Suspension
- Thread starter silver87
- Start date
it really depends on $. if you have the cash, Maim motorsports is the way to go. but, if you want a combo of traction and ride, then that gets a bit tricky.
you can try the KYB complete package that has the quads with it. that will ride better than stock and is only like $200ish. then add some good control arms to keep the power planted and then you have a nice mix. that is just my opinion. as far as shocks, FMS ones are nice because they dont lower it too much (and throw off the squat and launch geometery) and give it a nice agressive stance.
you can try the KYB complete package that has the quads with it. that will ride better than stock and is only like $200ish. then add some good control arms to keep the power planted and then you have a nice mix. that is just my opinion. as far as shocks, FMS ones are nice because they dont lower it too much (and throw off the squat and launch geometery) and give it a nice agressive stance.
DirtyD916
Active Member
if its just a daily driver and around 300 hp then you dont need a whole new front and rear suspension. Although its up to you a simple swapping of the stock springs, new struts and shocks, and some subframe connectors would do the job just fine. HOwever if its suspesion you want then try griggs or maximum motorsports. Most likely the two most exspensive and best quality made suspension out there right now for fox bodys.
Suspension Definitions
Important Definitions, and how they apply to the Mustang
In the coming months we will be putting a series of technical articles on the website to explain the fundamentals of suspension dynamics and ways to improve the handling of your Mustang. To help you get the most from these articles we have compiled a list of important terms you will need to know to fully understand your suspension.
Camber: The tilt of the tire relative to vertical. If the top of the tire leans inward (towards the engine) the car has Negative-Camber. If it leans outward, that is Positive-Camber. For more about adjusting camber, see Steeda Alignment Basics.
Caster: is the how far the contact patch of the tire follows behind the imaginary line where the steering axis of the wheel intersects the ground. (Think of the front wheel of a shopping cart, where the wheel follows behind the steering axis.) For more about adjusting caster, see Steeda Alignment Basics.
Toe: Toe-in or Toe-out describes the alignment of the front wheels relative to each other the same way you would describe your feet. Toe-in means they are closer together at the front than the rear. For more about toe, see Steeda Alignment Basics.
Bump-Steer: A change in toe caused by the suspension moving up or down. Bump-steer is built into the geometry of the suspension and steering system, and occurs independently of inputs from the steering wheel. The effect of bump-steer is for the wheel to toe-in or toe-out when the suspension moves up or down. This toe change, or "steering" occurs any time the suspension moves, whether it is from body roll, brake dive, or hitting a bump in the road. Bump steer is undesirable because the suspension is steering the car instead of the driver. Small amounts of bump-steer can be eliminated by installing offset rack-bushings. More severe bump steer problems require a "bump-steer kit" .
Roll Center: The point the body of the car rotates about when the car rolls in a turn. When the car rolls, the roll center is the center of the rotation. The roll center is not necessarily a physical point on the car, but rather is a theoretical point determined by the intersection of imaginary lines drawn through attachment points of the suspension, such as the control arm bushings, ball joints and tire contact patches. The front and rear suspension each have their own roll center.
Roll Axis: The line between the front & rear roll centers. In most cases you want this line to be parallel to the ground. In other words, you want the front and rear roll centers to be at or near the same height. If the roll axis is not parallel to the ground, body roll will create a yawing moment as the car tries to twist around the roll axis. Usually this can be felt as the car pitching forward or backwards and twisting as the car rolls.
For example, a typical lowered Mustang with otherwise stock suspension will have a rear roll center at 16 inches above the ground and a front roll center below ground level. As the car rolls, the weight will shift forward and sideways as the car rotates around the diagonal line between the low front roll center and the high rear roll center. The cure for this is to raise the front roll center with the X2 balljoint and lower the rear roll center with the 5-Link suspension. With these modifications the front and rear roll centers can be set at closer to the same height, creating a roll axis nearly parallel to the ground. With a level roll axis, the body can roll without twisting or pitching, keeping the forces on the tires more evenly distributed for better grip.
Spring Rate: The force necessary to compress a spring. Usually expressed in pounds-per-inch. For example 300 lb/in spring will compress 1 inch when 300 lbs are applied to it, 2 inches when 600 lbs are applied to it, etc.
Motion Ratio: The relative amount of motion that will occur at one point of a system as the result of moving another part of the system. Specifically for suspension design, the amount the spring seat will move as a result of the wheel moving. For example on the stock Mustang the spring is half way between the wheel and the control arm pivot, resulting in a motion ratio of 0.5. If the wheel moves up 1 inch the spring moves .5 times that amount, or ½ inch.
Wheel Rate: The "spring rate" at the wheel. This is the "real" spring rate of the vehicle, because this is what is actually acting upon the road, regardless of what the type of suspension system or springs are used. A car with a wheel rate of 100 lbs/in at all 4 wheels will sink 1 inch if 100 lbs is placed on over each wheel on the body of the car. To find the wheel rate you multiply the spring rate times the square of the motion ratio. For example on a stock suspension Mustang with a 450 lb/in spring the front wheel rate is 450 x 0.5squared, or 450 x (0.5 x 0.5), = 112.5 lb/in. Twisting bushings and binding of the suspension components will also alter the wheel rate, but if the suspension is designed properly their effects will be minimal relative to the effect of motion ratio and spring rate. Understanding wheel rate becomes critical when evaluating alternative suspension designs such as coil-overs vs. stock spring locations.
Roll-Steer: The effect of the rear axle "steering" to one side as a result of the car leaning over (rolling) in a corner. It is caused by the rear control arms pulling the axle backward and forward as they swing through their arc when the axle moves up or down. To minimize roll-steer on a Mustang, the lower rear control arms should be as close to level as possible.
Understeer: When the front tires lose traction before the back tires during a corner. More technically, understeer occurs when the slip angle of the front tires is greater than the slip angle of the rear tires. An understeering car will not turn as sharply as the driver intends. To compensate, the driver will have to turn the wheel sharper or slow down, or both. When pushed too far, understeering cars plow off the road straight-ahead.
Oversteer: When the back tires lose traction before the front tires during a corner. Also, when the slip angle of the rear tires is greater than the slip angle of the front tires. To compensate for oversteer the driver will have to reduce the steering angle (straighten out the wheels). Extreme cases of oversteer will require the driver to turn the wheel in the opposite direction to recover. When driven beyond their limit, oversteering cars tend to spin. A well know racer once quipped "Understeer means you hit the wall head first, oversteer means you hit the wall back-end first."
Loose: Oversteer
Push: Understeer
Load Transfer: When the load (weight) that is normally on one of the wheels is transferred to another wheel because of the effects of acceleration and inertia.
A car cornering on three wheels or a drag race car pulling a wheelie are extreme examples of load transfer. It is not necessary for the body of the car to move (roll, pitch) for weight transfer to occur. Even if the car is held perfectly flat by huge swaybars, the wheels on the outside of a corner will carry more load than the wheels on the inside. However, load transfer can be increased because weight has been physically moved, such as when the body of the car leans to one side. Load transfer can work for you, as in drag racing where you want the weight shifted to the rear wheels for traction, or it can work against you, as in road racing where you want to keep the weight more evenly distributed for better control in corners.
Lateral: Sideways. That is, left-to-right or right-to-left on the car.
Longitudinal: Front to back, in line with the "long way" of the car.
Bind: When the suspension movement is restricted by some undesirable conflict. Usually caused when the geometry of the system forces a part to move in a direction that is physically impossible unless something “gives,” such as using a bolt or pin where a balljoint is needed. (A pin only allows rotation in one plane. A balljoint allows full circular movement.)
Found on www.steeda.com
Important Definitions, and how they apply to the Mustang
In the coming months we will be putting a series of technical articles on the website to explain the fundamentals of suspension dynamics and ways to improve the handling of your Mustang. To help you get the most from these articles we have compiled a list of important terms you will need to know to fully understand your suspension.
Camber: The tilt of the tire relative to vertical. If the top of the tire leans inward (towards the engine) the car has Negative-Camber. If it leans outward, that is Positive-Camber. For more about adjusting camber, see Steeda Alignment Basics.
Caster: is the how far the contact patch of the tire follows behind the imaginary line where the steering axis of the wheel intersects the ground. (Think of the front wheel of a shopping cart, where the wheel follows behind the steering axis.) For more about adjusting caster, see Steeda Alignment Basics.
Toe: Toe-in or Toe-out describes the alignment of the front wheels relative to each other the same way you would describe your feet. Toe-in means they are closer together at the front than the rear. For more about toe, see Steeda Alignment Basics.
Bump-Steer: A change in toe caused by the suspension moving up or down. Bump-steer is built into the geometry of the suspension and steering system, and occurs independently of inputs from the steering wheel. The effect of bump-steer is for the wheel to toe-in or toe-out when the suspension moves up or down. This toe change, or "steering" occurs any time the suspension moves, whether it is from body roll, brake dive, or hitting a bump in the road. Bump steer is undesirable because the suspension is steering the car instead of the driver. Small amounts of bump-steer can be eliminated by installing offset rack-bushings. More severe bump steer problems require a "bump-steer kit" .
Roll Center: The point the body of the car rotates about when the car rolls in a turn. When the car rolls, the roll center is the center of the rotation. The roll center is not necessarily a physical point on the car, but rather is a theoretical point determined by the intersection of imaginary lines drawn through attachment points of the suspension, such as the control arm bushings, ball joints and tire contact patches. The front and rear suspension each have their own roll center.
Roll Axis: The line between the front & rear roll centers. In most cases you want this line to be parallel to the ground. In other words, you want the front and rear roll centers to be at or near the same height. If the roll axis is not parallel to the ground, body roll will create a yawing moment as the car tries to twist around the roll axis. Usually this can be felt as the car pitching forward or backwards and twisting as the car rolls.
For example, a typical lowered Mustang with otherwise stock suspension will have a rear roll center at 16 inches above the ground and a front roll center below ground level. As the car rolls, the weight will shift forward and sideways as the car rotates around the diagonal line between the low front roll center and the high rear roll center. The cure for this is to raise the front roll center with the X2 balljoint and lower the rear roll center with the 5-Link suspension. With these modifications the front and rear roll centers can be set at closer to the same height, creating a roll axis nearly parallel to the ground. With a level roll axis, the body can roll without twisting or pitching, keeping the forces on the tires more evenly distributed for better grip.
Spring Rate: The force necessary to compress a spring. Usually expressed in pounds-per-inch. For example 300 lb/in spring will compress 1 inch when 300 lbs are applied to it, 2 inches when 600 lbs are applied to it, etc.
Motion Ratio: The relative amount of motion that will occur at one point of a system as the result of moving another part of the system. Specifically for suspension design, the amount the spring seat will move as a result of the wheel moving. For example on the stock Mustang the spring is half way between the wheel and the control arm pivot, resulting in a motion ratio of 0.5. If the wheel moves up 1 inch the spring moves .5 times that amount, or ½ inch.
Wheel Rate: The "spring rate" at the wheel. This is the "real" spring rate of the vehicle, because this is what is actually acting upon the road, regardless of what the type of suspension system or springs are used. A car with a wheel rate of 100 lbs/in at all 4 wheels will sink 1 inch if 100 lbs is placed on over each wheel on the body of the car. To find the wheel rate you multiply the spring rate times the square of the motion ratio. For example on a stock suspension Mustang with a 450 lb/in spring the front wheel rate is 450 x 0.5squared, or 450 x (0.5 x 0.5), = 112.5 lb/in. Twisting bushings and binding of the suspension components will also alter the wheel rate, but if the suspension is designed properly their effects will be minimal relative to the effect of motion ratio and spring rate. Understanding wheel rate becomes critical when evaluating alternative suspension designs such as coil-overs vs. stock spring locations.
Roll-Steer: The effect of the rear axle "steering" to one side as a result of the car leaning over (rolling) in a corner. It is caused by the rear control arms pulling the axle backward and forward as they swing through their arc when the axle moves up or down. To minimize roll-steer on a Mustang, the lower rear control arms should be as close to level as possible.
Understeer: When the front tires lose traction before the back tires during a corner. More technically, understeer occurs when the slip angle of the front tires is greater than the slip angle of the rear tires. An understeering car will not turn as sharply as the driver intends. To compensate, the driver will have to turn the wheel sharper or slow down, or both. When pushed too far, understeering cars plow off the road straight-ahead.
Oversteer: When the back tires lose traction before the front tires during a corner. Also, when the slip angle of the rear tires is greater than the slip angle of the front tires. To compensate for oversteer the driver will have to reduce the steering angle (straighten out the wheels). Extreme cases of oversteer will require the driver to turn the wheel in the opposite direction to recover. When driven beyond their limit, oversteering cars tend to spin. A well know racer once quipped "Understeer means you hit the wall head first, oversteer means you hit the wall back-end first."
Loose: Oversteer
Push: Understeer
Load Transfer: When the load (weight) that is normally on one of the wheels is transferred to another wheel because of the effects of acceleration and inertia.
A car cornering on three wheels or a drag race car pulling a wheelie are extreme examples of load transfer. It is not necessary for the body of the car to move (roll, pitch) for weight transfer to occur. Even if the car is held perfectly flat by huge swaybars, the wheels on the outside of a corner will carry more load than the wheels on the inside. However, load transfer can be increased because weight has been physically moved, such as when the body of the car leans to one side. Load transfer can work for you, as in drag racing where you want the weight shifted to the rear wheels for traction, or it can work against you, as in road racing where you want to keep the weight more evenly distributed for better control in corners.
Lateral: Sideways. That is, left-to-right or right-to-left on the car.
Longitudinal: Front to back, in line with the "long way" of the car.
Bind: When the suspension movement is restricted by some undesirable conflict. Usually caused when the geometry of the system forces a part to move in a direction that is physically impossible unless something “gives,” such as using a bolt or pin where a balljoint is needed. (A pin only allows rotation in one plane. A balljoint allows full circular movement.)
Found on www.steeda.com
mattkimsey
I've compiled a list to recap this thread:
Well a whole new front end is going a little on the expensive side. I am looking at control arms, shocks and struts, and new spings. Does anyone have suggestions, I am kind of leaning towards Kenny Brown for the control arms, and possibly eibach springs. As for struts and shocks I need a little help. Would this be sufficient for the power I plan on having. Also would a new front end (tubular K-member and everything related) make it handle like a bmw, is it worth the money?
Thanks
Thanks
I'd think a tubular k-member wouldn't do much except save some weight and space. I have bilsteins struts and shocks on mine and love them with the Ford C springs. If you plan on using your car as a daily driver and dragging it you might want to look into tokico adjustables (though from your description of only 300 horsies it sounds more like a set and forget setup, in that case, I'd tag the bilsteins)
stangbear427
Active Member
I'm getting confused. What exactly do you want it to do? How much, exactly, are you willing to spend? At first it seemed as if you were looking for something to help you hook up and launch without loosening any fillings, on a budget. Now it's seems like you want to carve corners? The setup is night and day different, and while there are some great compromises if you spend enough, you still have to decide what is really more important to you in the end. If you want it to just hook, there are a plethora of options in all price ranges; and remember that there are some stupid fast cars out there on the dragstrip with relatively stock suspensions. Once you go saying "BMW", you are in a whole other ball park. Yes, it can be done- and then some. The single most important word is PACKAGE. Get it all from the same place, get it from someone with a reputation for eating up Germans like MM or Griggs, and get ready to spend. Been there, done that, never looked backsilver87 said:
I guess I need to do some research. I am not just looking to hook up. I just want something that would make the ride nicer and could help me hook up when I want it. I am not looking at staight drag suspension. I think that springs, struts, shocks and control arms is what I am looking at. Please let me know if anyone has any suggestions on what set up is ideal.
Thanks
Thanks
Check out this page from Griggs. You can have the car hook and still maintain a quality comfortable ride.
http://www.griggsracing.com/suspension.html
http://www.griggsracing.com/suspension.html
stangbear427
Active Member
That's a great page for terminology. While you're doing homework, check this one out, it's even better (animated pictures 
)
http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_suspension.htm
And since Griggs was plugged with a link, I have to throw this link out too for the sake of argument
http://maximummotorsports.com/packages-asp.asp
)http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_suspension.htm
And since Griggs was plugged with a link, I have to throw this link out too for the sake of argument
http://maximummotorsports.com/packages-asp.asp
