Sn95 Vs Fox

FastDriver · Aug 21, 2013

Gearbanger 101 said:
MM&FF just tested the ST in their last issue and even with a nearly 2.2-60ft on stock tires, they still managed to nail a 14-flat @100mph. That'll smoke a stock Fox and is as at least as quick as many of the basic bolt on Fox's I've seen.

That's not smoking a stock 5 spd. I went 14.2@98 stock. And anyway, that ST really is at the limit of that motor's capability. 252 from a 2.0 is about all she wrote from a streetable n/a motor. Ford has admitted it directly. The fox left enough on the table for cheap mods to make big improvements. Besides, a fox is a late 70s to early 90s car when running mid-low 14s was something more than mundane for a performance car.

Dude, you just described the Fox Mustang to a T! Are we forgetting our beloved is little more than a glorified Ford Fairmont? That same strategy seemed to work out pretty well for the Mustang didn't it?

Again, 70s 80s and 90s had nothing on the performance car of today.

Those ignorant buyers checques cash as well as anyone else's. Your right though....AWD would certainly be awesome, but then the car would also be prices accordingly. How many other cars in its class can you guy for it's $24,000 base price range that handles like a go-car, are sub-14-second capable, will do 150mph+ and still knocks out over 30mpg while having 5-doors?

That's the best argument. I think it would make a good car to drive around, but I do wonder about maintenance costs and repair parts.

If I didn't absolutely NEED a truck for daily duty, I'd own one of them tomorrow!

I could own one of them, too. I've got a girl back in the states that loves focuses. Would be perfect for her.

FastDriver · Aug 21, 2013

NIKwoaC said:
Pricing for the Subaru WRX starts at under 26K. Turbo’d boxer engine PLUS full-time, symmetrical AWD>>>>>>>>> Focus ST. That’s just me, though.

I actually checked out the WRX as an option too, because I would really like to try out an AWD car, and I obviously have a thing for turbos. The gas mileage was abysmal for a light 4-cyl, though. Something like 24mpg highway.

FastDriver · Aug 21, 2013

revhead347 said:
I forgot what we were evening talking about originally now. Don't get me wrong, I still prefer rear wheel drive, but it's not the end defining character. Ford offers an AWD Fusion, but most of the reviews I read on it said that it didn't perform any better than the front wheel drive one, and we decided it wasn't worth the extra cash and hassle. Speaking of new RWD performance cars, have any of you see the new turbo Hyundai Genesis Coupe? I know it's a Hyundai, but it's a really cool car.

Kut

Hyundai is pissing me off with how impressive their stuff is becoming. I can't stand that they're building a more powerful 5.0 V8 than is going into our current mustangs.

NIKwoaC · Aug 21, 2013

revhead347 said:
I forgot what we were evening talking about originally now. Don't get me wrong, I still prefer rear wheel drive, but it's not the end defining character. Ford offers an AWD Fusion, but most of the reviews I read on it said that it didn't perform any better than the front wheel drive one, and we decided it wasn't worth the extra cash and hassle. Speaking of new RWD performance cars, have any of you see the new turbo Hyundai Genesis Coupe? I know it's a Hyundai, but it's a really cool car.

Kut

Actually, the only reason I accept AWD as a viable drivetrain style for a sports car is because it's superior traction abilities in high-power, poor surface situations. Personally, I prefer RWD for it's driving entertainment value, hands down. The Fusion's AWD is strictly a traction measure in snowy or icy conditions- that system is in no way, shape, or form a performance oriented AWD system. It is primarily a FWD drive system with a "backup" AWD, and I'm told that if you manage to overpower the front wheels on launch, the car actually bogs while it transfers power to the rears. That's, of course, night and day difference with what Subaru does with their stuff. I'm hoping that if Ford ever does a sporty AWD Focus, they make it more of a "real" AWD system, and less of a "grandma needs to drive through the snow to get to the grocery" system.

And yea, the Genesis Coupe is legit.

NIKwoaC · Aug 21, 2013

FastDriver said:
I actually checked out the WRX as an option too, because I would really like to try out an AWD car, and I obviously have a thing for turbos. The gas mileage was abysmal for a light 4-cyl, though. Something like 24mpg highway.

Haha yea, the WRX doesn't do great on gas. Just like our Foxes though, the first time you step on the gas and you feel all your internal organs press against your spine, you forget how much that smelly stuff at the pump costs. My buddy has a lightly modded 2011 and it is droooooool worthy.

FastDriver · Aug 21, 2013

I just am not going to buy a 4-cyl motor that is not economical. To me, peformance = V8. I guess if you get exotic or expensive, there are some amazing other engines out there from 6-cyl turbo motors, to V10s and V12s... but I still can't think of a 4-cyl that truly impresses me more than any reasonable V8.

Gearbanger 101 · Aug 21, 2013

NIKwoaC said:
You’re talking about the same guys who manage 12s from stock engine Foxes. These guys get paid to thrash on cars and write about it, and some of them are pretty good behind the wheel. The average owner in the average ST is not going to cut times like that. It’s a moot point though, because it’s like arguing over who is the skinniest of the fat kids- neither car in stock form is really that fast to begin with. Both are slower than any modern sports car worth owning.

Lets be fair here....nobody is coming anywhere close to 12's...or even breaking 13's on STOCK Fox bodies without pulling weight, tweaking suspension and adding drag radials....drivers of MM&FF included. Let's also be frank....most bone stock Fox body owners aren't Evan Smith and are generally lucky to run mid/high-14's out of their cars in stock trim and low-14's with basic bolt, driving them within an inch of their lives. They didn't even take the traction control off of the ST, or power shift it to run 14-flat....and they were still running stock radials to boot.

...but you're right....it's kind of a moot point. Except that people expect Mustangs to be fast....they aren't expecting a Focus to blow their doors off.

NIKwoaC said:
At least the Fox chassis was designed from the start to carry a V8 and spin the correct tires. It was also never an entry level econo-car. The Focus ST is just like the Neon SRT-4 (another car I thoroughly hate), only Ford is doing it for different reasons.

Actually, most of them got I4's and I6's. The ones that did get V8's got a whopping 12ohp to light up those meaty 185/75/14's. In case you're wondering, that's a less than half the horsepower the ST makes.

And if you don't consider the Ford Fairmont an econobox of the 70's era, I don't know what is? Need I remind you, the Fox Mustang was an econobox in more forms that it was a sports coupe as well.

NIKwoaC said:
I don’t know what that word with the Q in it is, but I totally agree with this statement… Ford makes money on it, good for them. I just don’t like it, haha.

That's actually how the word is spelled using proper English. Not that slang jargon you guys developed when you landed on this rock.

NIKwoaC said:
Pricing for the Subaru WRX starts at under 26K. Turbo’d boxer engine PLUS full-time, symmetrical AWD>>>>>>>>> Focus ST. That’s just me, though.

Good point you do get the AWD with the WRX. Even though reviewers have stated that the cars fit and finish reflects the price tag and that it got beat around the track and crushed on the skid pad by the Focus ST. It's a shame AWD isn't an option for the Focus, but considering it leaped ahead of what was considered the industry standard for years, I'd say it's not too bad for just a "wannabe". And did I mention the fuel mileage?

88LX5.Oh · Aug 21, 2013

I'm not a fan of most foreign AWD set ups. And even a lot of domestic set ups. They put the motor and trans like a FWD vehicle and have the transfer case up there. I don't like the idea of the engine, trans, and transfer case being over the front wheels. But a lot of the times the vehicles still handle good. Perfect examples are the Evo and the WRX. I just don't see how they even get remotely close to a 50/50 weight distribution with those cars because the rear diffs and half shafts aren't the most massive things ever. I wanna say the WRX has like a 60/40 weight distribution? With of course the 60 percent being the front. That's damn good for having all that crap up front.

88LX5.Oh · Aug 21, 2013

88LX5.Oh said:
I'm not a fan of most foreign AWD set ups. And even a lot of domestic set ups. They put the motor and trans like a FWD vehicle and have the transfer case up there. I don't like the idea of the engine, trans, and transfer case being over the front wheels. But a lot of the times the vehicles still handle good. Perfect examples are the Evo and the WRX. I just don't see how they even get remotely close to a 50/50 weight distribution with those cars because the rear diffs and half shafts aren't the most massive things ever. I wanna say the WRX has like a 60/40 weight distribution? With of course the 60 percent being the front. That's damn good for having all that crap up front.

I guess having it set up that way is a good thing because it eliminates the need for a front drive shaft and a front differential. And plus good luck fitting a trans and transfer case in a WRX in the conventional way. I don't think there's enough room to fit a T5 under the middle of those cars lol

FastDriver · Aug 21, 2013

Gearbanger 101 said:
Lets be fair here....nobody is coming anywhere close to 12's...or even breaking 13's on STOCK Fox bodies without pulling weight, tweaking suspension and adding drag radials....drivers of MM&FF included. Let's also be frank....most bone stock Fox body owners aren't Evan Smith and are generally lucky to run mid/high-14's out of their cars in stock trim and low-14's with basic bolt, driving them within an inch of their lives. They didn't even take the traction control off of the ST, or power shift it to run 14-flat....and they were still running stock radials to boot.

grrrr... don't make me break out the cars illustrated article, again.

That's actually how the word is spelled using proper English. Not that slang jargon you guys developed when you landed on this rock.

and I suppose you don't know what aluminum is, like to smoke fags, have a big arse, etc... Or is that all bollocks, too? Stop being a cheeky monkey, and anyway it was still spelled wrong: in Britain they cash cheques, not "checques." Cheers, wanker!

NIKwoaC · Aug 21, 2013

Gearbanger 101 said:
Lets be fair here....nobody is coming anywhere close to 12's...or even breaking 13's on STOCK Fox bodies without pulling weight, tweaking suspension and adding drag radials....drivers of MM&FF included. Let's also be frank....most bone stock Fox body owners aren't Evan Smith and are generally lucky to run mid/high-14's out of their cars in stock trim and low-14's with basic bolt, driving them within an inch of their lives. They didn't even take the traction control off of the ST, or power shift it to run 14-flat....and they were still running stock radials to boot.

...but you're right....it's kind of a moot point. Except that people expect Mustangs to be fast....they aren't expecting a Focus to blow their doors off.

Haha, I would let all this go, but you're still using very exciting phrases like "blow their doors off". The only people getting their doors blown off by the ST are the people driving base model Foci.

Gearbanger 101 said:
Actually, most of them got I4's and I6's. The ones that did get V8's got a whopping 12ohp to light up those meaty 185/75/14's. In case you're wondering, that's a less than half the horsepower the ST makes.

Meh, apples and oranges. The Corvettes of the day were making 180-something.

Gearbanger 101 said:
And if you don't consider the Ford Fairmont an econobox of the 70's era, I don't know what is? Need I remind you, the Fox Mustang was an econobox in more forms that it was a sports coupe as well.

Are you forgetting this?

There was also this:

Gearbanger 101 said:
Good point you do get the AWD with the WRX. Even though reviewers have stated that the cars fit and finish reflects the price tag and that it got beat around the track and crushed on the skid pad by the Focus ST. It's a shame AWD isn't an option for the Focus, but considering it leaped ahead of what was considered the industry standard for years, I'd say it's not too bad for just a "wannabe". And did I mention the fuel mileage?

My buddy talks about the fit and finish of his WRX, but I guess I don't see it...? I also have no qualms driving an almost 30 year old car without AC and a tear in the driver's seat, so I'm a poor judge for that I guess.

NIKwoaC · Aug 21, 2013

FastDriver said:
I just am not going to buy a 4-cyl motor that is not economical. To me, peformance = V8. I guess if you get exotic or expensive, there are some amazing other engines out there from 6-cyl turbo motors, to V10s and V12s... but I still can't think of a 4-cyl that truly impresses me more than any reasonable V8.

It is kind of funny, my buddy's WRX makes like 18ish pounds of boost, and he says similarly-modded WRXs make around 275 at the tire. SOOO much huffing and puffing for not a lot of power, haha. But, the car doesn't weigh any much more than a Fox, has AWD, and makes all sorts of cool noises with pressurized gasses.

88LX5.Oh · Aug 21, 2013

NIKwoaC said:
It is kind of funny, my buddy's WRX makes like 18ish pounds of boost, and he says similarly-modded WRXs make around 275 at the tire. SOOO much huffing and puffing for not a lot of power, haha. But, the car doesn't weigh any much more than a Fox, has AWD, and makes all sorts of cool noises with pressurized gasses.

18 PSI for only 275? You gotta be kidding me.
A 302 at 18 psi would make some ridiculous power. Once, only once though.

Gearbanger 101 · Aug 21, 2013

FastDriver said:
and I suppose you don't know what aluminum is, like to smoke fags, have a big arse, etc... Or is that all bollocks, too? Stop being a cheeky monkey, and anyway it was still spelled wrong: in Britain they cash cheques, not "checques." Cheers, wanker!

You should probably stay in Germany. The Euro-trash is rubbing off on you.

NIKwoaC said:
Are you forgetting this?

There was also this:

Nah, I didn't forget them. They just happen to be tier boxes. Call them the "sub-compact" of their day if you will.

NIKwoaC · Aug 21, 2013

88LX5.Oh said:
18 PSI for only 275? You gotta be kidding me.
A 302 at 18 psi would make some ridiculous power. Once, only once though.

All my import buddies have a hard time wrapping their brain around why we 5.0 guys don't just trow turbos at our junk and make 700 HP. They just don't get it... There's nothing to "split" in their inline-4s, hahaha.

NIKwoaC · Aug 21, 2013

Gearbanger 101 said:
You should probably stay in Germany. The Euro-trash is rubbing off on you.

Nah, I didn't forget them. They just happen to be ****tier **** boxes. Call them the "sub-compact" of their day if you will.

This guy has embraced the tiness of his box, LOL!

NIKwoaC · Aug 21, 2013

Gearbanger 101 said:
MM&FF just tested the ST in their last issue...

By the way, I'm not going to lie- I bought that issue, got about 5 beers in, and wrote them a scathing email, berating them for running that article, haha. Ahhh, I've got too much time on my hands.

I'm just afraid there will be another incident like the Probe/Mustang debacle of the 80s. This Focus ST garbage is a slippery slope. We, as consumers and car enthusiasts, need to make sure Ford doesn't get too high and mighty on their FWD campaign.

5.0 Ford Guy · Aug 21, 2013

Wow, I have seen threads go off topic. Off on a tangent. And off the deep end. This one did all three!

I have owned multiple Fox Mustangs. They are fun, light, and can be made to feel like a go-cart with a V8 strapped in them. They are great cars. Now, being 42 years old and getting fatter as I type I have to say I wouldn't trade my 94 for a Fox. I love it. It feels as if it is put together a lot better. It feels more solid I guess. It is a bit slower than the Fox. But just as much fun. I love it just as much in some ways, and more in others than my old Fox Stangs.

As far as the aftermarket though parts are slim pickin' for the 94-95. That is the only thing I don't like about the car. You don't have the choices of aftermarket suppliers fighting to make a better part. So you have to settle for an inferior part. But I think it makes people more creative not having a huge supply of bolt-ons available.

Gearbanger 101 · Aug 22, 2013

NIKwoaC said:
This guy has embraced the ****tiness of his ****box, LOL!

It's only cool if it's packing a 460!

NIKwoaC said:
I'm just afraid there will be another incident like the Probe/Mustang debacle of the 80s. This Focus ST garbage is a slippery slope. We, as consumers and car enthusiasts, need to make sure Ford doesn't get too high and mighty on their FWD campaign.

Hey man....gotta keep up with the Jones. If Ford left that hole in their line up, some other manufacturer would fill it. Did you have an equal amout of distain for the SVT Focus, or the SVT Contour when they were around? How about the Taurus SHO old and new? Oh....what about the Lightning? After all...it too was trying to be something it wasn't? Trucks are meant for towing and hauling drywall after all?

FastDriver · Aug 22, 2013

NIKwoaC said:
This guy has embraced the ****tiness of his ****box, LOL!

That is hilarious!

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