Sick and tired of pinging!! Water injection?

mustangt562 · Aug 10, 2004

I am sick and tired of pinging so I have decided to get water injection from snow performance. The boost cooler for na cars. Does anyone have this unit and if so can you post a pic of your engine bay so I can see where to mount this thing and if you have it on an NA car was there any performance gains and how do you like it? thanks brothers

Rootus · Aug 10, 2004

You should be able to fix pinging by adjusting the timing. Water injection on a NA motor seems like overkill to me.

mo_dingo · Aug 10, 2004

You are going to lose performance, no doubt about it.

If you are serious about solving your pinging problems, why don't you have your car dyno tuned or get a WB O2? That would tell you if you are lean due to lack of fuel.

If your a/f is good, then you probably have hot spots on the combustion chambers and need the top end cleaned.

Solve the problem, don't "bypass" it.
Scott

law · Aug 10, 2004

Forgive my ignorance but what is a WB 02?

mustangt562 · Aug 10, 2004

mo_dingo said:
You are going to lose performance, no doubt about it.

Scott

Do you know Ill loose performance or are you just guessing? Please tell me why ill loose performance cause the web page says Ill gain like 10-15 ponies.

HERE IS THE AD

Naturally aspirated/stock compression:
With naturally aspirated engines with less than 10:1 compression, water/methanol is used typically in warm climates to get the intake temps back to 60°f. Benefits include: 10-15 HP increases from air density increases and full timing, Increased gas mileage, and carbon free combustion chambers. Activation is by a throttle switch adjusted for onset engine load. With this application, the nozzle is sized so that no more than 10% of total fuel consumption at peak flywheel HP is injected.

http://www.snowperformance.net/proddetail.asp?prod=auto025

94TURBO5 O · Aug 10, 2004

I just bought one with the extra tank and I will be installing mine possibly next week. I gotta move the battery to the trunk to accomodate the kit.

VIPERn94Five-0 · Aug 10, 2004

i doubt you will actually gain any power....the deal is this...it works like water injection or and intercooler on a boosted car...they dont actually give you anypower...they just cool the charge temps to make things safer...in reality an intercooler will usually LOSE power at the same boost levels because the cooling will cause a pressure drop across the intercooler. i bet you gain 0hp from that mod, if you dont lose any....

you need to FIX the problem and not try and find away around it....

mustangt562 · Aug 11, 2004

I have tried everything already!!!

Every Da** suggestion that has EVER been suggested on how to fix pinging I have done. New ect/act DONE, new o2 sensors DONE, colder plugs DONE, bigger injectrors, DONE, seafoam the engine DONE, cleaning the maf DONE, etc etc. Now this is the final resort. The water injection WILL clean the carbon, and cool the chamber to prevent detonation. SO ANYONE who knows what there talking about please chime in im am tired of all these cliche/cookie cutter answers. and if you feel tempted again to say "you need to fix the problem and not find away around it" please save you post !!!!

Frustrated!

mustangt562 · Aug 11, 2004

ohh yea

I have also lowered the timing to 8, and got a afpr. SO dont suggest that either

94TURBO5 O · Aug 11, 2004

You never mentioned trying this.

If you pull out the spout and lock your timing @ 24 degrees I am sure it will stop all together. Period.
If this does not work for you I will eat my words and never suggest it to another Stanger as long as I live.
BTW:This has worked for 5 people here that have pm'd me about pinging. Oh and they were all as frustrated as you were.

final5-0 · Aug 11, 2004

In the gt pcm the spark tables are really agressive at some points. At mid level loads I've seen the spark climb to as high as 46 degrees in datalogs where the gt's pcm spark tables are still stock.

You can draw your own conclusions but IMHO the pcm with the stock gt cal file is just prone to the ping thing cause I think that even when everything is normal with parts, sensors, and such the tune as delivered from Ford is right on the verge of pinging so there is not much room for anything to go wrong without having to deal with pinging.

I would suspect Ford did it that way for emissions or gas milage or both.

Later
Grady

RydeOn · Aug 11, 2004

VIPERn94Five-0 said:
i doubt you will actually gain any power....the deal is this...it works like water injection or and intercooler on a boosted car...they dont actually give you anypower...they just cool the charge temps to make things safer...in reality an intercooler will usually LOSE power at the same boost levels because the cooling will cause a pressure drop across the intercooler. i bet you gain 0hp from that mod, if you dont lose any....

you need to FIX the problem and not try and find away around it....

Actaully with an intercooler (not aftercooler, waterinjection,etc.) you will get more power due to a denser air charge. But your right about what you said for the most part. With water injection I think you lose a little power.

94TURBO5 O · Aug 11, 2004

law said:
Forgive my ignorance but what is a WB 02?

Wide band A/F O2 sensors

mo_dingo · Aug 11, 2004

mustangt562 said:
Every Da** suggestion that has EVER been suggested on how to fix pinging I have done. New ect/act DONE, new o2 sensors DONE, colder plugs DONE, bigger injectrors, DONE, seafoam the engine DONE, cleaning the maf DONE, etc etc. Now this is the final resort. The water injection WILL clean the carbon, and cool the chamber to prevent detonation. SO ANYONE who knows what there talking about please chime in im am tired of all these cliche/cookie cutter answers. and if you feel tempted again to say "you need to fix the problem and not find away around it" please save you post !!!! Frustrated!

Look, ass, you asked us for answers to a question that we hear about every day. Trust what you read here, or take the car to a damn mechanic & have them fix it.

Don't be mad at us. Think of it like a positive coefficient exponential function. As your anger towards us increased, our willingness to even read your posts will decrease exponentially.

With that said, you have not done EVERYTHING we have suggested. I suggested 3 things to your, but you completely ignored them.

I would ask you to re-read my post, but I fear you will not have the tranquillity to do so.

I asked you if you have.....

#1 Put the car on a dyno to check a/f ratio & get a custom chip.
#2 Purchased a Wideband Oxygen sensor & checked a/f ratio
#3 Actually cleaned the topend of the motor (i.e. remove heads and grind cc's and piston tops to bare metal)

#1 & #3 together, or #2 & #3 together will cure your pinging problem.

1/2 will tell you if you have enough fuel coming in. 3 will remove any trace of carbon left on the motor. Seafoam will not even come close to what a grinder will do.

Is this "non-cookie cutter" enough for you.

Shall I speak of the stock spark/fuel tables & how they suck ass on our cars?
Scott

VIPERn94Five-0 · Aug 12, 2004

RydeOn said:
Actaully with an intercooler (not aftercooler, waterinjection,etc.) you will get more power due to a denser air charge. But your right about what you said for the most part. With water injection I think you lose a little power.

negative, an intercooler will cause a pressure drop, meaning a lower psi, and more than likley less horsepower....intercoolers themselves add no power...its the ability to cool the air/run more boost safely that are the advanteges of an intercooler....

Anthony

Zero Signal · Aug 12, 2004

WHile we're on the subject of going to the ectreme to get rid of the pinging, I pretty much but my TwEECer for that. Expensive, but very effective, lol!

RydeOn · Aug 12, 2004

Nope. Played around with this stuff before and you are not comparing correctly. Possibly with a blower you would lose boost through a pressure drop due to the blower not being able to spin fast enough for a given pulley size. But on a turbo, as long as its in its effeciency range, you will boost what you want to boost no ifs ands or buts. And for a given boost level, your going to make more power with cooler, denser air than without. If an intercooler worked on an NA application (it doesnt due to not being able to cool under ambient temp) then you would get more power too. The only reason water injection doesnt gain any power is because the water displaces the space where the hotter air was, but it works great for getting rid of detontation.

Last5.0 · Aug 12, 2004

As far as the Snow kit fitting in the engine compartment and having to relocate the battery.....

My kit came with a bulkhead fitting (like what's on their bottle that comes with the kit) that you install into your washer fluid reservoir and use that.

VIPERn94Five-0 · Aug 12, 2004

RydeOn said:
Nope. Played around with this stuff before and you are not comparing correctly. Possibly with a blower you would lose boost through a pressure drop due to the blower not being able to spin fast enough for a given pulley size. But on a turbo, as long as its in its effeciency range, you will boost what you want to boost no ifs ands or buts. And for a given boost level, your going to make more power with cooler, denser air than without. If an intercooler worked on an NA application (it doesnt due to not being able to cool under ambient temp) then you would get more power too. The only reason water injection doesnt gain any power is because the water displaces the space where the hotter air was, but it works great for getting rid of detontation.

there is goingto be a pressure drop as the compressed air passes through the intercooler, maybe im generalizing all intercoolers and should say im talking about a good sized FMIC....

Anthony

mustangt562 · Aug 12, 2004

hey last5.0

where did you mount the pump? any pics?

Sick and tired of pinging!! Water injection?

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