Sub Frame Connectors
- Thread starter Soaring1
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RGS0907
New Member
RGS0907 said:
I was hoping that someone would help me understand this here. I have a GT500 & was seriously thinking about putting in subframe connectors. The entire body is creaking these days because of body flex & I would like to enjoy the car again (I've owned it a long time) rather than own a garage queen.. I'm also considering R&P steering. The only thing is - that if the process isn't reversable, I don't want to do it.
Best bang for the buck is a ring and pinion IMO.5.0StangRacer said:
EDIT: RSG...assuming you cannot hae two old Mustangs...if it were me I'd sell the authentic Shelby and buy a project car, you can cut/weld/grind/bolt on them all day and not worry about it.
It's not a irreversible modification, with careful grinding they could be removed without damaging the frame rail. I mean, if we can replace rusted out floor pans and frame rails, it's certainly not a big deal.
As far as flex, my stock 1 owner '65 coupe (an old lady) had tears in the C-pillars when I stripped it down. Modifying a rare model such as a shelby,GTA, etc. is a totally seperate issue based on personal preference.
As far as flex, my stock 1 owner '65 coupe (an old lady) had tears in the C-pillars when I stripped it down. Modifying a rare model such as a shelby,GTA, etc. is a totally seperate issue based on personal preference.
Cosmetically I agree Steve, but for a car I'm driving I don't like to think of the damage to the rails having had bars welded on then cut and ground off. Unlike a floor these sub-rails take an awful lot of stresses even under normal driving.
I can't argue with you there, one would have to be very careful not to cut into the original rail. Personally, I couldn't put them on anything but a "plain jane" car. I still can't decide on how much to modify my '65 4V coupe, if i can ever get it back on the road. I hate the thought of cutting it up too much, even knowing it could be returned to stock(with ALOT of work). CYA
Steve
Steve
RGS0907
New Member
OK, thanks
thanks for your input.. I've had the car a long time & I don't think that I want a another project car.. I'll have to figure out what's right here.
thanks for your input.. I've had the car a long time & I don't think that I want a another project car.. I'll have to figure out what's right here.
LMan said:
Did you buy the weld-in version of the competition engineering subframe connectors or the bolt-ins then weld those in?
I always thought the weld-in version of the competition engineering subframe connectos had to be used with their formed rear frame rails.
Let me know what you did, Thanks so much.
I am actually very interested in subframe connectors now, as they are pretty cheap to obtain, and I drive my car every day and would love some extra support....
Where would you take your car to get a set of these welded on? I have no garage or welder, so doing it myself is not an option.....
Where would you take your car to get a set of these welded on? I have no garage or welder, so doing it myself is not an option.....
LMan
Founding Member
SBC RACING said:
bolt-in, then welded them up. They fit perty well, no alterations of the frame-rails or anything like that. All in an afternoon, + cpl of beers.
LMan
Founding Member
DJCarbine said:
local muffler shop. Its not heavy-gauge steel, so the welders that a muff shop has will do the trick
LMan
Founding Member
all sfcs limit sidepipes to some extent, you will have to make some modifications to make it work.
Do nwhat you want
It seems to me that there is more concern about the "Originality" of Sub frame Con's and the percieved "devaluation" of someones prescious car. When actually, IMO, Sub frames Con's are all about bringing the old stangs up to par with todays technology, and the improved performance (racing or not) of adding the Subs.
If its YOUR car, build it for YOURSELF & do what you want. If youre so concerned about Originality & "Reversing" & "Ruining a good classic",, then, IMO, its really not YOUR car... it belongs to everyone out there who will look at it, and your just the one doing & paying for the work it takes to keep it running.
I ask you this... Has Mustang Monthly, Fast Fords, or any other national magazine asked to photograph your car for the cover? Do people SERIOUSLY ask to buy your car for $100,000 several times every day? Probably not, so... No one cares about your car. No one cares about MY cars... except me, so I build them the way I want so I can enjoy them. If you want a concourse trophy car, thats fine, but do yourself a favor & build a DRIVER with all the mods on it (Subs, R&P Steering, etc...) & dont looks back... just HAVE SOME FUN driving it!!
Im not trying to be a A$$... but I have been building Classic Cars & Bikes for many years & have seen over & over again the same situation, where someone is so woried about the "Originality" of their "Perfect" & prescious car that they miss out on the biggest & best part of having an old classic... DRIVING IT & enjoying it. So the paint gets a few chips, the windshield gets a few pits, etc... They are Fun To Drive!
So, Just as you upgrade Suspension, Brakes, HP in the motor... Rack & pinion Steering & subs are GREAT upgrades that are pretty much necessary when you do all the other stuff. True, they are not orininal... but neither is most everything else we do to them.
Consider this as well... Ford originaly bult these early mustangs as cheaply as possibly. They were cheap cars made to last a few years & be trashed. So, they were only built good enough to drive for a few years (which was actually pretty well built compared to todays paper thin compact cars). Its one of the reasons that Corvetts were so much more expensive then the Mustang... remember, Iacocca billed it as "The Sports Car For The Masses" because few could afford a Vette! But everyone could afford a cheap Mustang... it looked great, awesone style... poor performance & build... but so what,, they look cool... and are my personal FAVORITE car of all time (1967 to be specific!) Now, 30 years later, they are still around & in desperate need of upgrades. So if you wanna really enjoy your car, do it... it makes the car so much more fun (and safe) to drive... and thats really the whole point of EVERYTHING...
Personally, I put a Heidt Mustang II corssmember & Rack in the front, cut out the shock towers & add subs right off the bat on every 65-67 Mustang I have built, before any bodywork (providing its a good, straight body) If yopure familliar with that... its so far from original its rediculous... but it looks & performs like it should have been that way from the factory.
It really makes a WORLD of difference. Its great, and IMO, if Ford was interest in making the first Mustangs performers, they would not have just slapped some new body panals on a cheap Falcon, they would have put some engineering into them from the ground up & made them really perform... but then they would have been overpriced like the Vette & probably never have been the sucess they were. so why spend all the time & money restoring it to its original cheapness...
Well, back to the thread... Subs are really worth it, and by all means weld them in... its the only way to get them to work as they are supposed to. Bolt ins can shift & slide & actually cause damage.
Drive On!
It seems to me that there is more concern about the "Originality" of Sub frame Con's and the percieved "devaluation" of someones prescious car. When actually, IMO, Sub frames Con's are all about bringing the old stangs up to par with todays technology, and the improved performance (racing or not) of adding the Subs.
If its YOUR car, build it for YOURSELF & do what you want. If youre so concerned about Originality & "Reversing" & "Ruining a good classic",, then, IMO, its really not YOUR car... it belongs to everyone out there who will look at it, and your just the one doing & paying for the work it takes to keep it running.
I ask you this... Has Mustang Monthly, Fast Fords, or any other national magazine asked to photograph your car for the cover? Do people SERIOUSLY ask to buy your car for $100,000 several times every day? Probably not, so... No one cares about your car. No one cares about MY cars... except me, so I build them the way I want so I can enjoy them. If you want a concourse trophy car, thats fine, but do yourself a favor & build a DRIVER with all the mods on it (Subs, R&P Steering, etc...) & dont looks back... just HAVE SOME FUN driving it!!
Im not trying to be a A$$... but I have been building Classic Cars & Bikes for many years & have seen over & over again the same situation, where someone is so woried about the "Originality" of their "Perfect" & prescious car that they miss out on the biggest & best part of having an old classic... DRIVING IT & enjoying it. So the paint gets a few chips, the windshield gets a few pits, etc... They are Fun To Drive!
So, Just as you upgrade Suspension, Brakes, HP in the motor... Rack & pinion Steering & subs are GREAT upgrades that are pretty much necessary when you do all the other stuff. True, they are not orininal... but neither is most everything else we do to them.
Consider this as well... Ford originaly bult these early mustangs as cheaply as possibly. They were cheap cars made to last a few years & be trashed. So, they were only built good enough to drive for a few years (which was actually pretty well built compared to todays paper thin compact cars). Its one of the reasons that Corvetts were so much more expensive then the Mustang... remember, Iacocca billed it as "The Sports Car For The Masses" because few could afford a Vette! But everyone could afford a cheap Mustang... it looked great, awesone style... poor performance & build... but so what,, they look cool... and are my personal FAVORITE car of all time (1967 to be specific!) Now, 30 years later, they are still around & in desperate need of upgrades. So if you wanna really enjoy your car, do it... it makes the car so much more fun (and safe) to drive... and thats really the whole point of EVERYTHING...
Personally, I put a Heidt Mustang II corssmember & Rack in the front, cut out the shock towers & add subs right off the bat on every 65-67 Mustang I have built, before any bodywork (providing its a good, straight body) If yopure familliar with that... its so far from original its rediculous... but it looks & performs like it should have been that way from the factory.
It really makes a WORLD of difference. Its great, and IMO, if Ford was interest in making the first Mustangs performers, they would not have just slapped some new body panals on a cheap Falcon, they would have put some engineering into them from the ground up & made them really perform... but then they would have been overpriced like the Vette & probably never have been the sucess they were. so why spend all the time & money restoring it to its original cheapness...
Well, back to the thread... Subs are really worth it, and by all means weld them in... its the only way to get them to work as they are supposed to. Bolt ins can shift & slide & actually cause damage.
Drive On!
mdjay
Premium Sponsor
unless you own a very rare and expensive car, doing sensible modifications should only HELP the value of your car. If the modifications are ones that people would end up doing themselves once they buy the car from you, then it is worth more to them. I would rather have a modern drivetrain, a nice stereo, and modern wheels (and especially tires!), than buy a factory stock six cylinder secretary car. Put on some weld in subframe connectors and enjoy driving your car more!
Cannoball888
New Member
I have the TCP subframe connectors with X-frame assembly. the subframe connectors are welded in place and the X-frame bolts to the subframe with 4 bolts. I also have a driveshaft safety loop with it. I use the car strictly for the street, however i had a drive shaft break on an old car once and it destroyed the floor pan on it.
the subframe connectors alone are probably the most cost effective improvement you can do to improve the handling, chassis stiffness and ride quality of your vintage mustang.
the downside of adding the X-frame for me meant running a custom exhaust
but i went all out and added ceramic coated tri-ys, stainless steel tubing and stainless steel flowmaster 40s
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jamison42166/detail?.dir=9e20&.dnm=4cdcre2.jpg
the subframe connectors alone are probably the most cost effective improvement you can do to improve the handling, chassis stiffness and ride quality of your vintage mustang.
the downside of adding the X-frame for me meant running a custom exhaust
but i went all out and added ceramic coated tri-ys, stainless steel tubing and stainless steel flowmaster 40s
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jamison42166/detail?.dir=9e20&.dnm=4cdcre2.jpg
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