stock 2 valve engines are garbage! carnage!!

[OinkAodeOink]

Heres my situation.. Bone stock 01 GT 4R70w, 327 gear, 60-1 Custom intercooled turbo setup ( blow through), 42lb injectors, 90mm L maf, SVT Focus pump w/ rewire, Mod Depot X cal 2 tune ( 93 octane), low boost, conservitive driver.


I finally got the MODULAR DEPOT sct tune in ( via X cal 2) installed the 42lb injectors with caution ( lubed O rings) installed Lighting meter and upon start up the car idled like complete ****, surging very badly.. Ok, no big deal right, that can be tuned out, and part throttle was fine. I turn the block, round a corner...get into a little boost, and before the motor even revs out, and hits full boost.. ( keep in mind, no noticable detonation) POW!, and then the worst sound ever, like I was dragging metal trash cans under the car, and then clunk clunk and she locked up!

So after pulling the plugs ( perfect burn on them, NO sign of detonation what so ever) , and checking over everything, it seems somehow with VERY little effort, on probably less thne 10psi ( didnt get a chance to see the gauge, although I have the Tial 38 gated for 10psi), in 1st gear, half throttle, and possibly the WORST tune ever, I completely whipped out the #1 piston ( laying in the bottom end), bent the rod in half and sent the rod through the block, causing the block to crack into the coolent passage, allowing the coolent to pass through and fill the bottom end of the motor with a mixture of coolent and oil.
I still havent pulled the pass side head to check out the damage to the valves or head, but hope to god it's repairable.

Needless to say, I applied for a loan yesterday, got the $4 grand and will be purchasing either a MMR 900 shortblock or MPH street/strip shortblock here shortly ( both consisting of Cobra crank, manley rods and ross or manley pistons) Hopefully this new motor will take to the VERY LITTLE boost I was running, better then the stock ****. That and I am geting a REAL tuner to tune the X cal 2.. and probably upgrading the fuel system with a BAP, and X tender on the mass air. Would like to push 450-500 rwhp this time around.


That's my little horror story for those who want to push the limits of their stock 2 valve without a trustworthy tuner at hand.

 

[OinkAodeOink]

and while im at it, why the hell not post pics of the car, turbo setup and come Monday, when I tear the motor down, some pics of the CARNAGE!! lol

 

[DropTopPony]

Thats sucks! but like most will tell you it really is in the tune how long your stock shortblock will last. Good luck on the next try and your car is pretty sweet!

 

[tomustang]

:Word:

 

[DBMSTNG]

wait a minute, so you ran the car in boost without going to the dyno to make sure it didn't run lean?

if so, it's not the engine that's the problem, it's you.

saying the stock motor is garbage is stupid. thousands of people have run 8-12psi on the stock motor. the only reason they blow is when they are not installed or tuned properly. with a bad tune or install, you'll kill a forged motor too.

 

[03ghoststang]

that sucks dude well just get the new block and get a real good tune before you get into boost

 

[1fast03pony]

wait a minute, so you ran the car in boost without going to the dyno to make sure it didn't run lean?

if so, it's not the engine that's the problem, it's you.

saying the stock motor is garbage is stupid. thousands of people have run 8-12psi on the stock motor. the only reason they blow is when they are not installed or tuned properly. with a bad tune or install, you'll kill a forged motor too.

its the engine and the tune. everyone knows the stock internals suck for FI. why would you say otherwise?

 

[OinkAodeOink]

Well Like I stated above.. The next time around I am going to get a real tuner to tune the car, and not rely on a mail order tune from some place that doesnt know what they are doing. I don't know, but I figured I could trust there tune enough to atleast run 5psi, just blipping the throttle enough to feel the boost.. Aperently not!
I never got into full boost, full load, or even out of 1st gear. From what I felt, and my 94 has been through this all so I know.. The car at the time of letting go, was pulling less then 300rwhp, less then 5k rpm, and no sign of detonation, and smelled pig rich at idle ( although that has no effect on WOT)

Plain and simple... Mod motors are much more weak when compared to a pushrod motor, in the sence that stock for stock the pushrod 5.0 is MUCH more boost friendly.. This mod motor rods aparently give NO, and I mean NO room for error.

 

[FalconGuy016]

Yeah... I have always been upset finding out how weak the 2v components are.

Then again, I probably won't be supercharging or anything because I'm poor, so I have little to really worry about.

That sucks man At least youre taking proper action It will truely rock after that.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

I turn the block, round a corner...get into a little boost, and before the motor even revs out, and hits full boost.. ( keep in mind, no noticable detonation) POW!, and then the worst sound ever, like I was dragging metal trash cans under the car, and then clunk clunk and she locked up!

So after pulling the plugs ( perfect burn on them, NO sign of detonation what so ever) , and checking over everything, it seems somehow with VERY little effort, on probably less thne 10psi ( didnt get a chance to see the gauge, although I have the Tial 38 gated for 10psi), in 1st gear, half throttle, and possibly the WORST tune ever, I completely whipped out the #1 piston ( laying in the bottom end), bent the rod in half and sent the rod through the block, causing the block to crack into the coolent passage, allowing the coolent to pass through and fill the bottom end of the motor with a mixture of coolent and oil.
I still havent pulled the pass side head to check out the damage to the valves or head, but hope to god it's repairable.

Needless to say, I applied for a loan yesterday, got the $4 grand and will be purchasing either a MMR 900 shortblock or MPH street/strip shortblock here shortly ( both consisting of Cobra crank, manley rods and ross or manley pistons) Hopefully this new motor will take to the VERY LITTLE boost I was running, better then the stock ****. That and I am geting a REAL tuner to tune the X cal 2.. and probably upgrading the fuel system with a BAP, and X tender on the mass air. Would like to push 450-500 rwhp this time around.

Welcome to the land of "you should have known better". Mod motors are just fine for N/A application and there are thousands of high mileage, driven within an inch of their life Taxi's and Police Cars running the streets of North America to attest this, but the piston top ring land is notoriously lacking metal with these motors, and I'll bet Tom's life that this is what went and took the rest of the engine with it. I’ve heard of them breaking under 3psi, so 10psi is way more than enough to ruin your day. You don't need to see white plugs to have gotten detonation. All it takes is a split second under load and one little knock to send these already fragile slugs into oblivion....and after that, it's a chain reaction. The piston goes, and then jams sideways in the bore, causing the tooth pick like connection rods to bend and break, sending them into the block. This throws everything out of whack, causing the pistons and valves to come together in a most unharmonious way.

It sucks, huh?

That's my little horror story for those who want to push the limits of their stock 2 valve without a trustworthy tuner at hand.

And now the real culprit shows its ugly head. Expensive lesson learned.

 

[Mustang5L5]

Plain and simple... Mod motors are much more weak when compared to a pushrod motor, in the sence that stock for stock the pushrod 5.0 is MUCH more boost friendly.. This mod motor rods aparently give NO, and I mean NO room for error.

I feel it's the opposite. I think the mod motors are a little more beefier than a stock pushrod 5.0...but that's just my opinion

 

[tomustang]

and I'll bet Tom's life that this is what went and took the rest of the engine with it.

whew

 

[DropTopPony]

and I'll bet Tom's life that this is what went and took the rest of the engine with it.

No don't bet on Tommy! who would watch over SN while the rest of us are on vacation or Holiday for you Canuck's.
Bet on Trout....
j/k KT

 

[JayC]

I have to disagree about the stock motors also. Mine has taken a beating from a 150 shot for 2 years now without any problems. If it died tomorrow I wouldn't be dissapointed. I'm not sure abouy the 5.0 being any stronger in stock form but without H/C/I they can't run with the mod motors



Jay

 

[DBMSTNG]

its the engine and the tune. everyone knows the stock internals suck for FI. why would you say otherwise?

because i know what the hell i'm talking about. i ran 9psi on my stock block just fine and i beat the hell out of it. go to modularpowerhouse and see how many cars are running 380-420rwhp with the stock bottom end. some for 20-30k miles. if you stay within the power limits of the stock internals and have a good tune, it's not a problem. everyone knows the limits of the stock shortblock, if he exceeded that, that's HIS MISTAKE. if he drove it any way other than babying it before checking the a/f ratio guess what, IT'S HIS MISTAKE.

 

[DBMSTNG]

the only thing stronger in the stock 5.0L are pistons in the model years in which they were forged. the rods are made of the same hyperuetectic(sp?) metal. the blocks are nowhere near as strond as the mods.

 

[Josh-'96 GT]

the only thing stronger in the stock 5.0L are pistons in the model years in which they were forged. the rods are made of the same hyperuetectic(sp?) metal. the blocks are nowhere near as strond as the mods.

Exactly. :Word:

 

[L33T MinGrey GT]

Welcome to the land of "you should have known better". Mod motors are just fine for N/A application and there are thousands of high mileage, driven within an inch of their life Taxi's and Police Cars running the streets of North America to attest this, but the piston top ring land is notoriously lacking metal with these motors, and I'll bet Tom's life that this is what went and took the rest of the engine with it. I’ve heard of them breaking under 3psi, so 10psi is way more than enough to ruin your day. You don't need to see white plugs to have gotten detonation. All it takes is a split second under load and one little knock to send these already fragile slugs into oblivion....and after that, it's a chain reaction. The piston goes, and then jams sideways in the bore, causing the tooth pick like connection rods to bend and break, sending them into the block. This throws everything out of whack, causing the pistons and valves to come together in a most unharmonious way.

It sucks, huh?



And now the real culprit shows its ugly head. Expensive lesson learned.

Does this mean that the white stuff on my right head plugs (passenger side has all plugs white, driver side is candy dandy) is detonation?

Sheesh, you guys got me worried now...Please confirm I gotta check that out b4, I'd be on the look out for new heads and bottom end...

TIA!

 

[PonyboyIsaac]

Yup like its already been said its all in the tune and thats his mistake i guess. And as for the 5.0 being a more durable engine thats a bunch of crap,the 5.0 block is good for about 500 horses and i've heard of the 4.6 block being good for 750+hp. They both do have crappy powdered metal rods though, but with a good tune and as long as you dont over do the boost(above 10 psi) you should be alright for a good while.

 

[AntiRice98]

yea...the 99 and above engines are fine....that was your huge mistake trying to use it before tuned...i just saw a case where a guy put a upgraded blower on his 03 cobra and he blew the engine because he tryed using it before it was tuned...your mistake....