bentley429isBAC
10 Year Member
Don't waste any actual money on stock shortblock. Just go aftermarket and be done with it. I went through what you are doing a bunch with a turbo setup. Finally went aftermarket never looked back. Good luck
So You Want A Supercharger?
- Thread starter JD1964
- Start date
This is exactly my thinking. It the stock block craps the bricks next order is an aftermarket block. Then I can turn up the wick a bit.
That all depends.... what power level are we talking here? Race,street.....?
Alot of the stock blocks weakness comes from excess cylinder pressures, incorrect afr, or timing.. the block "rattling" is what causes them to fail.
As an example we have a 450hp 327 that we regularly throw spray at. Anywhere from 75 to 250 shot pills. Depending on the race type/venue. According to the time slips the car makes in the 700 range on the big pills. With 114 race fuel 28* timing and an afr of 11.5..
A proper tune goes a long way for block longevity.
My turd has stock internals hyper pistons with a good balance, gt40 iron heads ported with large valves ect ect.... then I added a custom m90 SC setup makes 9psi at 2500 rpm up. 93 octane 24* timing.. 11.4 afr.
It all comes down to the setup and tune. But don't get me wrong for a setup designed to make more than 600hp I would not use a stock 302 block.
I would go 351.
krazedstang
15 Year Member
Which SFI Pioneer balancer did you get? I'm trying to figure out which one I should get instead of throwing an old stocker on there when I do my engine swap.
I guess if you've got a bottomless wallet and are looking to me in enormous power levels, an aftermarket block is a no brainer, but let's be realistic here. The stock block has held up to power levels capable of propelling a full weight fox body into the 10's. That's faster than 99% of Fox owners will ever go.....so dropping $2,000 on an aftermarket block would be an even bigger waste of time and money.
Seriously....unless you're shooting for 1,000hp, why wouldn't you just opt for a 351W as your base? They can be had for a song and have shown to handle upwards of 1,000hp when stuffed with forged internals. Not to mention they can be put together for faaaar less than any of the aftermarket offerings? Lets also consider they offer more room for displacement than any of the 302 based aftermarket offerings.
Seriously....unless you're shooting for 1,000hp, why wouldn't you just opt for a 351W as your base? They can be had for a song and have shown to handle upwards of 1,000hp when stuffed with forged internals. Not to mention they can be put together for faaaar less than any of the aftermarket offerings? Lets also consider they offer more room for displacement than any of the 302 based aftermarket offerings.
I'll see if I can find the info when I get off work. I paid around 150$ if memory serves.
Power bond makes an awesome SFI balancer as well . I have the zero balance version . I had the 50 oz on the stock block
Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate
mikestang63
SN Certified Technician
The stock block can take a ton of abuse if the rpm's are kept down. Treat it like a Viper V-10 that has a red line starting at 5,500 rpm. 50 oz. imbalance is over 3 lbs of weight hanging off of the front and back of the crank. Spin it over 6K and you are asking for trouble...especially at higher HP levels.
Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions and contributions to this thread.
My path for this car is limited by the amount of money I can reasonably spend at this time in my life. So, it's going to have to be this stock 302 short block for now. It's a good piece in good shape. My setup is iron GT40's, stock cam, 10psi max on a colder day. If tuned perfectly, how much power could I really put down? Not enough to break the stock 302 right? 6k is my rpm limit.
Zero balancing is in the budget. Not sure if that means I "must" buy a new aftermarket balancer or not.
As I move forward, I'll be sure to post details and pics.
My path for this car is limited by the amount of money I can reasonably spend at this time in my life. So, it's going to have to be this stock 302 short block for now. It's a good piece in good shape. My setup is iron GT40's, stock cam, 10psi max on a colder day. If tuned perfectly, how much power could I really put down? Not enough to break the stock 302 right? 6k is my rpm limit.
Zero balancing is in the budget. Not sure if that means I "must" buy a new aftermarket balancer or not.
As I move forward, I'll be sure to post details and pics.
I really think you are waisting money on the balance job. You aren't changing anything in the rotating assembly, why rebalance? Yes, zero is best, but I don't see the benefit vs cost. I would invest in a good balancer. I also run a pioneer piece, although I am 28oz.
Joe
Joe
If you neutral balance the crank you have to neutral balance the harmonic balancer. They have to be balanced the same. I wouldn't invest the money in the extra machine work/time etc.
A zero balance on a stock rotator is not really possible, just not enough mass in the counterweights (this is why Ford did a 50oz balance crank, much less material than even a 28oz crank and therefore cheaper). A 28oz crank is more feasible but would take a bunch of mallory and therefore be ridiculously expensive and not worth it in a stock block that cap walks on a sneeze (which is the actual mechanism that usually causes the block to split).
Oh and @krazedstang i couldn't find the part number in my parts list. But the one Mike listed sounds like the same
3rd gear is usually the one that goes south when they're beat on. When they get some miles on them, the synchros will wear, giving you that "grind" between shifts we all love. What they can reliably handle usually depends on driving style. I've seen guys break T5 in stock cars, and other guys keep them together for years in 400 hp cars.
mikestang63
SN Certified Technician
it all depends on how you drive it John. Just like stock 28 spline axles- I've seen guys no break them with 400hp and other guys snap them in half with far less. If you are the type that speedshifts or race your car all the time, the shock will definitely be a factor to premature wear/breakage.
bentley429isBAC
10 Year Member
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