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  • 1965 - 1973 Classic Mustangs -General/Talk-
  • Classic Mustang Specific Tech

Sub Frame Connectors

  • Thread starter Thread starter Soaring1
  • Start date Start date Oct 5, 2005
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C

C0V3R

Member
Feb 14, 2003
524
0
16
Australia
Oct 7, 2005
#21
  • Oct 7, 2005
  • #21
Did you have them bolted in before? I have been wondering how much of a difference welding vs bolting would make. I have mine bolted in at the moment
 

RGS0907

New Member
Aug 21, 2003
429
1
0
New Jersey
Oct 8, 2005
#22
  • Oct 8, 2005
  • #22
RGS0907 said:
If you weld the connectors on & later want to return the car to stock, what would need to be done? Do the subframes need to be replaced or can you break the weld & still be able to grind it down to look stock?
Click to expand...

I was hoping that someone would help me understand this here. I have a GT500 & was seriously thinking about putting in subframe connectors. The entire body is creaking these days because of body flex & I would like to enjoy the car again (I've owned it a long time) rather than own a garage queen.. I'm also considering R&P steering. The only thing is - that if the process isn't reversable, I don't want to do it.
 

Edbert

Founding Member
Jul 13, 2002
3,548
32
109
Austin TX
Oct 8, 2005
#23
  • Oct 8, 2005
  • #23
5.0StangRacer said:
best bang-for-the-buck SFC's?
Click to expand...
Best bang for the buck is a ring and pinion IMO.


EDIT: RSG...assuming you cannot hae two old Mustangs...if it were me I'd sell the authentic Shelby and buy a project car, you can cut/weld/grind/bolt on them all day and not worry about it.
 
S

steve wilson

New Member
Aug 29, 2005
16
0
2
Oct 8, 2005
#24
  • Oct 8, 2005
  • #24
It's not a irreversible modification, with careful grinding they could be removed without damaging the frame rail. I mean, if we can replace rusted out floor pans and frame rails, it's certainly not a big deal.
As far as flex, my stock 1 owner '65 coupe (an old lady) had tears in the C-pillars when I stripped it down. Modifying a rare model such as a shelby,GTA, etc. is a totally seperate issue based on personal preference.
 

Edbert

Founding Member
Jul 13, 2002
3,548
32
109
Austin TX
Oct 8, 2005
#25
  • Oct 8, 2005
  • #25
Cosmetically I agree Steve, but for a car I'm driving I don't like to think of the damage to the rails having had bars welded on then cut and ground off. Unlike a floor these sub-rails take an awful lot of stresses even under normal driving.
 
S

steve wilson

New Member
Aug 29, 2005
16
0
2
Oct 9, 2005
#26
  • Oct 9, 2005
  • #26
I can't argue with you there, one would have to be very careful not to cut into the original rail. Personally, I couldn't put them on anything but a "plain jane" car. I still can't decide on how much to modify my '65 4V coupe, if i can ever get it back on the road. I hate the thought of cutting it up too much, even knowing it could be returned to stock(with ALOT of work). CYA
Steve
 

RGS0907

New Member
Aug 21, 2003
429
1
0
New Jersey
Oct 9, 2005
#27
  • Oct 9, 2005
  • #27
OK, thanks

thanks for your input.. I've had the car a long time & I don't think that I want a another project car.. I'll have to figure out what's right here.
 
S

SBC RACING

New Member
Nov 16, 2003
141
0
0
Santa Barbara, Califonia
Oct 11, 2005
#28
  • Oct 11, 2005
  • #28
LMan said:
I have Comp Eng subs, cost ~85.00 a pair, welded. I like them.

I have never tried GW, TCP, or whatever, so I cannot comment on them. I am sure they are fine also.
Click to expand...


Did you buy the weld-in version of the competition engineering subframe connectors or the bolt-ins then weld those in?

I always thought the weld-in version of the competition engineering subframe connectos had to be used with their formed rear frame rails.

Let me know what you did, Thanks so much.
 
D

DJCarbine

New Member
May 4, 2005
392
0
0
Oct 11, 2005
#29
  • Oct 11, 2005
  • #29
I am actually very interested in subframe connectors now, as they are pretty cheap to obtain, and I drive my car every day and would love some extra support....

Where would you take your car to get a set of these welded on? I have no garage or welder, so doing it myself is not an option.....
 

LMan

Founding Member
Aug 10, 2002
1,246
0
0
Mom's basement
Oct 11, 2005
#30
  • Oct 11, 2005
  • #30
SBC RACING said:
Did you buy the weld-in version of the competition engineering subframe connectors or the bolt-ins then weld those in?

I always thought the weld-in version of the competition engineering subframe connectos had to be used with their formed rear frame rails.

Let me know what you did, Thanks so much.
Click to expand...

bolt-in, then welded them up. They fit perty well, no alterations of the frame-rails or anything like that. All in an afternoon, + cpl of beers.
 

LMan

Founding Member
Aug 10, 2002
1,246
0
0
Mom's basement
Oct 11, 2005
#31
  • Oct 11, 2005
  • #31
DJCarbine said:
I am actually very interested in subframe connectors now, as they are pretty cheap to obtain, and I drive my car every day and would love some extra support....

Where would you take your car to get a set of these welded on? I have no garage or welder, so doing it myself is not an option.....
Click to expand...


local muffler shop. Its not heavy-gauge steel, so the welders that a muff shop has will do the trick
 
N

ncsutp

New Member
Oct 20, 2003
25
0
1
NC
Oct 12, 2005
#32
  • Oct 12, 2005
  • #32
quick question: will the global west subframes work with shelby under ride bars? and also, will the gw sbf limit the use of side pipes?
 

LMan

Founding Member
Aug 10, 2002
1,246
0
0
Mom's basement
Oct 13, 2005
#33
  • Oct 13, 2005
  • #33
all sfcs limit sidepipes to some extent, you will have to make some modifications to make it work.
 
R

RollinOut

New Member
Sep 18, 2006
10
0
0
Phoenix, AZ
Sep 26, 2006
#34
  • Sep 26, 2006
  • #34
Do nwhat you want

It seems to me that there is more concern about the "Originality" of Sub frame Con's and the percieved "devaluation" of someones prescious car. When actually, IMO, Sub frames Con's are all about bringing the old stangs up to par with todays technology, and the improved performance (racing or not) of adding the Subs.

If its YOUR car, build it for YOURSELF & do what you want. If youre so concerned about Originality & "Reversing" & "Ruining a good classic",, then, IMO, its really not YOUR car... it belongs to everyone out there who will look at it, and your just the one doing & paying for the work it takes to keep it running.

I ask you this... Has Mustang Monthly, Fast Fords, or any other national magazine asked to photograph your car for the cover? Do people SERIOUSLY ask to buy your car for $100,000 several times every day? Probably not, so... No one cares about your car. No one cares about MY cars... except me, so I build them the way I want so I can enjoy them. If you want a concourse trophy car, thats fine, but do yourself a favor & build a DRIVER with all the mods on it (Subs, R&P Steering, etc...) & dont looks back... just HAVE SOME FUN driving it!!

Im not trying to be a A$$... but I have been building Classic Cars & Bikes for many years & have seen over & over again the same situation, where someone is so woried about the "Originality" of their "Perfect" & prescious car that they miss out on the biggest & best part of having an old classic... DRIVING IT & enjoying it. So the paint gets a few chips, the windshield gets a few pits, etc... They are Fun To Drive!

So, Just as you upgrade Suspension, Brakes, HP in the motor... Rack & pinion Steering & subs are GREAT upgrades that are pretty much necessary when you do all the other stuff. True, they are not orininal... but neither is most everything else we do to them.

Consider this as well... Ford originaly bult these early mustangs as cheaply as possibly. They were cheap cars made to last a few years & be trashed. So, they were only built good enough to drive for a few years (which was actually pretty well built compared to todays paper thin compact cars). Its one of the reasons that Corvetts were so much more expensive then the Mustang... remember, Iacocca billed it as "The Sports Car For The Masses" because few could afford a Vette! But everyone could afford a cheap Mustang... it looked great, awesone style... poor performance & build... but so what,, they look cool... and are my personal FAVORITE car of all time (1967 to be specific!) Now, 30 years later, they are still around & in desperate need of upgrades. So if you wanna really enjoy your car, do it... it makes the car so much more fun (and safe) to drive... and thats really the whole point of EVERYTHING...

Personally, I put a Heidt Mustang II corssmember & Rack in the front, cut out the shock towers & add subs right off the bat on every 65-67 Mustang I have built, before any bodywork (providing its a good, straight body) If yopure familliar with that... its so far from original its rediculous... but it looks & performs like it should have been that way from the factory.

It really makes a WORLD of difference. Its great, and IMO, if Ford was interest in making the first Mustangs performers, they would not have just slapped some new body panals on a cheap Falcon, they would have put some engineering into them from the ground up & made them really perform... but then they would have been overpriced like the Vette & probably never have been the sucess they were. so why spend all the time & money restoring it to its original cheapness...

Well, back to the thread... Subs are really worth it, and by all means weld them in... its the only way to get them to work as they are supposed to. Bolt ins can shift & slide & actually cause damage.

Drive On!
 
B

brin0357

New Member
Jan 26, 2006
169
0
0
Sep 27, 2006
#35
  • Sep 27, 2006
  • #35
Build your own. I cut out the end of the frame rail and ran square tubing inside of it. I then went through my floor boards and into the other frame rail. It ties the subframe together and everything, and doesnt hang down like all the cheap ass ones.
 

mdjay

Premium Sponsor
Dec 9, 2003
896
0
16
Las Vegas, NV
Sep 27, 2006
#36
  • Sep 27, 2006
  • #36
holy resurection batman
 
T

truck90278

New Member
Jun 4, 2006
382
1
0
Redondo Beach, CA
Sep 27, 2006
#37
  • Sep 27, 2006
  • #37
RollinOut said:
It seems to me that there is more concern about the "Originality" of Sub frame Con's and the percieved "devaluation" of someones prescious car. When actually, IMO, Sub frames Con's are all about bringing the old stangs up to par with todays technology, and the improved performance (racing or not) of adding the Subs.

If its YOUR car, build it for YOURSELF & do what you want. If youre so concerned about Originality & "Reversing" & "Ruining a good classic",, then, IMO, its really not YOUR car... it belongs to everyone out there who will look at it, and your just the one doing & paying for the work it takes to keep it running.

I ask you this... Has Mustang Monthly, Fast Fords, or any other national magazine asked to photograph your car for the cover? Do people SERIOUSLY ask to buy your car for $100,000 several times every day? Probably not, so... No one cares about your car. No one cares about MY cars... except me, so I build them the way I want so I can enjoy them. If you want a concourse trophy car, thats fine, but do yourself a favor & build a DRIVER with all the mods on it (Subs, R&P Steering, etc...) & dont looks back... just HAVE SOME FUN driving it!!

Im not trying to be a A$$... but I have been building Classic Cars & Bikes for many years & have seen over & over again the same situation, where someone is so woried about the "Originality" of their "Perfect" & prescious car that they miss out on the biggest & best part of having an old classic... DRIVING IT & enjoying it. So the paint gets a few chips, the windshield gets a few pits, etc... They are Fun To Drive!

So, Just as you upgrade Suspension, Brakes, HP in the motor... Rack & pinion Steering & subs are GREAT upgrades that are pretty much necessary when you do all the other stuff. True, they are not orininal... but neither is most everything else we do to them.

Consider this as well... Ford originaly bult these early mustangs as cheaply as possibly. They were cheap cars made to last a few years & be trashed. So, they were only built good enough to drive for a few years (which was actually pretty well built compared to todays paper thin compact cars). Its one of the reasons that Corvetts were so much more expensive then the Mustang... remember, Iacocca billed it as "The Sports Car For The Masses" because few could afford a Vette! But everyone could afford a cheap Mustang... it looked great, awesone style... poor performance & build... but so what,, they look cool... and are my personal FAVORITE car of all time (1967 to be specific!) Now, 30 years later, they are still around & in desperate need of upgrades. So if you wanna really enjoy your car, do it... it makes the car so much more fun (and safe) to drive... and thats really the whole point of EVERYTHING...

Personally, I put a Heidt Mustang II corssmember & Rack in the front, cut out the shock towers & add subs right off the bat on every 65-67 Mustang I have built, before any bodywork (providing its a good, straight body) If yopure familliar with that... its so far from original its rediculous... but it looks & performs like it should have been that way from the factory.

It really makes a WORLD of difference. Its great, and IMO, if Ford was interest in making the first Mustangs performers, they would not have just slapped some new body panals on a cheap Falcon, they would have put some engineering into them from the ground up & made them really perform... but then they would have been overpriced like the Vette & probably never have been the sucess they were. so why spend all the time & money restoring it to its original cheapness...

Well, back to the thread... Subs are really worth it, and by all means weld them in... its the only way to get them to work as they are supposed to. Bolt ins can shift & slide & actually cause damage.

Drive On!
Click to expand...

I REALLY agree with you on all your points!! Build them the way you want!!:
 
M

MitchGT

Member
Apr 1, 2005
204
0
17
Sep 28, 2006
#38
  • Sep 28, 2006
  • #38
unless you own a very rare and expensive car, doing sensible modifications should only HELP the value of your car. If the modifications are ones that people would end up doing themselves once they buy the car from you, then it is worth more to them. I would rather have a modern drivetrain, a nice stereo, and modern wheels (and especially tires!), than buy a factory stock six cylinder secretary car. Put on some weld in subframe connectors and enjoy driving your car more!
 

Cannoball888

New Member
Dec 25, 2005
320
0
0
Gainesville, FL
Sep 28, 2006
#39
  • Sep 28, 2006
  • #39
xj220 said:
I went with the TCPs and they're great. They're the weld in kind and are a bit expensive, but the car is significantly stiffer and handles better.
Click to expand...
+1
Great fit and hug the floor pans closely.
 
J

jamison42166

Member
Jun 13, 2006
112
0
16
Sep 28, 2006
#40
  • Sep 28, 2006
  • #40
I have the TCP subframe connectors with X-frame assembly. the subframe connectors are welded in place and the X-frame bolts to the subframe with 4 bolts. I also have a driveshaft safety loop with it. I use the car strictly for the street, however i had a drive shaft break on an old car once and it destroyed the floor pan on it.

the subframe connectors alone are probably the most cost effective improvement you can do to improve the handling, chassis stiffness and ride quality of your vintage mustang.

the downside of adding the X-frame for me meant running a custom exhaust
but i went all out and added ceramic coated tri-ys, stainless steel tubing and stainless steel flowmaster 40s
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jamison42166/detail?.dir=9e20&.dnm=4cdcre2.jpg
 
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