on performance engines when multiple springs are used - ALL the details must be right or you may wipe a lobe out.

woodsnake · Dec 22, 2011

The work I just did, did not include a new cam and lifters, I had them installed before I did the upgrades. The first cam was a huge learning curve on springs, pushrods, all that. This time it was nothing more than R&R parts. I followed procedure from comp cams on the valve train adjustment to the letter. I would think you would be hearing a lot more about engine failures in general, rather than just new cams. I only had a couple of thousand miles on the old set up, this should not be happening. I'm going to go over the VT adjustment one more time, and if that doesn't cure it, then it will wait until I get back from my next deployment. I did swap out the distributor, (one with stock springs) and that had no noticeable affect on the engine noise.

Rick 91GT · Dec 22, 2011

What kind of seat pressure are you running? Who's lifters? Is this a 302 or 351 based motor? What number lifter (what cyl) are you tearing up?

67GTFB · Dec 22, 2011

fwiw ... I mechanic friend who also does my heavy engine work, etc. told me about this exact issue ... now, what he says is that since the industry moved to roller cams for almost all production cars, the oil that is now sold is not what it used to be back when when most of us ran tappet camshafts .... he says he has seen many new (flat tappet) cams getting wiped smooth because of this -- including small engines in mowers, etc .... I just did a crate motor with a roller using Valvoline XR 20W-50 (think that's right) -- the racing stuff with all of the good additives .... that's what my engine supplier recommended .... so I would be suspect of running a flat tappet cam with any standard motor oil today .... roller cams should be OK with good oil of any brand .... but this story is not unusual .... sorry about the troubles and good luck with repairs .... -- 67GTFB

horseballz · Dec 22, 2011

woodsnake,
You said:
"This time it was nothing more than R&R parts." Out of curiosity, did you "R&R" the lifters? And if so, did they go back into the same holes?
Just Asking,
Gene

jlangholzj · Dec 22, 2011

horseballz said:
woodsnake,
You said:
"This time it was nothing more than R&R parts." Out of curiosity, did you "R&R" the lifters? And if so, did they go back into the same holes?
Just Asking,
Gene

this, and also you never answered my question on what exactly the carnage was. Specific spots? was it on the cam bearings or the lifters....what exactly was worn out?

PoppyMod · Dec 23, 2011

woodsnake said:
Well, I think I killed the cam in my 68. I do not understand how I could have killed it so quickly. But, I was using regular engine oil, nothing with added zinc, or zddp.
I've heard of other cases of this on the internet, but how often has it either happened to you, or somebody you know directly?
This will be my 3RD Edelbrock cam, and I am not happy about it failing!@

Hi,
Your third? After my first, I converted to a roller. If you wiped any lobes, I guess you know by now, you'll have to totally strip and clean the engine.
Third, really?

woodsnake · Dec 23, 2011

I am leaving for Kuwait in a few weeks, so I have had to put the project on hold. I have not removed any parts, since I tried the other distributor. I built the motor when I was going to school to be an auto tech. I got the wrong springs from summit, didn't measure for push rod length, (Machine shop guy said not to worry about it). So, after THAT learning curve, the second cam went in, with the "right" springs, installed height, and pushrods. Got about two and a half K miles on the car, and decided the time was right for the upgrades I had been acquiring. New heads, ignition upgrades, and add the disc brakes. The R&R part was the heads. It was perfect before we put a load on it, I am hoping that I have a valve mis-adjusted,
and that I can cure the problem that way. If not, I think I will get a different cam. The split pattern seems to be bad luck for me.

Phils69 · Dec 23, 2011

I had mine installed 5 years ago when a lot of people were having issues wiping lobes. My guy used GM engine oil supplement and Rotella T oil. Never had an issue. Just swapped the cam 2 weeks ago to improve idle & drivability. So far so good. Gotta have that that zinc. Maybe you could switch to another after the breakin period but I just run the Rotella for safeties sake.

Realmongo · Dec 23, 2011

I have been buying the Rotella now that they have come out with 10w-30. The problem gets worse with stiffer valve springs.

68stang351 · Dec 23, 2011

I have read a lot of info on this, and I still get different evidence all the time about new oils and cam life.

I decided that for me it was easier just to play it safe and use an oil with a high zinc content.

I found out that Rotella 30wt has like 1100 or 1200 ppm of zinc, so I use that plus a blue bottle of STP oil treatment that specifically says on the front label that it contains ZDDP. No problems yet, better safe that sorry.

woodsnake · Dec 24, 2011

I didn't realize that rotella made a 10w-30......

jlangholzj · Dec 24, 2011

woodsnake said:
I didn't realize that rotella made a 10w-30......

yup, and before that i was using their 0w-40 or whatever it was. I've never had any problems either.

but i still find it strange that you're wiping lobes that fast....

horseballz · Dec 24, 2011

If you want a good synthetic with zinc, Schaeffer Racing oil is pretty cool and at least a little less pricey than Royal Purple, Joe Gibbs, etc.

http://www.schaefferoil.com/

My $.02,
Gene

Short cam life with new oils

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