T&L or TandL engines experience? - crate engines w/warranty?

[70vert]

Hey guys,
From some recommendations on a related post, I came across TandL engines:

http://www.tandlengines.com/index.html

GREAT pricing, 12mo/12,000mi warranty, AND they are an approved Mass-Flo EFI installer. I'm looking specifically at this engine, but with a mass-flo EFI, and without the alt - they can do custom options, and hopefully I can get a lower compression, 408 motor out of them:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-427-Aluminum-Block-Crate-Engine-by-NASCAR-Shop_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQihZ019QQitemZ290136689997QQtcZphoto
this is not in the cards this summer, or maybe even this winter, but it would be good to know if these guys have a good rep, 'cause they would be the number one choice by far if so.
Just sent 'em an email for a quote on what I'm looking for with the Mass-Flo and a 408 low-compression. I'll let you know what they come up with!

 

[jcode68]

I don't know of them, but they have some pretty damn good prices for their standard spec strokers. A few things most guys would do though are AFR heads and have them upgrade their "Ram Air type" intake to the real deal. I would definately get references from multiple folks before a purchase though.

 

[dbfarr]

That's it, my next engine block gon' be silver!!!

 

[mattrod70]

id be curious what forged pistons cost, but dayum thats cheap

matt

 

[70vert]

Handful of links about T&L Engines - good reads here!

I cross-posted this over to Vintage-Mustang forums, and got an amazing list of references from other forums by "mustngjoe":

IRC, Vizard made favorable comments about them in PHR some time ago.

Also:

http://www.fordmuscle.com/forums/stroker-engines/458358-t-l-engines-n-c.html

http://www.mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/016270.html

http://www.gearheadtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5014

http://www.ffcobra.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=44;t=000041;p=0

and one bad one from over a year ago in this post:

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/showtopic.php?tid/1432639/hl/jay/tp/0/all/1/

but the bad experience is pretty bad, and from a highly respected guy on that forum. Still a contender . . . .

 

[electricgreen]

Ok, I was going to wait until we actually got the engine to reply to this so I could give more info about the whole experiance, but-

We ordered a 347 stroker from them over a month ago. We told them at the time we had a time deadline, and we were told it wouldn't be a problem (car needed to be driving by week of 8/13). This was noted on emails as well as phone calls, never once were we told there would be a problem with this timeline. As of last Monday, we had nothing. My Dh called them, was told it should be done and ready to ship late last week/early this week, but to call back Thursday to verify. He called thursday and got a message saying the office was closed thurs & friday, but they would return calls, so he left a voicemail. Nothing. Called yesterday-same message about being closed thurs & friday, left another message. Nothing. Called today-new message that the office is closed all week, they are short staffed. Left ANOTHER message.

At this point, I would tell you to look elsewhere, as in my opinion, if this is their idea of customer service BEFORE you get the motor, what's saying they would actually stand behind the warrantee. All I can say is hope we actually get our motor within a decent amount of time and it runs well, but I wouldn't recommend them to anyone anymore. Not after this crap. We do know people that live in that area, if this doesn't get resolved soon I might ask one of them to go over there and raise some cain.

 

[70vert]

I know their delivery times are all over the place

and I thought that they were pretty up front with that - they say that timeliness isn't their strong suit. I'm surprised that someone there promised you a specific deadline - they really shouldn't have. I'm not on any specific timetable, and this probably won't even be this year. I'm willing to be patient for a lower price with decent quality and a warranty . . . sorry to hear about your experience, though. Sounds like a classic case of overpromise/underdeliver.

 

[electricgreen]

I see the point on the timeline, however their lack of response to messages is even more concerning to me. Especially when we were told to call back thursday, only to get a message they were closed. While it's possible it was not planned, it seems VERY suspicious that we were told to call back that day. It appears like they were telling us to call back on a day they knew no one would answer the phone. Which makes me wonder about how they handle other situations that are not favorable to them (ie, warrantee claims). I work in customer service (I'm a supervisor for a national company's CS department) and would not tolerate this from a rep here. Granted this is a much smaller business, but they have even more to lose than a large one by providing inferior service. When it comes to large sums of money, including a deposit that has to go paypal (remember, paypal is a third party-you can't contest a CC charge by them, as THEY provided the service as promised), I expect a certain level of responsiveness. They were great before we ordered the motor. Helpful, friendly, answering questions-the issues with getting replies and a ship time all begain AFTER they got the deposit.

It's up to you to deal with them, I am just warning of what we have run into so far. Of all the comments I have read, I haven't heard from anyone with a warrantee issue (granted, that IS a good thing!), but it really raises questions in my mind. Either way, they have really lost a lot of respect in my mind.

 

[SoCalCruising]

They were probably out racing or supporting a team.

 

[70vert]

I hear both points - summer is racing season w/small companies

I am seeing the same issue with Evolution Motorsports and my rear suspension. Many of these companies are cottage industries or just one step above. Customer service should be better, or at least consistent in what they promise and what they deliver, but especially during racing season, these things can happen. Small businesses should have required customer service courses, though - I get the same thing with contractors.

 

[electricgreen]

Ok, I got the skinny. The office assistant is adopting, so she's in and out. I managed to get the invoice and pay the rest by paypal, but now I'm back to phone tag to get a ship date and BOL #. Aside from the deadline, I need to borrow a truck to go pick it up from the HUB (we have a Bronco, but we're afraid to take the cap off-we bought it cheap, and after looking at it someone did a hackjob quarter replacement and I'm afraid it wouldn't go back on if we took it off!), so I need to let the guy we're borrowing it from when we need it, because we'll have to swap cars in the AM since he works past when the hub would be closed. On the upside, the tranny that went MIA (love UPS) was replaced w/no arguement from that company and showed up via Yellow as promised. Waiting on the torque converter (should be here Monday) and a new shifter (should be here Tuesday).

 

[70vert]

cool, sounds like things are coming together

on the bronc, is the crate bigger than the opening for your cap, or you just can't figure out how to get it in there? I wonder if a ramp and winch system would do it or that's just asking for trouble.

I was planning on shipping it to the shop that's going to install it. Is UPS the only shipping option, and they don't deliver it to the final destination? Maybe it is different for business vs. residence. Any way to rent a truck from UHaul? I have to admit I haven't figured out the final mile logistics myself, assuming delivery to business would be an option.

What about a trailer? You could UHaul a small flatbed trailer and load the crate on that . . .

 

[electricgreen]

It would fit, but once we got it home I don't believe there would be room to get the cherry picker in above the motor to get it out (with the cap on).

Truck freight is the only option. Home delivery is more expensive, you have to home to meet the truck, and then there's the lift gate issue. If it's going to a shop, you might still need to pay a liftgate fee, but the rest of it should be a non-issue for you. We are doing our own install, so it needs to come to our house-residential area, needs smaller truck, etc etc-and I need at least 2 weeks notice to take a day off work-that's just not possible the way they do things, and you can never guarantee anything with a trucking company anyway. We're just going to pick it up at the freight hub.

 

[68EFIvert]

I sometimes rent a truck from Home Depot. 75 minutes for like $20. No problem with a fork lift but the bed may be a little high for a cherry picker.

 

[electricgreen]

Still waiting on a cb for on the motor's ship date. They were "closed for vacation Thurs-Mon", but their voicemail still says they are closed "thurs 8/2-Mon 8/6, reopening Tues 8/7". It's Tuesdays, 8/7, right? ARG! I can't even get a call back on the weight of the flexplate they recommend-need to know if we can use the one from our 68 motor or not. I assume so, but we all know what happens when someone does that-and if I can't, I need to know so I can order one asap. double ARG!

 

[4MuscleMachines]

I saw one of their most expensive engines on eBay and asked a few simple questions such as if the engine is in stock and could they swap the cam. I was seriously interested and ready to buy but they never answered even after three emails. They have good feedback on eBay but to me that was a big red flag.

Let us know how it all turns out.

 

[electricgreen]

Well, no call back yesterday. I had been give the owner's cell phone number, so my hubby tried calling him when he got out of work-and got his voicemail. No return call from him either (I left my voicemail around 11:30 at the shop, so they had at least a half day to call back. My husband called the cell around 4:30).

I think my husband also found them via Ebay. I usually do the parts hunting, but I left the drivetrain up to him, so he could decide exactly what he wants (torque, hp, etc). This is the last part we are waiting on-and the first one we ordered, by at least a month. The tranny was built for us by a company that does race trannys, that took almost no time in comparison-a friend was going to pick it up from them at a race, they brought the wrong one so they shipped the right one with no shipping fees. That company custom builds, attends races every weekend, and still managed to answer their phone, return calls and get us the item on time.

I think t and l needs serious help in running a business. Everyone we spoke to ws nice enough, but nice isn't the only thing they need to be! They need to return calls, and if they say they will do something, they need to do it. I understand why they use paypal, it's cheaper than having a CC machine, plus they don't have the liablity of having card numbers at their location. BUT, it takes a few days for a large paypal payment to post to a CC from what I can tell (authorization vs actually being charged). What they *should* do, is a few days before the motor is done, send the payment request. So once it's posted, the motors done and can ship right away, instead of waiting a few days after. It doesn't do anyone any good sitting around. And they still need to learn to use a phone.

I'll let everyone know what happens today-since if it didn't leave yesterday, there's a chance we won't get it in time. And if doesn't leave today the chance is about 99% we won't. Unless they ship guaranteed delivery at their cost (I'm not paying because they took a vacation before shipping my COMPLETED motor!). Alos, if they didn't ship it and it comes when we are on vacation, then they are paying the week's worth of storage fees, since it's their own fault. At this point, it's looking like they cost us meeting our deadline and taking my car to the dream cruise for the 5th year, instead of the car we've been working every day and night on for moths to have ready. If it's not here in time, I will guarantee one thing-I will make it my mission to make sure as many people as possible know about it. (can you tell I'm pissed? dont' piss off a New York chick, especially one that's of Irish & German descent)

 

[electricgreen]

son-of-a-b, they are supposedly shipping it today. And no, they didn't call back-we called them AGAIN. Good thing my husband called, not me, I am not in the mood for any moronic bs stories. It BETTER be here Friday, or I don't care if we have to drive to Charlotte and they give us another motor, we ARE getting this f'n thing. CUSSS ITTTT!!

 

[DK832]

son-of-a-b, they are supposedly shipping it today. And no, they didn't call back-we called them AGAIN. Good thing my husband called, not me, I am not in the mood for any moronic bs stories. It BETTER be here Friday, or I don't care if we have to drive to Charlotte and they give us another motor, we ARE getting this f'n thing. CUSSS ITTTT!!

A good friend of mine just recieved his stroker from them. VERY nice motor at the right price. BUT 3 months over time, probably called them 200 times to check/speed progress. Very competent builders but they do need to run their business more professionally in order not to drown in their own success.

 

[mtbdoc]

Wow...this sounds too much like my experience w/ McAllister Brothers (which is really primarily one guy; his brothers are a small, part-time help). Chris was great up front, getting my $ for the blown 408...and then excuse after excuse after excuse. I cancelled the order, and then he said he'd get it out and refund $2000. Well, I didn't get everything promised (like the MSD ignition box; setup instructions, etc) NOR the $2k he promised. My CC company pulled the $2k back, but not the $$ for the ignition. Still don't return phone calls. No sense of responsibility. Very sad. Stupid of me as well.

Everytime I see one of these deals (and I've looked at the T&L before) I really want to believe it. But it just looks like THEFT waiting to happen. When the CC company says "it was too long ago" because the builder dragged their feet, you just suck it up.

Actually, I am convinced that God is helping me to see how absurd all of my preoccupation and $$ on my cars has been. Kind of hard to argue with, actually...