Starting "click" and nothing else

nascaradam6 · Jun 15, 2018

Alright guys I'm out of options here. When I go to start all I get is a click. Brand new optima battery. Brand new starter. New solenoid. It's a hard click I can feel in the starter itself. Battery is in trunk. All grounds clean and secure. I even brought battery to front and jumped it directly to solenoid. Both sides to bypass all ignition wiring. Same click. I have removed plugs and engine spins freely by hand. Could use some help!

92 GT H.C.I & long tubes with bottom end fresh as well. This thing has been running since build. Sat over the winter because it had a power drain and I got tired of jumping it. I tracked down the draw to the durrell automatic fan controller. That is currently unhooked.

91TwighlightGT · Jun 15, 2018

It sounds like the starter itself could be bad. They can still click, but not have enough power to turn the engine.

Edit: I know you have a new one, just saying the possibility exists.

You could see if it would spin the engine with the plugs out. That would indicate it either isn’t getting enough voltage or is too weak.

Boostedpimp · Jun 15, 2018

Did you just do the battery relocation? How do you have the battery grounded?

nascaradam6 · Jun 15, 2018

I have the plugs out as well and same click. I have checked voltage at the solenoid and at the starter. 12.4v no load and 10.9v under start load. Battery was already in the trunk when I bought the car. I have checked and cleaned all the grounds. Battery is grounded to the quad shock mount in the back. And the stock ground locations up front.

Boostedpimp · Jun 15, 2018

You have power at the starter so I would put my money on the starter being the problem.. but the click means it's either the solenoid on the starter and functioning correctly or there's not enough power to kick it over. You said there was 12.4v so I would have to say it's the starter solenoid. There should be a procedure on the net somewhere to bench test the starter and solenoid to verify that is the problem.

95BlueStallion · Jun 15, 2018

Its a long shot, but I had a bad red top once. Didnt matter how I charged it, it never held a charge from day one. May be worth trying a battery out of one of your DDs.

Also, is the new starter you installed a "mini" starter? They have to be wired differently than stock. LMR and American Muscle have videos on how to if you happen to need it. Just taking guesses here...

nascaradam6 · Jun 15, 2018

I had the new starter tested at AutoZone before I brought it home. And as far as a bad red top goes. I have jumped it off my DD with the same results.

91TwighlightGT · Jun 15, 2018

You may want to test the starter. If you can do it carefully, apply 12 volts to the starter and see if it spins. Extremely important that the car is not in gear! Attach good wires to the starter and apply them to a know goodbye battery off the car.

You can also take the starter off and apply 12 volts. Best to put it in a vice this way.

If your wires are bad internally they may not supply sustained voltage needed to start the car.

nascaradam6 · Jun 15, 2018

I think that my next play will be to replace the starter wires from the solenoid to the starter. Is there a way to test those wires for current loss other than voltage? I get the same V at the starter and the solenoid. No load and under load.

Boostedpimp · Jun 15, 2018

nascaradam6 said:
I had the new starter tested at AutoZone before I brought it home. And as far as a bad red top goes. I have jumped it off my DD with the same results.

What did they test? That it spun? I'm sure it'll spin when you put 12v to it directly. What I'm saying is that there is either not enough power to the little cylinder on the starter (the solenoid) or that little cylinder isn't doing it's job and transferring the power. You said took volt readings at the starter so that rules out the cabling to the stater and the battery right

nascaradam6 · Jun 15, 2018

Boostedpimp said:
What did they test? That it spun? I'm sure it'll spin when you put 12v to it directly. What I'm saying is that there is either not enough power to the little cylinder on the starter (the solenoid) or that little cylinder isn't doing it's job and transferring the power. You said took volt readings at the starter so that rules out the cabling to the stater and the battery right

I suppose you are correct. I will try another starter. What are y'all thoughts on those high torque mini starters? As far as the wiring goes. Yes it reads the same voltage at the solenoid and at the starter. I was just wondering if the wiring was bad could it still read 12v but not be transferring all the CCA through the wiring. Is there a way to test that? Or would a larger voltage drop be the only sign of bad wiring. I am mechanically inclined but wiring illiterate.

mikestang63 · Jun 15, 2018

voltage drop test

jrichker · Jun 15, 2018

Time to lean new things...

No Crank checklist for 5.0 Mustangs

Revised 24 May 2018 to add check for backup lights harness as a no crank problem.

No crank, slow crank and stuck starter solenoid problems have the same root causes – low battery voltage and poor connections. For that reason, they are grouped together.
Use the same initial group of tests to find the root cause of slow crank, no crank and stuck solenoid problems.

Since some of the tests will bypass the safety interlocks, make sure that the car is in neutral and the parking brake is set. Becoming a pancake isn’t part of the repair process…

1.) Will the car start if it is jumped? Then clean battery terminals and check battery for low charge and dead cells. A good battery will measure 12-13 volts at full charge with the ignition switch in the Run position but without the engine running.
A voltmeter placed across the battery terminals should show a minimum of 9.5-10 volts when the ignition switch is turned to the Start position and the starter engages or tries to engage. Less than this will result in a clicking solenoid, or slow cranking (if it cranks at all) or a starter solenoid that sticks and welds the contacts together.

Most auto parts stores will check your battery for free. It does not have to be installed in the car to have it checked; you can carry it with you to the auto parts store.

The battery posts and inside of the battery post terminals should be scraped clean with a knife or battery post cleaner tool. This little trick will fix a surprising number of no start problems.

The clamp on with 2 bolts battery terminal ends are a known problem causer. Any place you see green on a copper wire is corrosion. Corrosion gets in the clamped joint and works its way up the wire under the insulation. Corroded connections do not conduct electricity well. Avoid them like the plague...

If the starter solenoid welds the contacts, then the starter will attempt to run anytime there is power in the battery. The cables and solenoid will get very hot, and may even start smoking. The temporary fix for a welded starter solenoid is to disconnect the battery and smack the back of the solenoid housing a sharp blow with a hammer. This may cause the contacts to unstick and work normally for a while.

A voltmeter is handy if you are familiar with how to use it to find bad connections. Measure the voltage drop across a connection while trying to start the car: more than .25 volts across a connection indicates a problem. The voltage drop tests need to be done while cranking the engine. It's the current flowing through a connection or wire that causes the voltage drop.

See http://assets.fluke.com/appnotes/automotive/beatbook.pdf for help for help troubleshooting voltage drops across connections and components. .

Voltage drops should not exceed the following:
200 mV Wire or cable
300 mV Switch or solenoid
100 mV Ground
0.0V Connections
A voltage drop lower that spec is always acceptable.

2.) Check the battery to engine block ground down near the oil filter, and the ground behind the engine to the firewall. All grounds should be clean and shiny. Use some sandpaper to clean them up.

3.) Jump the big terminals on the starter solenoid next to the battery with a screwdriver - watch out for the sparks! If the engine cranks, the starter and power wiring is good. The starter relay is also known as a starter solenoid.

The rest of the tech note only concerns no crank problems. If your problem was a stuck solenoid, go back to step 1.

4.) Then pull the small push on connector (small red/blue wire) off the starter solenoid (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Then jump between the screw and the terminal that is connected to the battery. If it cranks, the relay is good and your problem is in the rest of the circuit.

5.) Remember to check the ignition switch, neutral safety switch on auto trans and the clutch safety switch on manual trans cars. If they are good, then you have wiring problems.

Typical start circuit...
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

6.) Pull the starter and take it to AutoZone or Pep Boys and have them test it. Starter fails test, then replace it. If you got this far, the starter is probably bad.

Starter solenoid wiring for 86-91 Mustang

Starter solenoid wiring 92-93 Mustang or earlier Mustang with upgraded high torque mini starter.

Electrical checks for the switches and starter solenoid
Remove the small red/blue wire from the starter solenoid. Use a screwdriver to bridge the connection from the battery positive connection on the starter solenoid to the small screw where the red/blue wire was connected. The starter should crank the engine. If it does not, the starter solenoid is defective or the battery lacks sufficient charge to crank the engine.

If the starter does crank the engine, the problem is in the clutch safety circuit (5 speed) or Neutral Sense Switch (auto trans) or ignition switch.

See the Typical start circuit diagram above for wiring information for troubleshooting.

You will need a voltmeter or test lamp for the rest of the checks. Connect one lead of the voltmeter or test lamp to ground. The other lead will connect to the item under test.
Look for 12 volts on the white/pink wire when the ignition switch is turned to the Start position. Check the ignition switch first.
No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch.

The next step will require you to push the clutch pedal to the floor (5 speed) or put the transmission in neutral (auto trans) while the ignition switch is turned to the Start position.
Good 12 volts, check the clutch safety switch (5 speed) or Neutral Sense Switch (auto trans) for good 12 volts on both sides of the switches. No 12 volts on both sides of the switch and the switches are defective or out of adjustment. Check the wiring for bad connections while you are at it.

The next check is courtesy of Killing Hours.
For manual shift transmissions only: check to see that the backup light switch harness is intact and in good condition. There is a wire in the harness that loops 2 pins coming from the body side of the harness. This is the bypass for the auto transmission Neutral Safety Switch. If the connector is damaged, oil soaked or missing you will have a no crank condition.

Backup lights harness for 5 Speed transmission showing the bypass loop for the Auto Trans NSS
Courtesy of Killing Hours

nascaradam6 · Jun 16, 2018

jrichker said:
Time to lean new things...

No Crank checklist for 5.0 Mustangs

Revised 24 May 2018 to add check for backup lights harness as a no crank problem.

No crank, slow crank and stuck starter solenoid problems have the same root causes – low battery voltage and poor connections. For that reason, they are grouped together.
Use the same initial group of tests to find the root cause of slow crank, no crank and stuck solenoid problems.

Since some of the tests will bypass the safety interlocks, make sure that the car is in neutral and the parking brake is set. Becoming a pancake isn’t part of the repair process…

1.) Will the car start if it is jumped? Then clean battery terminals and check battery for low charge and dead cells. A good battery will measure 12-13 volts at full charge with the ignition switch in the Run position but without the engine running.
A voltmeter placed across the battery terminals should show a minimum of 9.5-10 volts when the ignition switch is turned to the Start position and the starter engages or tries to engage. Less than this will result in a clicking solenoid, or slow cranking (if it cranks at all) or a starter solenoid that sticks and welds the contacts together.

Most auto parts stores will check your battery for free. It does not have to be installed in the car to have it checked; you can carry it with you to the auto parts store.

The battery posts and inside of the battery post terminals should be scraped clean with a knife or battery post cleaner tool. This little trick will fix a surprising number of no start problems.

The clamp on with 2 bolts battery terminal ends are a known problem causer. Any place you see green on a copper wire is corrosion. Corrosion gets in the clamped joint and works its way up the wire under the insulation. Corroded connections do not conduct electricity well. Avoid them like the plague...

If the starter solenoid welds the contacts, then the starter will attempt to run anytime there is power in the battery. The cables and solenoid will get very hot, and may even start smoking. The temporary fix for a welded starter solenoid is to disconnect the battery and smack the back of the solenoid housing a sharp blow with a hammer. This may cause the contacts to unstick and work normally for a while.

A voltmeter is handy if you are familiar with how to use it to find bad connections. Measure the voltage drop across a connection while trying to start the car: more than .25 volts across a connection indicates a problem. The voltage drop tests need to be done while cranking the engine. It's the current flowing through a connection or wire that causes the voltage drop.

See http://assets.fluke.com/appnotes/automotive/beatbook.pdf for help for help troubleshooting voltage drops across connections and components. .

Voltage drops should not exceed the following:
200 mV Wire or cable
300 mV Switch or solenoid
100 mV Ground
0.0V Connections
A voltage drop lower that spec is always acceptable.

2.) Check the battery to engine block ground down near the oil filter, and the ground behind the engine to the firewall. All grounds should be clean and shiny. Use some sandpaper to clean them up.

3.) Jump the big terminals on the starter solenoid next to the battery with a screwdriver - watch out for the sparks! If the engine cranks, the starter and power wiring is good. The starter relay is also known as a starter solenoid.

The rest of the tech note only concerns no crank problems. If your problem was a stuck solenoid, go back to step 1.

4.) Then pull the small push on connector (small red/blue wire) off the starter solenoid (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Then jump between the screw and the terminal that is connected to the battery. If it cranks, the relay is good and your problem is in the rest of the circuit.

5.) Remember to check the ignition switch, neutral safety switch on auto trans and the clutch safety switch on manual trans cars. If they are good, then you have wiring problems.

Typical start circuit...
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

6.) Pull the starter and take it to AutoZone or Pep Boys and have them test it. Starter fails test, then replace it. If you got this far, the starter is probably bad.

Starter solenoid wiring for 86-91 Mustang

Starter solenoid wiring 92-93 Mustang or earlier Mustang with upgraded high torque mini starter.

Electrical checks for the switches and starter solenoid
Remove the small red/blue wire from the starter solenoid. Use a screwdriver to bridge the connection from the battery positive connection on the starter solenoid to the small screw where the red/blue wire was connected. The starter should crank the engine. If it does not, the starter solenoid is defective or the battery lacks sufficient charge to crank the engine.

If the starter does crank the engine, the problem is in the clutch safety circuit (5 speed) or Neutral Sense Switch (auto trans) or ignition switch.

See the Typical start circuit diagram above for wiring information for troubleshooting.

You will need a voltmeter or test lamp for the rest of the checks. Connect one lead of the voltmeter or test lamp to ground. The other lead will connect to the item under test.
Look for 12 volts on the white/pink wire when the ignition switch is turned to the Start position. Check the ignition switch first.
No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch.

The next step will require you to push the clutch pedal to the floor (5 speed) or put the transmission in neutral (auto trans) while the ignition switch is turned to the Start position.
Good 12 volts, check the clutch safety switch (5 speed) or Neutral Sense Switch (auto trans) for good 12 volts on both sides of the switches. No 12 volts on both sides of the switch and the switches are defective or out of adjustment. Check the wiring for bad connections while you are at it.

The next check is courtesy of Killing Hours.
For manual shift transmissions only: check to see that the backup light switch harness is intact and in good condition. There is a wire in the harness that loops 2 pins coming from the body side of the harness. This is the bypass for the auto transmission Neutral Safety Switch. If the connector is damaged, oil soaked or missing you will have a no crank condition.

Backup lights harness for 5 Speed transmission showing the bypass loop for the Auto Trans NSS
Courtesy of Killing Hours

Wow thank you for this. I found similar ones but not this exact write up. I will follow the steps and report back. Thanks again!

Boostedpimp · Jun 20, 2018

@nascaradam6 keep us informed how you make out. I'm curious to see what it turns out to be

nascaradam6 · Jun 20, 2018

I believe I have found the problem. I did a voltage drop test. Found at the battery was 1000 CCA and only 200 CCA at the solenoid. That's 80% loss through the battery cable. New 0 gauge wire showed up today. Currently installing and I will report back.

nascaradam6 · Aug 19, 2018

Here's an update guys. Sorry for the delayed response. New 0 gauge power wire installed from the trunk battery to solenoid. New 0 gauge ground from battery to quad shock mount. New wires from solenoid to starter. Same damn problem. Now if I take a set of jumper cables and connect ground only on battery all the way to the motor it will turn right over. No problem. Tells me it's a ground problem. I suppose I have to run a ground from battery to motor. But why is the chassis no longer a reliable ground. This has never been a problem. And has ran fine this way for 10+ years.

mikestang63 · Aug 19, 2018

Run a ground from the front chassis to the block and that should solve the problem.
Are all of the grounds tight, clean and shiny with no paint or grime?

nascaradam6 · Aug 19, 2018

Yes all the grounds are clean and checked twice now. There is already a ground ran from the firewall to the back of the head. It's the stock braded ground. What baffles me is why this is an issue now.

jrichker · Aug 19, 2018

Look at the voltage drop test in my previous post. That's how you will find the problem.

Rear mounted battery ground wiring. Follow this plan and you will have zero
ground problems.

One 1 gauge or 1/0 gauge wire from battery negative post to a clean shiny spot on the chassis near the battery. Use a 5/16” bolt and bolt it down to make the rear ground. Use a 1 gauge or 1/0 gauge wire from the rear ground bolt to a clean shiny spot on the block.

One 4 gauge wire from the block where you connected the battery ground wire to the chassis ground where the battery was mounted up front. Use a 5/16” bolt and bolt down the 4 gauge engine to chassis ground, make sure that it the metal around the bolt is clean & shiny. This is the alternator power ground.

The computer has a dedicated power ground wire with a cylindrical quick connect (about 2 ½”long by 1” diameter. It comes out of the wiring harness near the ignition coil & starter solenoid (or relay). Be sure to bolt it to the chassis ground in the same place as you bolted the alternator power ground. This is an
absolute don’t overlook it item for EFI cars
Note: The quick disconnect may have fallen victim to damage or removal by a previous owner. However, it is still of utmost importance that the black/green wires have a high quality ground..

Picture courtesy timewarped1972

Crimp or even better, solder the lugs on the all the wire. The local auto stereo shop will have them if the auto parts store doesn't. Use some heat shrink tubing to cover the lugs and make things look nice.

Starting "click" and nothing else

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