Starting H/C/I swap..

69Rcode_Mach1

Active Member

Apr 20, 2004

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Salt Lake City, Utah

Nov 30, 2004

#1

• Nov 30, 2004

• #1

Hey guys I've decided to make this thread to help future stangnetters with the common problems and questions associated with a heads, cam, and intake swap. Along with help me get some info and feedback on questions and problems I run into during this process. Right now I have begun the disassembly on my motor. I am going to be taking the whole block out and repainting it and the engine bay. I am also going to replace the rod blots with ARP Rod bolts. Ronstang has been a great deal of help in this endeavor and all wisdom has come from him. Well I took off my heads and discovered that the pistons have got HUGE dishes in them. Ron concluded that they are around 8-8.5 - 1 compression which sucks. So im going to save up some more and buy some forged 11.1 compression pistons. Check my sig for the parts that will be used. Im going to be putting ARP bolts all over the engine summit sells a kit for the whole engine except for head and rod bolts. Anyways I am currently putting together my shopping list as I am getting my Victor Jr.'s very soon. Things like the bolt kits and such are on there. Now I want to know about pushrods. I have taken out the original pushrods out of the motor I was an idiot and didn't mark to which roller rocker they went to. And I am considering going with new hardened ones. Does anybody know if the stock length pushrod fits the Victor Jr. Heads by edelbrock? If so should I reuse my old ones if it doesn't matter what lifter they were on, or should i pay for some new ones? I will begin posting pics of this whole operation as soon as possible. Thanks a lot guys.

 

Great68

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May 16, 2002

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Victoria BC

Nov 30, 2004

#2

• Nov 30, 2004

• #2

I'm pretty sure you need new hardened pushrods with those heads.

I don't know if the length should be the same as stock or not.

 

69Rcode_Mach1

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Apr 20, 2004

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Salt Lake City, Utah

Nov 30, 2004

#3

• Nov 30, 2004

• #3

PICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well guys here are some pics to help start you off. Day 1 I began marking all of the wires and vacuum lines and took a bunch of pics for research purposes.

 

69Rcode_Mach1

Active Member

Apr 20, 2004

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Salt Lake City, Utah

Nov 30, 2004

#4

• Nov 30, 2004

• #4

Some more. These are of Day 2. Basically all that i have done is taken off the valve covers, carbeurator, and began to unhook some of the vacuum lines.

 

69Rcode_Mach1

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Apr 20, 2004

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Salt Lake City, Utah

Nov 30, 2004

#5

• Nov 30, 2004

• #5

And here are Day 3, I took off the rocker arms, a cylinder head, intake manifold, header, Distributor, water pump, radiator and front grill. I know the pics still have all the radiator, fan, and water pump but my camera died. After i took these pics ill put more up later as i progress. Right now I'm trying to find a cherry picker, and an engine stand to borrow. I wasn't planning on taking the motor out but after seeing the freaking dishes in the pistons and the low compression they were producing I decided it was necessary and now I can do it right once and repaint the bay and put in ARP Bolts.

 

Max Power

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Jul 31, 2003

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St Paul

Dec 1, 2004

#6

• Dec 1, 2004

• #6

I thought you already asked about the pushrods in another thread?

Anyway, you are converting to heads with adjustable rockers and guide plates. That will require hardened push rods built for that application. Check with Edelbrock on the length, I am pretty sure they are the same. Hardened push rods will go anywhere from $50.00 to $150.00.

When buying ARP bolts for you rods and mains, make sure Summit know you have a 351. Quite often their catalog says small block ford, which means 302. 351s use bigger bolts.

Also, since you are almost there, you should just do a short block rebuild.

11:1 is a little too much for the street, IMO. Also, make sure those psitons will clear the valves in your heads

 

69Rcode_Mach1

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Apr 20, 2004

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Salt Lake City, Utah

Dec 2, 2004

#7

• Dec 2, 2004

• #7

Thanks man. Yeah I asked in another thread but no body answered me on the whole length issue. Im going to call edelbrock today and see if its the stock length. I am just doing an all out rebuild now yeah, and thanks for the info on the rod bolts. I will make sure to let summit know. Is 11.1 really to high for the street i don't mind paying for premium pump gas? Stock the 69 mach 1 4 Barrrel are rated at 11.1 but run around 10.7.1 compression. Also I want to buy the FRPP 1.7 Rocker arms but those only come in 3/8 studs, the victor jr.s come with 7/16 do you know of any rocker studs that will convert it for me by having the part that inserts into the head be 7/16 and the top half for the rockers be 3/8. Thanks a lot.

 

Max Power

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Jul 31, 2003

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St Paul

Dec 3, 2004

#8

• Dec 3, 2004

• #8

Check the Crane and Comp catalogs. You may also be able to use Chevy rockers in that ratio with that stud. Call there tech lines and they should be able to help you out.

 

69Rcode_Mach1

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Apr 20, 2004

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Salt Lake City, Utah

Dec 19, 2004

#9

• Dec 19, 2004

• #9

Hey guys its been a while but Im in the disassembly phase of my motor now that I have it out, and i can't seem to get the harmonic balancer off. I have taken the pulley off, and that one really big 15/16" bolt in the center. Is there anything else that i am forgetting? Or should i just figure out a way to tug really hard? If so any secret methods i have tried tugging. I will try to get pics up of Day 4 and 5 ASAP. Sorry for not updating you guys but i have had limited days to work on it.

 

Great68

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May 16, 2002

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Victoria BC

Dec 19, 2004

#10

• Dec 19, 2004

• #10

69Rcode_Mach1 said:

Hey guys its been a while but Im in the disassembly phase of my motor now that I have it out, and i can't seem to get the harmonic balancer off. I have taken the pulley off, and that one really big 15/16" bolt in the center. Is there anything else that i am forgetting? Or should i just figure out a way to tug really hard? If so any secret methods i have tried tugging. I will try to get pics up of Day 4 and 5 ASAP. Sorry for not updating you guys but i have had limited days to work on it.

Click to expand...

You have to use a puller tool to get the balancer off.

 

69Rcode_Mach1

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Apr 20, 2004

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Salt Lake City, Utah

Dec 19, 2004

#11

• Dec 19, 2004

• #11

Any kind of homemade remedy i can use? or do i have to buy the tool?

 

N

nosaj122081

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Mar 5, 2003

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West Virginia

Dec 19, 2004

#12

• Dec 19, 2004

• #12

Don't forget if you change rod bolts you need the big end of the rods resized. I wouldn't waste money on things like ARP water pump, intake, valve cover, etc. bolts. I'd only use ARP for the important ones.

 

69Rcode_Mach1

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Apr 20, 2004

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Salt Lake City, Utah

Dec 19, 2004

#13

• Dec 19, 2004

• #13

Thats what I was thinking, I need to find an engine bolt kit. Does summit sell those I know they sell ARP ones, but those are $$$.

 

N

nosaj122081

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Mar 5, 2003

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Dec 19, 2004

#14

• Dec 19, 2004

• #14

I get SS bolt kits for the incidental engine stuff off EBay, theres guys that sell complete hex-head SS kits for like 20 or 30 clams. I had one for the BB I was building, and it was all in separate bags and marked, and was all good quality. I'm buying one from the same guy (his SN was BP Motorworks or something like that) for my 351C. Nice thing is after you buy it you can add upgrades to the basic kit, I added a set of header bolts and I changed from valve cover bolts to studs (I like studs, makes getting the gasket lined up a snap, I run solid cams so I gotta take them off once in a while). Then all you need to do is add the rod, main, head, and whatever intergral fastners of your choice.

 

88 Fox GT

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Nov 18, 2002

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Dec 19, 2004

#15

• Dec 19, 2004

• #15

69Rcode_Mach1 said:

Any kind of homemade remedy i can use? or do i have to buy the tool?

Click to expand...

Just borrow one from Autozone.

 

Hissing Cobra

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Jan 4, 2002

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Dec 19, 2004

#16

• Dec 19, 2004

• #16

Good luck on the rebuild! The 11:1 compression ratio will probably be o.k. on the street/track if you use 93 octane. It's cutting it close though. The aluminum heads will work to your advantage here. I've got AFR 185's and run 10:8:1 compression with no problems whatsoever. Of course, I run 93 octane all the time.

I agree with nosaj122081 about the ARP bolts. It's overkill to use them on everything. Just buy the most important bolts and reuse the stock bolts on everything else. You'll save cash there. Resizing the rods is a must, as are the hardened pushrods (especially if you have the guideplates.)

Good luck!

 

69Rcode_Mach1

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Apr 20, 2004

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Salt Lake City, Utah

Dec 19, 2004

#17

• Dec 19, 2004

• #17

How much will resizing the rods cost me? I didn't know i would have to do that. Also how does a harmonic balancer puller work? I know how it attatches with the 3 bolts and all. Is it a socket adapter? What im getting at is does the HB have to be pulled off or twisted off?

 

Max Power

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Jul 31, 2003

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St Paul

Dec 19, 2004

#18

• Dec 19, 2004

• #18

Pulled off.

There are three or four bolt holes in your harmonic. The puller will have bolts that will go into two or three of those holes. The puller will have a big threaded rod in the center, and it will have a large hex nut at the top. When you turn the hex nut, the shaft will move towards the motor until it hits something. Leave your harmonic bolt in the end of the crank two or three turns, and use the head of that bolt as the stopping point for the center shaft of the puller. Now, as you turn it, the balancer will slowly come off. You will see what I mean when you have the puller. Just buy one, they are under $20.

As far as resizing the rods, that may or may not be neccesary. If you are doing a full rebuild with new bearings, I would definately do it.

Since it appears either your motor has been rebuilt or is not original, you may not have the original rods in there, and the rods you have can determine whether you can get away with just swapping rod bolts out.

The moral of the story is, you are building an engine that will turn a fair amount of power at a higher RPM band. To do that in the real world, it's never a good idea to build a motor piecemeal. Your weakest link will bite you in the ass at some point.

Congrats! You are now an automotive victim of "Project Creep".

It has happened to all of us.

 

69Rcode_Mach1

Active Member

Apr 20, 2004

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37

Salt Lake City, Utah

Dec 19, 2004

#19

• Dec 19, 2004

• #19

Thanks for the helpful info Max Power. I went and borrowed one from autozone tonight and pulled it off along with the timing chain and camshaft. Tomorrow i will take out the pistons and crank. And try to finish sanding the engine bay.

 

N

nosaj122081

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Mar 5, 2003

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West Virginia

Dec 19, 2004

#20

• Dec 19, 2004

• #20

A resize is pretty much manditory when you change rod bolts... You're changing the torque specs and characteristics on the rod and cap, and you need to get them round for the given amount of torque, ie a resize. ARP "recommends" it any time the bolts are replaced. I wouldn't leave that step out, really easy way to spin a rod bearing; its cheap insurance (only around $80-$100 for a set), make sure you tell the machinist doing it what torque spec to use. Plus most rod bolts press in, gettin' them that much more outta round (don't know anything about 351W rods though).