T-LOK Rebuild ... Help!

PULMEOVR · Oct 1, 2009

Hi Guys,

The rear of my car is making a rubbing/grinding noise from the rear while turning and it's getting quite bad. It was stupid of me to leave it this long (a couple months) without doing anything about it.

Anyways, about 1 year ago, I had a flat tire on the driver side rear. I installed the factory spare and drove around like that for a week because I had new tires on order coming from the US. I think the shorter diameter of the spare compared to the full-size regular tire on the other side, messed up the clutches etc. in the differential. Does this sound plausible?

Now, I'm looking at a rebuild kit for the differential. I see two types. One with regular clutches (I suppose) and the other with carbon fibre clutches. Does anyone know what the difference is? Which should I get? Is there anything else I will need, besides fluid & friction modifier?

Here are links to both:

Regular: Ford Racing 8.8 RING & PINION INSTALLATION KIT M-4210-C - Steeda.ca

Carbon Fibre: Ford Racing 8.8 Carbon Fibre Rebuild Kit M-4700-C - Steeda.ca

Will both of these kits work? I know the regular one is an "installation kit" for new gears, but I assume this will be fine.

Also, what fluid would you recommend for the diff? I'm leaning towards Amsoil.

Thanks and sorry for the long post!

Matt

squeak93 · Oct 2, 2009

You don't need the install kit, simply order a clutch pak and install it. No need to reshim the entire diff, only the spider gears clutch pak gets re shimmed b/c of the new clutches.

I've only used the regular clutches but we have installed some carbon fiber ones in a few buddies... With stockish type power, you will likely never know a difference.

40oz · Oct 2, 2009

squeak93 said:
I've only used the regular clutches but we have installed some carbon fiber ones in a few buddies... With stockish type power, you will likely never know a difference.

a difference from what? Are they supposed to last longer, or be quieter, or smoother, or faster-acting? What exactly is the difference that won't be noticed?

I did pretty much exactly the same thing as the OP, but mine only makes noise when turning after it gets hot, i.e. after an hour or so highway driving. Totally fine driving around town. Had the dealer replace the fluid a couple months ago, and that had no effect. Basically it's not what I'd call a problem for me, but it will get rebuilt this winter.

squeak93 · Oct 2, 2009

The stock trac loc will take you DEEP into the 11's. For a stock car/bolt on car, the extra money spent on the carbon fiber clutch pak will likely not net any better traction or less slip.

The stocker is very quiet and works like a charm.

wmburns · Oct 2, 2009

+1 on everything sqeak93 said. Unless you are familiar with diff work, you may be suprised at what it really takes to perform a complete rebuild. Lots of guys do it. But it is a difficult job for the unprepared.

Save yourself a bunch of time/money/headach and rebuild the just the clutch pack with stock parts (assuming the rest of the diff in good shape). For a daily driver, it will do the job.

As for a challenge, if you have never done diff work yourself before, IMO, you may find the cluth pack install to be a managable starting point without getting in over your head.

Do not attempt this job if you do not have a torque wrench. It is important to torque all diff nuts/bolts to the recommended values. Also, follow the directions regarding how long to soak the parts in friction modifier before installation.

40oz · Oct 2, 2009

nobody uses a limited slip to get "into the 11's."

A limited slip is used for daily driving and tracking, not dragging. So then the question is simply whether the $40 extra for the carbon clutch disks (in the rebuild kit) buys longevity or not. It's not a lot of money, so if the carbon clutches will last longer, it's not a bad way to go.

It's not an issue of power at all. Obviously someone who can't conceive of getting on the gas while turning a corner won't put much wear on their limited slip regardless of power ouput, but some people regularly apply heavy throttle while going around corners. And that kind of thing is what puts wear on an LSD because that's when an LSD is designed to engage.

squeak93 · Oct 2, 2009

40oz said:
nobody uses a limited slip to get "into the 11's."

A limited slip is used for daily driving and tracking, not dragging. So then the question is simply whether the $40 extra for the carbon clutch disks buys longevity or not. It's not a lot of money, so if the carbon clutches will last longer, it's not a bad way to go.

Are you dumb or stupid? Really, TONS OF PEOPLE HAVE AND CONTINUE TO USE THE STOCK STYLE TRACTION LOCK TO RUN VERY FAST.

The carbon fiber clutch packs have not been out all that long. Your not going to find a many who have put the 120k miles or so that a stocker usually lasted (i've seen some go up to 180k)

And people wonder why old timers with factual knowledge are leaving....

40oz · Oct 2, 2009

squeak93 said:
Are you dumb or stupid? Really, TONS OF PEOPLE HAVE AND CONTINUE TO USE THE STOCK STYLE TRACTION LOCK TO RUN VERY FAST.

The carbon fiber clutch packs have not been out all that long. Your not going to find a many who have put the 120k miles or so that a stocker usually lasted (i've seen some go up to 180k)

And people wonder why old timers with factual knowledge are leaving....

Before we start calling people dumb or stupid, think about what I wrote and how you responded.

I don't think anyone suggested people weren't running the stock LSD in their cars for drag racing. The question which has still *not* been answered is "What is the advantage of the carbon clutch disks?"

Are you dumb or stupid? ...And people wonder why old timers with factual knowledge are leaving...

See "irony." I think you answered your own question

stangGT97 · Oct 2, 2009

Yet another thread that turns into a flamefest.

To the OP - I just had the carbon fiber discs installed on my 98GT, so let me warn you: the bite is more aggressive than the stock style. I used Royal Purple diff fluid that has friction modifier already in it, but the T-lok would still bind around corners. I had to use additional friction modifier to stop the binding. With that aside, I'd imagine the drivability should be similar between the two, so why not opt for the CF discs?

squeak93 · Oct 2, 2009

I'll bow out as it seems there are other bright and upcoming magazine readers to give technical info on a product they've never used...

Thanks stanggt97 for your actual input on something you have installed in your own vehicle. I guess the two I've helped install that felt just like stockers mean nothing. :roll:

PULMEOVR · Oct 2, 2009

Alright thanks everyone for the advice and opinions. Yes, the noise only happens when the diff & diff fluid get hot from driving atleast 20 mins.

What do you mean by just getting the clutch packs? Where can I buy just the clutch packs? And I'm worried if this will totally solve my problem. It's making so much noise that I wonder if a rebuild and fluid change will do it, or if I've caused permanent damage.

So most people go with Royal Purple oil for the diff? Not a big fan of Royal Purple to be honest, but I'll research it some more.

Thanks guys ... keep the advice coming!

40oz · Oct 2, 2009

For what it's worth, I did exactly the same thing as you (drove for a week until my tires came in) and my dealer tech was quite positive the rebuild would fix the problem. I just had him change the fluid because it's not a huge issue for me right now. Changing the fluid did pretty much nothing for me.

standard:
Ford Racing Performance Parts []

with carbon disks:
Ford Racing Performance Parts []

In my experience, some of the recommended Ford dealers listed on the FordRacingParts.com site can give you a better deal than the listed price.

And a how-to:
CPA5OHtech - Page: 18 of 27

And another how-to:
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/m5lp_0705_traction_lok_differential_rebuild/index.html

Good luck

trinity_gt · Oct 2, 2009

Four years ago I asked here about the notion of using the F-150 8.8" S-spring (F3TZ-4214-A) in place of the standard Mustang spring (E0AZ-4214-A) and got one reply. The F-150 spring supposedly gives stronger torque bias and is plug and play in the Mustang's 8.8. The only downside might be that the car would be "livelier" in the wet and you might see some chatter around corners. I don't know if that's true if the correct friction modifier is used but it might be worth looking at that and using OE plates to stiffen up the limited slip a bit.

wmburns · Oct 3, 2009

PULMEOVR,

From your questions I am not sure that you understand the difference between a differential rebuild kit and T-LOK rebuild kit.

The first link in the original post is for a differential rebuild kit including all bearing and seals. It does not include the T-LOK clutch packs.

The 2nd link is for the T-LOK clutch packs ONLY.

Therefore, for a total rebuild of the entire differential, then BOTH kits will be needed. Similarly, the T-LOK can be replaced with out rebuilding the rest of the differential.

It is completely reasonable that driving with a compact spare tire has ruined the T-LOK clutches. So unless your rear end made noise before, then just a T-LOK kit will get you back in business.

With regards to stock T-LOK clutches or carbon fiber clutches, IMO if the answers are YES to any of the following questions:

1 do you drift?
2 do you make more than 400 horse power?
3 will having carbon fiber anything give you a bigger E-penis?

If the answer is yes to any of the above questions, then you should consider upgraded T-LOK clutches.

What follows is my opinion.

A T-LOK rebuild is something good shade tree mechanic can do at home.

A full differential bearing rebuild is much harder. An inexperienced hobbyist should carefully consider the high difficultly level as well has the cost of specialize tools the job will require.

Note, I am not trying to say that you can’t do it. Guys do it all the time. Just understand what you are getting into.

Again, assuming that that rear end was fine before the spare tire thing (and this is not a supper high mileage car), if it were my car, I would rebuild just the T-LOK clutches and call it a day. The carbon fiber thing is all up to you and how you drive.

Good look.

fast97gt · Oct 3, 2009

Ooh ooh me me, I do have a good friend with a 89 fox convert with a 91mm turbo maken 932 at the wheels on 93octane, and he's runnin the a t-lock with the carbon discs for the cobra, and has run 10.20s in the 1/4, so I do know that the carbon discs hold more power and last longer in a pretty much stock car
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urban96 · Oct 3, 2009

dont forget friction modifier

tonytaylor85 · Oct 3, 2009

I got the carbon fiber clutches because i only got 60k miles out of the stockers and i autocross when i can. In the rain I can steer with my right foot, on purpose or otherwise. I can't make a direct comparison as far as the streetability of one over the other since it was a long time ago but when it's dry out, i love them.

PULMEOVR · Oct 4, 2009

wmburns said:
PULMEOVR,

From your questions I am not sure that you understand the difference between a differential rebuild kit and T-LOK rebuild kit.

The first link in the original post is for a differential rebuild kit including all bearing and seals. It does not include the T-LOK clutch packs.

The 2nd link is for the T-LOK clutch packs ONLY.

Therefore, for a total rebuild of the entire differential, then BOTH kits will be needed. Similarly, the T-LOK can be replaced with out rebuilding the rest of the differential.

It is completely reasonable that driving with a compact spare tire has ruined the T-LOK clutches. So unless your rear end made noise before, then just a T-LOK kit will get you back in business.

With regards to stock T-LOK clutches or carbon fiber clutches, IMO if the answers are YES to any of the following questions:

1 do you drift?
2 do you make more than 400 horse power?
3 will having carbon fiber anything give you a bigger E-penis?

If the answer is yes to any of the above questions, then you should consider upgraded T-LOK clutches.

What follows is my opinion.

A T-LOK rebuild is something good shade tree mechanic can do at home.

A full differential bearing rebuild is much harder. An inexperienced hobbyist should carefully consider the high difficultly level as well has the cost of specialize tools the job will require.

Note, I am not trying to say that you can’t do it. Guys do it all the time. Just understand what you are getting into.

Again, assuming that that rear end was fine before the spare tire thing (and this is not a supper high mileage car), if it were my car, I would rebuild just the T-LOK clutches and call it a day. The carbon fiber thing is all up to you and how you drive.

Good look.

Hi Burns,

You're right - I didn't understand the difference between a diff and a T-LOK rebuild kit. I do now though, so thanks for explaining it.

To answer the questions; I am fairly easy on the car. It has 47,500 miles on it. I don't drift, but do slide out on some corners occasionally. I am definitely under 400 hp, and carbon fiber doesn't appeal to me unless the performance gain is there.

I don't trust myself to rebuild the T-LOK properly, so I'll get the dealership to do it. So, looks like it's decided - a T-LOK rebuild it is!

Thanks so much

tonytaylor85 · Oct 4, 2009

So you don't actually need a bigger E-Penis. There are 6 clutches with carbon fiber on each side. 12 pieces of carbon fiber x 0.5 inches per piece means you can double your E-Penis for an extra $40.

stangGT97 · Oct 4, 2009

PULMEOVR said:
So most people go with Royal Purple oil for the diff? Not a big fan of Royal Purple to be honest, but I'll research it some more.

Not sure what most people do when it comes to gear oil. The only reason I used Royal Purple is because it was part of the 4.10 gear kit I bought, otherwise I probably would have used Amsoil or just Motorcraft.

T-LOK Rebuild ... Help!

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