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Switched to E85

  • Thread starter Thread starter bhuff30
  • Start date Start date Mar 11, 2011
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bhuff30

Founding Member
Dec 11, 2001
6,037
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129
Olathe KS
Mar 11, 2011
#1
  • Mar 11, 2011
  • #1
I filled the tank of the 97 GT with E85 today. I had about 1/4 tank of 87 octane left and I topped it off with E85. At the same time, I turned the knob on my tweecer to a tune designed for about 50% ethanol (3/4 tank of winter blend E85 which is actually around E70). All I did was change the injector slopes and richen up the WOT fuel target a bit. The tweecer knob has 4 settings, so switching between blends will be no problem at all.

So far, so good. I will report back on gas mileage changes later on, but before the switch, I was averaging 21mpg (20mpg if I have lots of fun, 22mpg if I careful). To me, it feels like the engine runs a little smoother, especially at WOT. I had a pretty aggressive tune for 87 octane though, so I may have been getting a little inaudible detonation on the 87 octane.

In the past, I ran mixtures of up to 30% ethanol on the stock tune. In fact, about 3 years ago, I ran the whole summer on E30 and cleared up a knock problem I had (probably a dirty fuel injector that was cleaned by the E30). On that mixture, the long term fuel trims changed and I never got a CEL. The gas mileage didn't notibibly change and the WOT AF ratios were exactly the same running E30 and 87 octane, so the computer compensated perfectly. Now, I can run more ethanol using the tuner.

As for why I want to run E85: first, it is cheaper... we'll see if the fuel mileage decreases too much to break even or not. Second, for fun. I enjoy doing something different and learning along the way. Third, less dependence on oil. Yes, making ethanol from corn is just plain stupid, but with enough intrest, maybe we will use other existing methods (like sugar beets or sugar cane) and develop new methods which are even more efficient.
 

WLD_WST

Founding Member
Mar 2, 2001
620
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Philly
Mar 12, 2011
#2
  • Mar 12, 2011
  • #2
Good luck with it. There aren't too many places in Philly area carry E85 or I give it a try.
 

Maxpowers

Member
Sep 9, 2009
859
2
19
Pittsburgh, Pa
Mar 12, 2011
#3
  • Mar 12, 2011
  • #3
There are very few places around here that sell it.

What all did you change over in order to run the E85?
 

sneaky98gt

10 Year Member
Apr 23, 2008
2,387
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114
NC State University
Mar 12, 2011
#4
  • Mar 12, 2011
  • #4
If/when I get a 03/04 Cobra, I plan to go with a twin turbo/E-85 setup. Similar to 04sleeper, but with a turbo setup. There's a ton of power to be had with e-85 + boost.

Are you going to go e-85 with your '88?
 

midnightdriver

Active Member
Jan 3, 2010
443
2
27
Northern California
Mar 12, 2011
#5
  • Mar 12, 2011
  • #5
Did you have to change any of the fuel lines when switching? I heard E85 eats rubber like no other and causes problems in none rated fuel tanks.
 

S&B

I hate my CT. :(
10 Year Member
Dec 18, 2005
1,634
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204
Cheesehead
Mar 13, 2011
#6
  • Mar 13, 2011
  • #6
it eats O rings and will def cause problems after a year of straight use. The new cars that are dual fuel have synthetic based poly's
 

Ze_Stallion

New Member
Aug 14, 2009
0
0
0
Mar 13, 2011
#7
  • Mar 13, 2011
  • #7
My mom ran one tank of E85 in her 99 Neon and it ruined her fuel system in about 1 week. We had to go tow it to a repair shop and have them pull all the old rubber (o-rings, gaskets, hoses, etc.) and while it was in she elected to not have it upgraded.
I asked her why she did it because we all sat down to a local news special about the E85 ethanol and things you need to know about it. Basically I thought she came away from it knowing she couldn't put E85 in a regular tank but we were wrong.
She said, " I just saw the gas price and went right for that one (the e85)" and fallowed it up with "why should I pay more for the regular gas when I could get that one?"
 

bhuff30

Founding Member
Dec 11, 2001
6,037
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129
Olathe KS
Mar 14, 2011
#8
  • Mar 14, 2011
  • #8
I was a little slow getting back to my thread... but I'll try to reply everyone.

Maxpowers: The only thing I changed was the tune. If I had more modifications, then I would probably need to upgrade the injectors. If one had a forced induction setup making big power, then you would have to upgrade the fuel pump, lines and fuel rail sooner than you would on gas because of the increased fuel demand. Really nothing special, just increase the amount of fuel you can flow.

sneaky98gt: I've been running E85 on my 88 for more than 4 years now. It is soo much fun matching E85 with boost. In those 4 years, I haven't replaced any rubber seals in the fuel system or had any fuel system failures related to E85. Same ol' fuel pump, O-rings, regulator, injectors, ect ect.

S&B: E100 is much more corrosive and tends to eat rubber components. The 15% gasoline in E85 really helps to stabilize it.

Cars made since the mid 1980's were designed with the ability to use up to 10% ethanol in mind. That basically meant using seals that were ethanol compatible... so any car built after about 1985 will be fine with E85. Of course, you will need a re-tune and if you have a bunch of crud in the fuel tank, it will clog a few fuel filters. I never had a fuel filter problem though.

And that brings me to Ze_Stallion: I completely believe that your mom put E85 in the fuel tank and I completely believe it needed maintenance because of running poorly... however I don't believe for a moment that every rubber component in the fuel system had to be replaced because of damage. Either the mechanic is an idiot or he was looking for some extra income. The best solution would be to drain the fuel tank, replace the fuel filter and fill the car with regular gasoline again. Of course, that would be much cheaper and easier than replacing (or pretending to replace) every rubber component in the fuel system.

As for an update on my 97GT: I've driven almost 150 miles so far and no problems. I feel like there was a small gain in WOT power. There is theoretically a 5% gain, and I mostly notice it in the mid range.
 

Maxpowers

Member
Sep 9, 2009
859
2
19
Pittsburgh, Pa
Mar 14, 2011
#9
  • Mar 14, 2011
  • #9
bhuff30 said:
Maxpowers: The only thing I changed was the tune. If I had more modifications, then I would probably need to upgrade the injectors. If one had a forced induction setup making big power, then you would have to upgrade the fuel pump, lines and fuel rail sooner than you would on gas because of the increased fuel demand. Really nothing special, just increase the amount of fuel you can flow.
Click to expand...

I meant more in line with the other questions you already answered. I've heard horror stories with everything down to the fuel filter going to hell from how corrosive E85 is. Never first hand experience though.
 

N8Dogg98

15 Year Member
Apr 4, 2005
3,872
238
184
MN
Mar 14, 2011
#10
  • Mar 14, 2011
  • #10
I've got a pair of cams on order from MHS and after reading this I'm thinking about filling up on e85 right before I get my car dyno tuned.

Do any of you remember the name of that place that rebuilds fuel injectors? I know the pintel caps on my injectors are all cracked and worn out and I was thinking about just having mine rebuilt before my cam install...
 
J

jfor441

New Member
Mar 10, 2006
1
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Mar 14, 2011
#11
  • Mar 14, 2011
  • #11
Maxpowers said:
I meant more in line with the other questions you already answered. I've heard horror stories with everything down to the fuel filter going to hell from how corrosive E85 is. Never first hand experience though.
Click to expand...

The fuel filter gets clogged because the E85 is cleaning all the junk out of your gas tank. When you switch to E85, keep a good supply of fuel filters on hand cause you will be changing them out a lot for awhile.
 

WLD_WST

Founding Member
Mar 2, 2001
620
0
17
Philly
Mar 14, 2011
#12
  • Mar 14, 2011
  • #12
N8Dogg98 said:
Do any of you remember the name of that place that rebuilds fuel injectors? I know the pintel caps on my injectors are all cracked and worn out and I was thinking about just having mine rebuilt before my cam install...
Click to expand...



Stiegemeier Fuel Injector Services
 

bhuff30

Founding Member
Dec 11, 2001
6,037
35
129
Olathe KS
Mar 15, 2011
#13
  • Mar 15, 2011
  • #13
Just filled after the first tank of E85. I got 20mpg this tank, which is similar with my usual 20-22mpg. It might represent a 2-5% loss of mileage, but I wasn't easy on the car too. I'll just have to burn through a few more tanks to see a more accurate number.
 

04sleeper

Founding Member
Jun 22, 2002
2,674
14
89
Dallas, TX
Apr 5, 2011
#14
  • Apr 5, 2011
  • #14
Maxpowers said:
I meant more in line with the other questions you already answered. I've heard horror stories with everything down to the fuel filter going to hell from how corrosive E85 is. Never first hand experience though.
Click to expand...
The ones who have never tried it are always the experts.

jfor441 said:
The fuel filter gets clogged because the E85 is cleaning all the junk out of your gas tank. When you switch to E85, keep a good supply of fuel filters on hand cause you will be changing them out a lot for awhile.
Click to expand...
Another myth. I heard the same thing as well.

Here is my filter after 1.5 years running E85.
 

mazen189

Member
Jul 31, 2007
424
0
16
I.E. southern california
Apr 6, 2011
#15
  • Apr 6, 2011
  • #15
I have been seriously considering a change. Gas here is a little over 4 dollars for just regular. And yes, less foreign oil dependance is good.
 

bhuff30

Founding Member
Dec 11, 2001
6,037
35
129
Olathe KS
Apr 6, 2011
#16
  • Apr 6, 2011
  • #16
I completely encourage anyone to switch to E85. While we make it from corn, about the least efficient process available, it would encourage new research to develop other means of making ethanol. In Brazil, the primary fuel is ethanol and they make it very successfully and cheaply from sugar cane and sugar beats.
 
T

Tomtom9401

New Member
Oct 24, 2008
60
0
0
Apr 18, 2011
#17
  • Apr 18, 2011
  • #17
Interesting stuff man. I really want to change my car over to run ethanol. The thing that really caught my eye was thinking that i could potentially make this stuff myself. Although i will need a permit, if the price to make it is cheaper than driving 30 miles to the closest e85 gas station it would be cool. I was just thinking i could make 100% ethanol or w/e and portion it out into my gas tank with a mixture of about 30% ethanol to gasoline. You're saying that the stock tune is capable of running this 30% mixture? I have an 04 GT. I read that generally running ethanol gives you a 20-30% mpg decrease at most. So if can make the stuff for cheaper than 20% of 4.00 a gallon i could be saving money .... I think. Brain hurt math in progress ouch. lol
 
I

ItsStock02

Member
Aug 18, 2008
492
4
19
Westland, MI
Apr 18, 2011
#18
  • Apr 18, 2011
  • #18
Where did you get your e85 tune from?
 

bhuff30

Founding Member
Dec 11, 2001
6,037
35
129
Olathe KS
Apr 18, 2011
#19
  • Apr 18, 2011
  • #19
I bought a TwEECer, so I am tuning on my own.

ItsStock02 said:
Where did you get your e85 tune from?
Click to expand...
 
I

ItsStock02

Member
Aug 18, 2008
492
4
19
Westland, MI
Apr 18, 2011
#20
  • Apr 18, 2011
  • #20
Im hoping to switch to e85 soon. I messaged Alternative Auto and another shop on my local forum seeing if they do anything with e85, just waiting on replies.
 
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