Subframe Connector Questions

[Aaron]

Question - How much do subframe connectors stiffen the ride of my Mustang? I bought my car with subframe connectors already welded on, so I never got to drive the car with them off. Here's my problem...I live in Buffalo, NY and the streets here are TERRIBLE. It seems like I have to drive through an obstacle course just to get down the road because if I hit one of those damn potholes or other bumps, it feels like SOMETHING's gonna break. The car rides that stiff. Even little bumps seem like someone's hitting my car with a sledge hammer. I love the cornering my car does, but this is getting rediculous! How much difference do they really make?

 

[iwashmycar]

I do not have subframes, but every single bump I hit feels that way.

 

[custom89stang]

get new shocks/struts/quad shocks..... thats what i'm doing, got a full set of KYB's for 200$, getting them installed for 100$ on saturday

 

[Aaron]

get new shocks/struts/quad shocks..... thats what i'm doing, got a full set of KYB's for 200$, getting them installed for 100$ on saturday

Actually, I've already replaced the rear springs and shocks. I was debating on the front struts, but I'm not sure that is gonna help the problem. Man - if I were to lower the car, I could rip out the whole front suspension going over a dime!

 

[sheff2720]

my car feels like that without them too.. and im getting mine welded in on friday so ill let you know if it gets any worse

 

[Ranchero5.0]

Like the others say, the connectors don't stiffen the ride, just the car. You drive your car, not ride in it is the best description I can give. I agree about getting new shocks. The springs just hold the car off the ground and the stock springs are pretty soft. It's up to the sway bars and shocks to control the car.

Jamie

 

[ponyboy762]

Check the spring isolators, they can cause a racket if they're shot.

 

[ECU5.0]

Check the spring isolators, they can cause a racket if they're shot.

yep...mine are shot and it sounds like something is gonna fall off my car everytime i hit a bump. check all your bushing for that matter, they could all be shot

 

[ponyboy762]

If the car has ever been lowered, for looks or cornering purposes, it can cause a rough ride. If you want to play you gotta pay.

 

[Aaron]

Check the spring isolators, they can cause a racket if they're shot.

Thanks for all the info....I don't think it's the isolators - nothing really rattles - it just THUDS whenever I go over over any uneven pavement. Guess it's just the way it is though. The car isn't even lowered yet. It doesn't look bad at stock height though so I'll leave it alone.

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

I think you guys are missenterpreting what subs actually do, because of the word "stiffen". Subs arent going to cause your car to ride rough, not even if you put the sweetest set you can find and a 10 point roll cage in your car, it's still not going to cause your car to ride rough, it's your suspension and/or shocks and struts that are the problem. Subs only stiffen the car enough to prevent the unibody from flexing and twisting, so in all reality they're helping your suspension to be MORE efficient if anything. However, this plays as a double edge sword since if you've got an old wore out suspension, you're going to feel more bumps because the car now relies on the suspension to absorb the bumps instead of the whole car flexing and twisting. By flexing and twisting, your entire car sort of acts like a dampener when you hit a bump, and the shock is distributed throughout the entire car instead of on the wheel that's supposed to be obsorbing it through it's suspension.

Basically, if you get subs and find that you're hitting bumps harder, don't blame them, blame your suspension and get some stuff upgraded/replaced.

 

[ponyboy762]

I agree with 85 ss, the subframe connectors protect the car from twisting. Suspension upgrades that stiffen the actual springs is what causes a rough ride.

 

[Hugger1974]

I agree with 85 ss, the subframe connectors protect the car from twisting. Suspension upgrades that stiffen the actual springs is what causes a rough ride.

Agreed also, I wouls start with shocks and then go from there.

Does it have aftermarket control arms with solid bushings maybe? Just a thought....

 

[custom89stang]

yeah, basically what subs do is make your car so its NOT LIKE A PRETZEL, think i will get me a set of subs after my rims...and some stainless steel brake lines

 

[cevtv]

Thanks for all the info....I don't think it's the isolators - nothing really rattles - it just THUDS whenever I go over over any uneven pavement.

Could be ball joints............

 

[Aaron]

OK - I guess I'm gonna have to disagree with some of the posts here. I know that shocks and struts make up a lot of what absorbs bumps and potholes in the road, but I still think the frame of the car does as well. Cars are meant to flex to a certain degree in order to further absorb bumps and uneveness in the road. If they weren't meant to flex, subframe connectors would come factory...or the frame would be made much different than it is.
2nd. If my struts are worn, the car should bounce up and down when I press on the front of the car...right? The front end is solid as a rock. It doesn't bounce at all. My ball joints were replaced when I did my 5 lug conversion (Might as well while the front end was torn apart). Bushings look fine too.

 

[jwzg]

OK - I guess I'm gonna have to disagree with some of the posts here. I know that shocks and struts make up a lot of what absorbs bumps and potholes in the road, but I still think the frame of the car does as well. Cars are meant to flex to a certain degree in order to further absorb bumps and uneveness in the road. If they weren't meant to flex, subframe connectors would come factory...or the frame would be made much different than it is.
2nd. If my struts are worn, the car should bounce up and down when I press on the front of the car...right? The front end is solid as a rock. It doesn't bounce at all. My ball joints were replaced when I did my 5 lug conversion (Might as well while the front end was torn apart). Bushings look fine too.

I could be talking to a physics major here, but I'll explain this as best I can. You are much more likely to hear the results of hitting a bump in a car with a higher structural integrity (stiffer) than one of a lower integrity, given that the suspension is the same. You are much more likely to feel the bumps in the car with a lower integrity. This body integrity is measured in hertz (cycles per second). The lower the integrity, the lower the frequency and vice versa. The body motion will be quite low on the car with the higher structural integrity compared to the car of lower structural integrity. Since your car has a lot of plastic parts attached to a body with low structural integrity, you will have more rattles since these parts move around much more (not to mention they twist against each other to produce those annoying sounds from your console). You will not get that same effect if the car has a higher integrity provided by subframe connectors, even if the impact seems louder. Think about it another way, you don't get rattles from the tweeters in the dash no matter how many db they put out. That's because their frequncy in is extremely high. That big bass tube in the trunk can make body parts vibrate plenty. It has a much lower frequency. The same principle applies whether that frequency comes from hitting a speed bump or a speaker. Trust me, you will have fewer rattles with subframe connectors and the stiffer, the better. Hope this clears up the issue for you.

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Holy cow you guys are making this much more complicated than it should be. Subframes didnt come stock because the Mustangs (or at least the Foxes) are based off of cars that had tiny little 4 bangers in them and didnt have the need for any structural gigidity. Wasn't it the Fairmont i'm thinking of? Either way, if you remember the early '80s LTDs then you're on the right track, because they're structurally the same as our beloved Mustangs. Anyways, they didnt come with it because Ford would have had to redesign the whole platform, which they didnt do untill a year or so ago when they decided to build the '05 Mustang.

Cars are NOT built to flex "on purpose", especially performance cars. Our cars in particular flex because they're built on a crappy outdated platform.

Get yourself some new shocks/struts and springs and a nice pair of frame ties, and i guarantee you you'll have much less if not ZERO squeeks and rattles in ANY car, unless it's a rustbucket or a POS in the first place.

Either way, i was around to remember when these cars rolled off the lot, and i can tell you they didnt rattle and squeek when they were new. It's called Gettin Old, and they're far past it. Most stock Mustangs' suspensions are so well overdue for some replacement and/or upgrade that it's almost embarrassing.

 

[89CopCoupe]

 

[Aaron]

Wow - after the last 2 write ups...I guess I may as well keep quiet. The last items for me to replace are the struts, front springs, and quad shocks (although I know the quad shocks have nothing to do with how the car rides). I already replaced the back springs, shocks and replaced the lower control arm bushings when I did the 5 lug conversion. We'll see what happens.