T5 Conversion Report

[The Dan]

Thought I would share my latest project and dispell maybe a few myths I heard along the way regarding the parts I chose for my swap.

My parts list:
New T5Z Trans from Jegs, stock 65 looking shifter
New late model bellhousing, block plate, shift fork
Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel
Ford Racing King Cobra Clutch w/ throwout bearing
JME Hydraulic Clutch
Existing starter
Modern Driveline trans. mount

This conversion is not real difficult to do, but I found it a little rough going only because I did it by myself, and on my back. Would be much easier with two people and a lift. All in all this is the best/most fun thing I have done to the car. I ran it pretty hard this past weekend for the first time since finishing it, and it is very nice to roll down the freeway at 85mph and only turn 2K rpm.

Here are some of MY findings with the setup I chose.

1. Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel: I had read that the aluminum flywheel would require higher revs to get the car off the line. IF this is true, I'm really not noticing it. It seems to me that it leaves just fine. What I do notice is that the car revs very quickly. I think that is the most notable benefit of the aluminum flywheel. So, to me, the higher revs to get of the line myth...BUSTED. Quicker revs and getting up to higher rpm's faster than a steel flywheel, true, very true. These can be had on E bay for $265, awesome price for a beautiful piece.

2. King Cobra Clutch: I had read A LOT about cluthcs before buying one. This clutch had mixed reviews, but for the price...I had to try it. Some had said that it was too stiff, and that it didn't hold, while others said that it wasn't overly stiff and held all they could throw at it. Well, I don't have hundreds of miles on it yet, but it took everything my well built 306 had, and before I batted an eyelash I was well over 120 mph on an early Sunday morning barren freeway. I think it is definitely stiffer than a stock clutch, but it needs to be for the clamping force it offers. For the money, I don't think you can go wrong with this clutch. Fortunatly, and perhaps it is due to the hydraulic clutch, I have had no issues of clutch chatter either.

3. JME Hydraulic Clutch: I debated for about 3 weeks between hydraulic and cable clutch. There are many pro's and con's for each. I deceided on the hydraulic for the reason that a) It is easier to route with headers b) It offers an easier pedal, nice for a stiffer performance clutch c) Visually appealing, looks much nicer with the braded steel line going to the slave cylider as opposed to a big ole clutch cable winding through the engine bay. I read many nightmare stories regarding bleeding these things. Let me say, I have NO idea what the issues are. If you have ANY knowledge of bleeding a hydraulic system, than you can do this. I had it bled in literally 5 mins with my GF's help pumping the pedal for me. I also heard that a hydraulic clutch is too light of a feel. Well, everyone's opinion will vary, but I do not find it too easy. I get a lot of feedback through the pedal and it is very predictable where the clutch comes in and out relative to the pedal travel. When you break it down it is only $150 more to go hydraulic, and I feel the pro's of it out weigh the con's, and it is worth every penny. The hardest part for me was mounting the master cylinder due to the tight quarters under the dash. So, to recap, I found it is NOT hard to bleed and it is NOT too light of a pedal, unless maybe it is used with a stock clutch.

4. T5Z: This should be at the very top of your mod list. It has an overdrive...what else needs to be said. This really is a bolt in mod. Run it with the later bellhousing, and it just does not get any easier. For me it would have been nice to have a helping hand when putting it in, but I managed. I did have to get my drive shaft shortened 1 inch, but that only cost $85 and included a rebalance. Going from a C4, 3 gear auto, to a 5 gear manual has made a huge difference in the car.

Some things I did and didn't expect from the mod: The car idles a lot smoother, it runs cooler, and it is faster.

I also put new headers and exhaust on the car. If you do this, your exhaust guy will appreciate the Modern Driveline trans. mount, as it offers the greatest clearance for exhaust.

I'm very pleased with the results and if any of you deceide to go for it and need and questions answered I'm here to help. Having actually done it my self and reading literally hundreds of write ups about it, I'm confident I can give good opinions on how to go about it.

 

[hsr]

it is very nice to roll down the freeway at 85mph and only turn 2K rpm.

Dan,

What rear end gear ratio and tire size do you have?

 

[The Dan]

3:55 rear gears, tire is 26.5" tall

 

[180 Out]

Which first gear do you have? Is it an all-new trans?

 

[The Dan]

Bought new from Jegs. All T5Z trans have 2.95 first. The non Z have the higher 3.?? ratio...can't remember exactly what it is.

 

[C6AE]

Bought new from Jegs. All T5Z trans have 2.95 first. The non Z have the higher 3.?? ratio...can't remember exactly what it is.

3.35

 

[rich64.5]

did you use a bell housing adapater for the t-5?

 

[The Dan]

Didn't have to use the bellhousing adapter. I think you only need that for early 5 bolt blocks and 6 cyl. cars. If you have a 6 bolt block the late model 5.0 bell will bolt right up, no adapter required.

 

[Rusty67]

Good job. I bet the car is WAY more fun to drive now. Thats why they call it a man-trans =-)

I can tell you it runs cooler because you don't have your radiator cooling the trans anymore. Either that or if you had a separate cooler it is not blocking the radiator anymore.

 

[66Runt]

Adapter not required with 5.0 bell housing originally designed for the T5

If you are upgrading from an original 3 or 4 speed and keeping the original bell housing (totally legit thing to do) you will need the adapter whether for V8 or I6 car. a used 5.0 bell housing and clutch fork is cheaper than the adapter, even if you get the ball stud adapter kit.

Nice write up Dan. I really like the T5z. It has a very tight ratio 1st through 4th, especially with the 3.55 and a slightly smaller tire (25.4" in my case).
The only thing I didn't like was the stock shifter. It was really notchy in the begining, and I still have a tendency to miss the 2-3 upshift if I try to man-handle it.

 

[jcode68]

Nice write up - I did the swap recently as well complete with JMC hydraulic clutch. I love the clutch, but must admit, I am one of the many that had issues getting it to fully bleed and fully extend the clutch fork. I have bled brake systems before with no problem, but was challenged by this clutch. Can you share the steps you followed in detail? The JMC instructions were very poorly written... Once you get beyond that, it has a really great feel in my opinion and is definately worth the extra money to avoid the cable/header issues.

 

[The Dan]

Perhaps I got lucky with the bleeding of the clutch, but when I did it I first gravity bled it, so just opened the bleeder until fluid started to drip out. Then I closed the bleeder. At that point I had my GF push the pedal to the floor. As she would press (slowly) I would open the bleeder, then she would tell me right before she was to the floor, then I would close the bleeder. I had her do this about 5 times. After about the 3rd I was getting a lot of fluid out of the bleeder, but did it a couple of extra times just to be sure no air was trapped. After the 5th time I had her take the pedal to the floor with the bleeder closed and felt inside the slave and the plunger was coming all the way out and flush with the inside sleeve of the slave cylinder. I knew at that point that I had good travel, and installed the push rod. I get excellent travel and actually had to reduce a bit of the preload because the travel was too much for my taste, so I had to loosen it so the clutch would come in sooner. It now comes in at about 1 1/2" off the floor. Feel is great.

 

[jcode68]

Perhaps I got lucky with the bleeding of the clutch, but when I did it I first gravity bled it, so just opened the bleeder until fluid started to drip out. Then I closed the bleeder. At that point I had my GF push the pedal to the floor. As she would press (slowly) I would open the bleeder, then she would tell me right before she was to the floor, then I would close the bleeder. I had her do this about 5 times. After about the 3rd I was getting a lot of fluid out of the bleeder, but did it a couple of extra times just to be sure no air was trapped. After the 5th time I had her take the pedal to the floor with the bleeder closed and felt inside the slave and the plunger was coming all the way out and flush with the inside sleeve of the slave cylinder. I knew at that point that I had good travel, and installed the push rod. I get excellent travel and actually had to reduce a bit of the preload because the travel was too much for my taste, so I had to loosen it so the clutch would come in sooner. It now comes in at about 1 1/2" off the floor. Feel is great.

Well, there are definately a couple of differences in the way you bled yours. I gravity bled first as you did. SNext, I had someone presee the pedal to the floor and hold it, then I would crack the bleeder until all fluid flowed completely out, closed the bleeder and repeated about 30 times. Also and more importantly, I did this with the push rod installed. The way you describe makes more sense as it would not have any force which may add to the difficulty in getting trapped air out. I've never heard of any others using this same method, but maybe that's why we all had problems

 

[ga289stocker]

Great stuff, I've almost collected the parts for mine. A few questions, what shifter did you end up using, ie b&m ripper, pro 5.0, triax, stock etc...?? Also please, please say you took some photo's of the install you wouldn't mine posting. I too have debated the whole cable vs. hyd clutch set up and really was looking at the modern driveline cable clutch set up. I have late model housing as well. I will for sure get the MD trans mount as well. Got in more good info on install, mines for a 65 model...

 

[jcode68]

I took pics and did a write up on my Car Domain site - see page 3. Of course this is for a 68, but same process.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2161687

 

[ga289stocker]

thanks jcode68, that's some nice work, i hope mine goes smooth. any problems w/ the starter install, do you have to get a mini one or is the
normal unit compatible? I have tri-y's...

 

[jcode68]

Thanks, it's been a fun project. Well, I ended up getting a new starter as part of my engine and drivetrain project and did get a mini high tourque unit. I didn't have any problems at all. You will need to make sure your starter is compatible with the 157 tooth flywheel, so I suppose the original starter would need to be replaced.

 

[69gmachine]

1. Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel: I had read that the aluminum flywheel would require higher revs to get the car off the line. IF this is true, I'm really not noticing it. It seems to me that it leaves just fine. What I do notice is that the car revs very quickly. I think that is the most notable benefit of the aluminum flywheel. So, to me, the higher revs to get of the line myth...BUSTED. Quicker revs and getting up to higher rpm's faster than a steel flywheel, true, very true. These can be had on E bay for $265, awesome price for a beautiful piece.

I had evaluated the off idle performance of my 408 as a little soft, attributing it mostly to the aluminum flywheel (and single plane intake and healthy cam). After tearing the engine down for inspection I discovered the #5 cylinder had never lit off. Shiny new piston top. I'm sure once I get it all back together and running on all 8, it will idle like a stocker and have acceptable street manners. However you don't mention your cam specs, so that may play a role as well. Also, with the alum flywheel, the ability to rev so fast with a big stroke engine is AWESOME. I was willing to accept a tradeoff at the bottom end for it... now I'm certain I can have both!

3. I read many nightmare stories regarding bleeding these things. Let me say, I have NO idea what the issues are. If you have ANY knowledge of bleeding a hydraulic system, than you can do this. I had it bled in literally 5 mins with my GF's help pumping the pedal for me.

Glad it worked out so well for you, but I can tell you from experience, that there is more than one thing that can make bleeding a clutch master more difficult than it should be. I had a leak at the master, that was on the underside of the fitting. Couldn't see any sign of a leak from up top, but couldn't bleed the slave cylinder by any method. Of course as soon as i found and fixed the leak, it took less than 2 minutes to bleed. I gravity bleed first, then have a buddy press down while I have the bleed valve open. Once the pedal is depressed all the way, I close the valve. So far this has worked great. Another problem some people have is flexing at the firewall. It doesn't take much flex to make the displacement of the clutch fork ineffective. It is often mis-diagnosed as not being bled properly, so people spend a lot of time trying to figure out what's wrong.

Anyway, good write up, and congrats on an awesome ride.

 

[chepsk8]

As I just noted on the other thread, same set-up in my Cobra. If I did it again, I would opt for 3.73's in place of my 3.55's. The aluminum flywheel is interesting, but I will hold until my current motor finally gives up.

 

[turtle99]

Is that flywheel balanced for a 28 oz or 50 oz. I am going to be doing this swap (again) in a couple weeks on my 67 Cougar. Loved the part about bleeding the clutch it only toook hmmmm......3 days last time we did, just couldn't get it working right.

Thanks

Jason