Spindles?

uhoh5.0 · Jun 12, 2010

I am going to start on a disc brake conversion for my 66' 6 cylinder car, and I want to upgrade to V8 spindles. My question is on the early cars (pre 67) what other vehicles had the same spindles? Can I use V8 Falcon or Fairlane spindles? Are they the same as the mustang spindles of 65 to 66? Seems like the prices on mustang spindles are pretty high, whereas falcon and fairlane spindles are much more reasonable. I want to stay away from the Granada spindles because I want to run 14" wheels.

chockostang · Jun 12, 2010

uhoh5.0 said:
I am going to start on a disc brake conversion for my 66' 6 cylinder car, and I want to upgrade to V8 spindles. My question is on the early cars (pre 67) what other vehicles had the same spindles? Can I use V8 Falcon or Fairlane spindles? Are they the same as the mustang spindles of 65 to 66? Seems like the prices on mustang spindles are pretty high, whereas falcon and fairlane spindles are much more reasonable. I want to stay away from the Granada spindles because I want to run 14" wheels.

Wise choice on the Granada!

Yes, the 64 65 Falcon V8 Spindles are the same as 64 65 66 Mustang. As a matter of fact, the spindles will be C5DA--The D is Falcon. Some might be C4ZA, but few.

Now the Fairlane??, Yes it can be used to place 4 Piston K/H Disc brakes on your Mustang, but the problem is in the steering arm length (1/2" Longer), and in the tie rod taper. Both being incorrect.

Kinda gets into the Granada thing about putting non fitting parts on, making them fit by doing Etc, Etc, Etc.

To do it right, put C5DA Spindle on be correct, not "Rig it up", to many out there now having problems with the homemade brakes.

Dan @ Chockostang

uhoh5.0 · Jun 12, 2010

That's good info, so basically if I go by casting numbers, for my 66' as long as I get either a C5DA or C4ZA that will be the correct V8 spindle for my conversion?

uhoh5.0 · Jun 12, 2010

I wonder what these are? THis is the casting number from a set I was looking at???

C3DA3108J.

uhoh5.0 · Jun 12, 2010

Does this look correct?

chockostang · Jun 13, 2010

uhoh5.0 said:
I wonder what these are? THis is the casting number from a set I was looking at???

C3DA3108J.

That Drivers sides spindle C3DA 3108 is a 6 cylinder spindle. View the nut on the spindle, will be same size as trhe nut on your Mustang now.

The C5DA are larger, taking the A 2, and A 6 Bearings.

Dan @ Chockostang

uhoh5.0 · Jun 13, 2010

Well, that makes sense. I need to look at the diameter at the end of the shaft. Here is another pic, definately looks like this spindle has a larger nut on the end, so must be a v8 spindle. No casting number though. DO you have any suggestions on the best places to find V8 spindles? I don't think anyone recasts them?

uhoh5.0 · Jun 13, 2010

The one in the picture above is C5DA-3107B, so it is a V8 spindle.
I know you can beadblast the majority of the spindle to clean it up before painting, but what about the actual polished area that the bearing goes on? Steel wool?

chockostang · Jun 14, 2010

uhoh5.0 said:
Well, that makes sense. I need to look at the diameter at the end of the shaft. Here is another pic, definately looks like this spindle has a larger nut on the end, so must be a v8 spindle. No casting number though. DO you have any suggestions on the best places to find V8 spindles? I don't think anyone recasts them?

That is a C5DA Spindle. Polish with steel wool, a wire bush, whatever, check for and imperfections on bearing surfaces, if any use emory cloth, polish out till bearing slides on freely.

We have a few of these available.

Dan @ Chockostang

uhoh5.0 · Jun 14, 2010

I bought that C5DA spindle pictured above off ebay yesterday. I think I ended up paying $36 bucks plus shipping. It ended up being less than $50 bucks and it looks to be in pretty good shape. I need a driver's side spindle to match now. If you happen to have one, let me know what you would take for it. You can PM me if you would like.
THanks,
Sean

other_shoe · Jun 14, 2010

Slight threadjack alert

What are the issues with the Granada spindles other than the hub not fitting a 14 inch wheel?

2+2GT · Jun 14, 2010

other_shoe said:
What are the issues with the Granada spindles other than the hub not fitting a 14 inch wheel?

The hubs on Granada rotors are huge, and stock 60's Ford 14" wheels won't fit on them. So you either need to have the hubs machined, or buy a set of wheels.

Plus there are other considerations, such as outer tie rod ends. They have big pins, bigger than 70-73 Mustangs, so you have to get Granada outer tie rod ends. On 64-66 PS cars, the LH tie rod ends need to be offset, and a special outer "Granada" end is available, but it's not exactly $9.95 at Pep Boys. Plus the steering arm geometry is wrong for a 64-66, not a fatal problem, but not as good as stock, either.

Suddenly that cheap Granada conversion isn't so cheap. Figure you can get stock 64-73 disc conversions with entirely new parts for under $600, and the Granada conversion starts to look kinda dumb.

other_shoe · Jun 14, 2010

Thanks for the reply, 2+2 Gt.

OK, to confirm: Is it correct to say that other than the problems with wheel fitment, most of the problems involve the 64-66 cars?

As I read your response, the chief problem for a 67 is that you have to use Granada tie rod ends and you must either run non-stock wheels or have the snout of the hub turned down. Is that correct?

The reason I'm asking is that I already have the Granada conversion (and have since before there was anything like this forum), and I'm curious about the consequences.

2+2GT · Jun 14, 2010

other_shoe said:
Thanks for the reply, 2+2 Gt.

OK, to confirm: Is it correct to say that other than the problems with wheel fitment, most of the problems involve the 64-66 cars?

As I read your response, the chief problem for a 67 is that you have to use Granada tie rod ends and you must either run non-stock wheels or have the snout of the hub turned down. Is that correct?

The reason I'm asking is that I already have the Granada conversion (and have since before there was anything like this forum), and I'm curious about the consequences.

The Granada is much closer to right on the 67-73. You are already past the wheel problem, obviously. Granada outer tie rod ends will work perfectly on a 67-73 Mustang.

degins · Jun 14, 2010

2+2GT said:
The hubs on Granada rotors are huge, and stock 60's Ford 14" wheels won't fit on them. So you either need to have the hubs machined, or buy a set of wheels.

Plus there are other considerations, such as outer tie rod ends. They have big pins, bigger than 70-73 Mustangs, so you have to get Granada outer tie rod ends. On 64-66 PS cars, the LH tie rod ends need to be offset, and a special outer "Granada" end is available, but it's not exactly $9.95 at Pep Boys. Plus the steering arm geometry is wrong for a 64-66, not a fatal problem, but not as good as stock, either.

Suddenly that cheap Granada conversion isn't so cheap. Figure you can get stock 64-73 disc conversions with entirely new parts for under $600, and the Granada conversion starts to look kinda dumb.

The situation with manual steer pre 1966 6 cylinder Falcons and 6 cylinder 65-66 Mustang is not that simple. You can not simply slap 65-66 V8 spindles on (even if you can find them) and then upgrade the brakes. The steering geometry of the 6 cylinder linkage is not correct for V8 spindles. The steering gear, including center link, pitman arm, idler arm and bracket, inner and outer tie rod arms, and tie rod adjuster sleeves will need to be upgraded to 65-66 V8 type (65 Falcon type with 63-65 Falcon). This will cost about $300.

The point about wheel fit does not make sense either. Upgrading a 6 cylinder to Ford type 5 lug disc brakes requires substituting in fitting aftermarket wheels regardless of if the brakes are stock 65-66 or Granada type. So the large hubs on the Granada rotor is not an issue. It is also a well know fact that Granada spindles are available with 65-66 V8 correct steering geometry. In fact, a complete kit, with all new parts, is available for $525 ($595 for 4 lug version), including correct V8 spindles and outer tie rods. The $600 stock conversion you mention above does not include the cost of spindles.

The Granada kit is by far the most economical choice for a Ford type disc brake conversion on a 65-73 Mustang that is missing its spindles, or a 65-66 6 cylinder Mustang.

uhoh5.0 · Jun 14, 2010

For me, I plan on doing a complete V8 conversion to my 66. In terms of the steering/brake setup that would include larger spindles, center link, pitman arm, idler arm, idler arm bracket, inner and outer tie rods and adjusting sleeves. The best I have been able to price all this stuff excluding the spindles, as mentioned above is right around $300 bucks. To me though, on a 6 cylinder car you need to do this regardless of which braking system you go with so that you have the heavier duty components to account for the extra weight on the front end and to have the ability to stop the larger motor faster. Also, I personally like the look of the smaller wheels on the earlier cars. I am going to stay with a 14" wheel for now, and I don't want to have any fitment issues with the granada kit. I also think that the issues with the original granada conversion kits have since been corrected with the "recasted" granada spindles that are sold in today's kits. I think it comes down to personal preference really, but I also think that the granada calipers are a single piston caliper v/s a 4 piston caliper that is available in many of the other kits.

2+2GT · Jun 14, 2010

The situation with manual steer pre 1966 6 cylinder Falcons and 6 cylinder 65-66 Mustang is not that simple. You can not simply slap 65-66 V8 spindles on (even if you can find them) and then upgrade the brakes. The steering geometry of the 6 cylinder linkage is not correct for V8 spindles. The steering gear, including center link, pitman arm, idler arm and bracket, inner and outer tie rod arms, and tie rod adjuster sleeves will need to be upgraded to 65-66 V8 type (65 Falcon type with 63-65 Falcon). This will cost about $300.
Exactly right. I was not aware, however, that we were discussing the steering linkage. I was addressing the spindles.

The point about wheel fit does not make sense either. Upgrading a 6 cylinder to Ford type 5 lug disc brakes requires substituting in fitting aftermarket wheels regardless of if the brakes are stock 65-66 or Granada type. So the large hubs on the Granada rotor is not an issue.
Not necessarily. Plain steel or styled steel wheels might be desired. Often as not, people are changing a V8 car from drum to disc, and their stock or repro wheels would not fit the Granada hubs.

It is also a well know fact that Granada spindles are available with 65-66 V8 correct steering geometry.
Not so well known, actually. Of course, you'd have a different perspective, being a provider. Typically, the "Granada conversion" involves greasy parts fron U-Pick-It. These would NOT be what you are referring to.

In fact, a complete kit, with all new parts, is available for $525 ($595 for 4 lug version), including correct V8 spindles and outer tie rods. The $600 stock conversion you mention above does not include the cost of spindles.
Actually, I was referring to your 65-66 disc conversion, based in existing V8 spindles.

The Granada kit is by far the most economical choice for a Ford type disc brake conversion on a 65-73 Mustang that is missing its spindles, or a 65-66 6 cylinder Mustang.
If we are discussing both disc and V8 conversion simultaneously, yes. The days of cheap 64-66 used V8 spindles are just about over. Unless you plan to start making them. IIRC, Cobra Automotive sells drum-style spindles, but frankly I don't know if they are new parts or reconditioned originals.

chris66dad · Jun 14, 2010

I have the Granada kit from CSRP and it stops very well. It is powerful enough to stop consistently with no fade. I do not see how it would make much difference except if you are auto crossing or pushing it really hard for long periods and getting to the point of having your disks fade. Mine is a daily driver though....
Just wanted to add my 2 cents that the kit is a great value and offers very good performance.
I also have no bumpsteer with the re engineered CSRP spindles

grainboy · Jun 17, 2010

Chris, What specs did you use for an alignment? 0, 0, 1/8 " in?
That is what i asked for, but not what I got. Steering feels loose on freeway, and has a tad of bumpsteer. I have 0 camber and 2.5 deg negative caster.

BTW, I have granada spindles with Mustang Steve bushings with 6 cyl everything else.

chris66dad · Jun 17, 2010

-.25 camber
+3.0 caster
1/16 tow in

Very stable and responsive

Spindles?

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