So You Want A Supercharger?

bentley429isBAC · Aug 31, 2016

Don't waste any actual money on stock shortblock. Just go aftermarket and be done with it. I went through what you are doing a bunch with a turbo setup. Finally went aftermarket never looked back. Good luck

elarm1 · Aug 31, 2016

bentley429isBAC said:
Don't waste any actual money on stock shortblock. Just go aftermarket and be done with it. I went through what you are doing a bunch with a turbo setup. Finally went aftermarket never looked back. Good luck

This is exactly my thinking. It the stock block craps the bricks next order is an aftermarket block. Then I can turn up the wick a bit.

elarm1 · Sep 1, 2016

bentley429isBAC said:
Don't waste any actual money on stock shortblock. Just go aftermarket and be done with it. I went through what you are doing a bunch with a turbo setup. Finally went aftermarket never looked back. Good luck

Which block are you using?

a91what · Sep 1, 2016

bentley429isBAC said:
Don't waste any actual money on stock shortblock. Just go aftermarket and be done with it. I went through what you are doing a bunch with a turbo setup. Finally went aftermarket never looked back. Good luck

That all depends.... what power level are we talking here? Race,street.....?

Alot of the stock blocks weakness comes from excess cylinder pressures, incorrect afr, or timing.. the block "rattling" is what causes them to fail.
As an example we have a 450hp 327 that we regularly throw spray at. Anywhere from 75 to 250 shot pills. Depending on the race type/venue. According to the time slips the car makes in the 700 range on the big pills. With 114 race fuel 28* timing and an afr of 11.5..
A proper tune goes a long way for block longevity.

My turd has stock internals hyper pistons with a good balance, gt40 iron heads ported with large valves ect ect.... then I added a custom m90 SC setup makes 9psi at 2500 rpm up. 93 octane 24* timing.. 11.4 afr.

It all comes down to the setup and tune. But don't get me wrong for a setup designed to make more than 600hp I would not use a stock 302 block.
I would go 351.

krazedstang · Sep 1, 2016

A5literMan said:
Personally I wouldn't spend anymore money on a stock shortblock than I had to. While its apart you could grab a new balancer(I installed an sfi Pioneer unit from summit). I wouldn't bother messing around much with the rotating assembly other than the rings,bearings, etc etc.

Also a good set of studs or bolts won't allow head lift on a low to moderate boosted motor. The deck being uneven would allow HG failure. If going to cometics you'll need to deck the block anyway. Hopefully this will cure your issue. Just make sure your tune is safe. You're removing the HG as the "fuse" in the equation.

Which SFI Pioneer balancer did you get? I'm trying to figure out which one I should get instead of throwing an old stocker on there when I do my engine swap.

Gearbanger 101 · Sep 1, 2016

I guess if you've got a bottomless wallet and are looking to me in enormous power levels, an aftermarket block is a no brainer, but let's be realistic here. The stock block has held up to power levels capable of propelling a full weight fox body into the 10's. That's faster than 99% of Fox owners will ever go.....so dropping $2,000 on an aftermarket block would be an even bigger waste of time and money.

Seriously....unless you're shooting for 1,000hp, why wouldn't you just opt for a 351W as your base? They can be had for a song and have shown to handle upwards of 1,000hp when stuffed with forged internals. Not to mention they can be put together for faaaar less than any of the aftermarket offerings? Lets also consider they offer more room for displacement than any of the 302 based aftermarket offerings.

A5literMan · Sep 1, 2016

krazedstang said:
Which SFI Pioneer balancer did you get? I'm trying to figure out which one I should get instead of throwing an old stocker on there when I do my engine swap.

I'll see if I can find the info when I get off work. I paid around 150$ if memory serves.

TOOLOW91 · Sep 1, 2016

krazedstang said:
Which SFI Pioneer balancer did you get? I'm trying to figure out which one I should get instead of throwing an old stocker on there when I do my engine swap.

Power bond makes an awesome SFI balancer as well . I have the zero balance version . I had the 50 oz on the stock block

Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate

mikestang63 · Sep 1, 2016

FWIW I am using a Pioneer 872030- got it for around $160

Bullitt347 · Sep 1, 2016

The stock block can take a ton of abuse if the rpm's are kept down. Treat it like a Viper V-10 that has a red line starting at 5,500 rpm. 50 oz. imbalance is over 3 lbs of weight hanging off of the front and back of the crank. Spin it over 6K and you are asking for trouble...especially at higher HP levels.

JD1964 · Sep 1, 2016

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions and contributions to this thread.

My path for this car is limited by the amount of money I can reasonably spend at this time in my life. So, it's going to have to be this stock 302 short block for now. It's a good piece in good shape. My setup is iron GT40's, stock cam, 10psi max on a colder day. If tuned perfectly, how much power could I really put down? Not enough to break the stock 302 right? 6k is my rpm limit.

Zero balancing is in the budget. Not sure if that means I "must" buy a new aftermarket balancer or not.

As I move forward, I'll be sure to post details and pics.

Gearbanger 101 · Sep 1, 2016

Probably good for at least 380whp with that set up, at those boost levels. +/- 10hp.

RangerJoe · Sep 1, 2016

I really think you are waisting money on the balance job. You aren't changing anything in the rotating assembly, why rebalance? Yes, zero is best, but I don't see the benefit vs cost. I would invest in a good balancer. I also run a pioneer piece, although I am 28oz.

Joe

A5literMan · Sep 1, 2016

If you neutral balance the crank you have to neutral balance the harmonic balancer. They have to be balanced the same. I wouldn't invest the money in the extra machine work/time etc.

Chuckman · Sep 1, 2016

A zero balance on a stock rotator is not really possible, just not enough mass in the counterweights (this is why Ford did a 50oz balance crank, much less material than even a 28oz crank and therefore cheaper). A 28oz crank is more feasible but would take a bunch of mallory and therefore be ridiculously expensive and not worth it in a stock block that cap walks on a sneeze (which is the actual mechanism that usually causes the block to split).

A5literMan · Sep 1, 2016

Oh and @krazedstang i couldn't find the part number in my parts list. But the one Mike listed sounds like the same

JD1964 · Sep 2, 2016

What's the weak link in a stock T5 trans? How much power can the stock T5 reliably handle provided it's not abused like poor shifting technique and the like?

Gearbanger 101 · Sep 2, 2016

John Dirks Jr said:
What's the weak link in a stock T5 trans? How much power can the stock T5 reliably handle provided it's not abused like poor shifting technique and the like?

3rd gear is usually the one that goes south when they're beat on. When they get some miles on them, the synchros will wear, giving you that "grind" between shifts we all love. What they can reliably handle usually depends on driving style. I've seen guys break T5 in stock cars, and other guys keep them together for years in 400 hp cars.

mikestang63 · Sep 2, 2016

it all depends on how you drive it John. Just like stock 28 spline axles- I've seen guys no break them with 400hp and other guys snap them in half with far less. If you are the type that speedshifts or race your car all the time, the shock will definitely be a factor to premature wear/breakage.

bentley429isBAC · Sep 3, 2016

elarm1 said:
Which block are you using?

Dart sportsman

So You Want A Supercharger?

bentley429isBAC

elarm1

elarm1

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog

krazedstang

Gearbanger 101

Straight Outta Locash

A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...

TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?

mikestang63

Bullitt347

I have been doing it wrong this whole time

JD1964

there is enough sticking out to grab on to

Gearbanger 101

Straight Outta Locash

RangerJoe

I leave the horn on while driving

A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...

Chuckman

GTFO you fat, heavy bastard

A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...

JD1964

there is enough sticking out to grab on to

Gearbanger 101

Straight Outta Locash

mikestang63

bentley429isBAC

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