So who needs TCP?

[dolfan87]

We did not lower the upper arm. While doing the initial mock up, and cycling the suspension, we found no reason to do it. It is (lowering the arm) intended to introduce more negative camber throughout the cycle, but with the upper arm shortened, we had an almost ideal camber curve leaving the arm where it was.

Ball joint angles were acceptable for us both dropped out and bottomed out. Everything looks good for now, just have to get the thing tested out.

87

 

[Opentracker]

On a car with the spring on the lower arm like the coil over set up, the screw in ball joints would be my choice for the upper and lower. The shorter upper arm is the way to go. Very nice work!!

John

 

[bnickel]

i'll give ya a case of beer and some pocket lint for one of em

i don't really know what you should price them at, but i do know that the 2200 heads of cabbage TCP was charging was a little insane. i'd say you probably have a 4 or 500 bucks or so in parts and materials plus labor and shop equipment and shop supplies for another say 200 or so a set (equipment and upkeep costs money) and say another couple hundred for business expenses (advertising, legal, etc.) and then you'll need to make a decent profit on each set up say 400 bucks and i come up with somewhere in the range of 12-1400 bucks, was i close on that?

 

[bnickel]

if you were to go with the double adjustable AFCO shocks and springs you could bring it down even further, say 1000-1100 bucks, which would be better for a poor boy like me although i'm kind with eric on the upper arms i'd like to see a set that is compatible with the stock suspension, if i could get a nice set of upper and lower arms for around 400 or 500 bucks or less i'd rather go that route since since replacement parts would be easier to source for me, cheaper too

 

[DarkBuddha]

I've been following this thread with interest, and the first thing I want to say is that you've done some wicked work. I'm thoroughly impressed and admire your effort and execution. :worship:

Next, while the idea of swapping in a custom suspension like this generally doesn't appeal to my "fix it on a Sunday, anywhere, with parts from Schucks Boys Discount Napa Zone" philosophy, I've always been interested in reasonably priced trick/improved suspension options. So, that said, for it to be a truly viable option for me, it would have to be priced somewhere around half what TCP ever charged... if you can do it for$1100 or so, I guess I'd be very tempted the next time I was gonna do a suspension rebuild.

Now I know this is probably damned unreasonable, but beyond that, it becomes seriously tempting to fab it myself, or see what can be done to improve the original components (as I am currently doing). Essentially, the thing that I'm most focused on is that the street performance improvement that it provides is unachievable for the same or less money elsewhere or by doing mods myself. What this basically means is that I'm probably not the guy you're marketing towards. You're probably more likely to have folks that are looking for significant upgrade components for severe duty requirements (like racing) or for the guys looking for the "show" of tubular this and cross-drilled that. Both of which are probably willing (and able) to spend a bit more cash than I would be.

My point is, whatever price you set, keep in mind who your real market is and price it accordingly. I personally don't think you're ever gonna get (and convert) the real budget do-it-yourselfers to spend over $1000, and you can probably coax a bit more ($1500 or so) out of the guys who want this kind of thing. You've got a great idea and a product, so just don't sell yourself short.

Hope this helps... and I'll continue to follow keenly... Good luck!

 

[bnickel]

very good points DB, i always wished that TCP had made a cheaper line of products and i mentioned it to psydwaze (lino) several times and he said he would propose it the powers at be, if they had listened maybe they would have stayed in business or maybe not. but i honestly think that there needs to a viable alternative to the high priced stuff. possibly something that uses poly or nylon bushings instead of rod ends, etc. either that or somone who is not as greedy as TCP seemed to be.

 

[Opentracker]

The reason I make my own parts is to save money. I like the coil over set up but I will never use one. The challenge to me is to make the car Ford gave us go fast, like folks have done for the past 40 years. The parts I have developed save us a ton of money. I run with the Musang Plus cars and the TCP car at the tracks we run at and on a good day we can run with the best of 'em. I would rather go a bit slower and not have 4K in the suspenson. If your not runing for points for money why spend the money. We do it for fun and to hang out with the folks at the track. I don't see the need for tubular arms on a street/track car. If your not going to lower the mounting point of the upper arm more than 1", use a stock upper arm. We ran our first three years of open track events with a stock upper arm and the 1" drop. Lot's of money doesn't make a fast car. A driving school makes a great christmas present and will improve your lap times more than any part you buy. From what I have found, the adj. strut rods and roller spring perches make a much bigger change to the way the car drives than new upper and lower arms.

John

 

[taylor4g63]

If it was priced right at or under $1200, i'd be all over it.

 

[dolfan87]

The reason I make my own parts is to save money. I like the coil over set up but I will never use one. The challenge to me is to make the car Ford gave us go fast, like folks have done for the past 40 years. The parts I have developed save us a ton of money. I run with the Musang Plus cars and the TCP car at the tracks we run at and on a good day we can run with the best of 'em. I would rather go a bit slower and not have 4K in the suspenson. If your not runing for points for money why spend the money. We do it for fun and to hang out with the folks at the track. I don't see the need for tubular arms on a street/track car. If your not going to lower the mounting point of the upper arm more than 1", use a stock upper arm. We ran our first three years of open track events with a stock upper arm and the 1" drop. Lot's of money doesn't make a fast car. A driving school makes a great christmas present and will improve your lap times more than any part you buy. From what I have found, the adj. strut rods and roller spring perches make a much bigger change to the way the car drives than new upper and lower arms.

John

Very good points. I don't think this system is needed on a street car. If you are one of those guys who likes to take his car to the track, and make it run as fast as possible, then this kit is for you.

I have said it before, but I plan on running the Silver State Classic, and if I am going to spend the money to get out there and haul a$$, then I want the most stable suspension I can get.

Of course there will always be people who just want the cool factor, and they will buy this stuff for that alone. I mean seriously, how many of us have purchased over the top parts just because of the "wow" it brings.

Why do we build 400hp engines when the speed limit is 75 on the interstate? Why do we swap in 6 speeds when a 5 speed will more than accomodate us?

Why 17" rims, when the 15" work fine? Why 13" brakes, when the 11.75" stock rotors stop just great? Full Autometer instumentation, when there were nothing wrong with the stock guages?

It's the hobby we are in, and I have to admit, I am one of those guys who buys and installs the top of the line stuff. I couldn't even tell you why I do it.

I think I just want to know it's there if I ever need it. Plus it all just looks so darned cool doesn't it?

87

 

[gp001]

Why do we swap in 6 speeds when a 5 speed will more than accomodate us?

87

Because we are silly

 

[one2gamble]

I just want my car to handle well

 

[skywalker]

Very good points. I don't think this system is needed on a street car. If you are one of those guys who likes to take his car to the track, and make it run as fast as possible, then this kit is for you.

I have said it before, but I plan on running the Silver State Classic, and if I am going to spend the money to get out there and haul a$$, then I want the most stable suspension I can get.

Of course there will always be people who just want the cool factor, and they will buy this stuff for that alone. I mean seriously, how many of us have purchased over the top parts just because of the "wow" it brings.

Why do we build 400hp engines when the speed limit is 75 on the interstate? Why do we swap in 6 speeds when a 5 speed will more than accomodate us?

Why 17" rims, when the 15" work fine? Why 13" brakes, when the 11.75" stock rotors stop just great? Full Autometer instumentation, when there were nothing wrong with the stock guages?

It's the hobby we are in, and I have to admit, I am one of those guys who buys and installs the top of the line stuff. I couldn't even tell you why I do it.

I think I just want to know it's there if I ever need it. Plus it all just looks so darned cool doesn't it?

87

Damn skippy!

 

[bnickel]

me personally i much prefer the sleeper theme, look stock haul serious ass. but some things like suspension parts can be over the top as long as they are well camaflouged, paint it all black so it doesn't stand out and no one will be the wiser as long as they don't crawl under the car and even then they may not notice even better paint some things different colors to draw attention away from other things. for instance my 1" swaybar is black but my stock tie-rods are cast iron gray, tubular control arms are usually far enough out of the way that atention is easily diverted from them. same thing in the engine compartment, i have hedman shorties that are covered up on passenger side with a hot air tube to the air cleaner and on the driver side by ac compressor, ps pump and ac lines which are also covering up my carter street/strip fuel pump. currnetly the car has an edelbrock intake but that will soon be swapped out for an original "buddy bar" ford power parts intake, it also has a 625 road demon which is mostly hidden the factory air cleaner, i want to hide it even more with a driver side fuel inlet and a crossover tube on the passenger side, eventually it will have a holley commader 950 TBI unit, without the TFI distibutor version. i'm also going with the factory style gt wheels in 15" with bfg rubber. if i use the autometer guages in my dash they'll be the sport comps, probably with the autometer insignias painted over. that's also one of the reasons i would like to see upper arms that use the factory stryle suspension instead of the coil overs, so i can hide them better. have you guessed i don't really go for the wow factor, except maybe when i start pointing out all the stuff that has been disguised.

 

[dolfan87]

me personally i much prefer the sleeper theme, look stock haul serious ass. but some things like suspension parts can be over the top as long as they are well camaflouged, paint it all black so it doesn't stand out and no one will be the wiser as long as they don't crawl under the car and even then they may not notice even better paint some things different colors to draw attention away from other things. for instance my 1" swaybar is black but my stock tie-rods are cast iron gray, tubular control arms are usually far enough out of the way that atention is easily diverted from them. same thing in the engine compartment, i have hedman shorties that are covered up on passenger side with a hot air tube to the air cleaner and on the driver side by ac compressor, ps pump and ac lines which are also covering up my carter street/strip fuel pump. currnetly the car has an edelbrock intake but that will soon be swapped out for an original "buddy bar" ford power parts intake, it also has a 625 road demon which is mostly hidden the factory air cleaner, i want to hide it even more with a driver side fuel inlet and a crossover tube on the passenger side, eventually it will have a holley commader 950 TBI unit, without the TFI distibutor version. i'm also going with the factory style gt wheels in 15" with bfg rubber. if i use the autometer guages in my dash they'll be the sport comps, probably with the autometer insignias painted over. that's also one of the reasons i would like to see upper arms that use the factory stryle suspension instead of the coil overs, so i can hide them better. have you guessed i don't really go for the wow factor, except maybe when i start pointing out all the stuff that has been disguised.

Your still doing things, it's just that YOUR thing is hiding it.

We will have the non-coilover uppers and lowers available.

87

 

[bnickel]

Your still doing things, it's just that YOUR thing is hiding it.

exactly, that way they won't know until it's too late, if i even fill them in afterwards

let me know when you'll have them available and how much, how close was i on the price anyway?

 

[Ronstang]

Your stuff looks great and I wish you success but please remember that there is a lawyer around every corner waiting to pounce and ruin your life to line his pockets so make sure you have good insurance on your business and make sure it is a limilted liability endeavor of some type.

 

[skywalker]

Your stuff looks great and I wish you success but please remember that there is a lawyer around every corner waiting to pounce and ruin your life to line his pockets so make sure you have good insurance on your business and make sure it is a limilted liability endeavor of some type.

Big bold letters: "For race use only, user assumes all liability."

Put them everywhere. Put them on a sticker that is attached to the control arms.

 

[Ronstang]

Sorry, disclaimers don't mean anything.....ask a lawyer. COVER YOUR BUTT!!!!!!

 

[bnickel]

Sorry, disclaimers don't mean anything.....ask a lawyer. COVER YOUR BUTT

exactly, i once heard of a classic car dealer getting sued for selling some guy a hopped up GTO who then managed to total the car and was severly injured, the lawyer said the dealer never should sold his client a car that had so much power and that the dealer was negligent because he didn't "fully exaplain" to the buyer that this was not your average old car. what a load of crap, the dealer was found innocent and the case was basically thrown out, but it did actually make it to trial, so it just goes to show people will sue over anything, even their own stupidity, however if the buyer had been under 18 it would likely have been a whole different story. that was one of the reasons TCP's stuff was so high, that and they thought they had to make as much money as their lawyers did. you might also want to make sure that your design does not infringe on any of TCP's patents or copyrights since they have actually been bought out now, at least the designs anyway.

 

[gp001]

Ever wonder why TCP was a Limited Liability Company (LLC)?