TFS TW R vs AFR heads on 327 big bore stroker

Slow5.0 · Oct 19, 2007

TFS TW R vs AFR heads on 327 big bore stroker w/ Turbo

Im tryin to figure out what heads i should use with my new setup

I gonna be using Dart iron 302 block with forged internals 327 stroker with .125" over bore which should bring about 347 or so and it will be internaly ballanced
I didnt decide to what size of turbo and what kit i wll be using but it will be something big, cam will be custom
It wll be backed up with TKO500 tranny

Goal is 700HP on 93 octane

So what heads would be better TFS TW Rs or AFR 225

On my curent set up i have TW and i love TFS stuff but i'm not really sure which way to go
Thanx

turbogt · Oct 19, 2007

why not go with a longer stroke to spool that turbo faster, like 364??? I have been planning on building a similar setup, but using a dart 351 block to get me to 464, and using either tfs cnc r heads or afr 225's, so I am very interested in comparisons between these two heads also.. The cnc r series are so new I haven't seen any comparisons with them and 225's yet...

Black95GTS · Oct 19, 2007

Are you class limited on displacement size?

If not, I have to agree with turbogt. More displacement is better for everything in this situation. I big bore 8.2 deck would make a great 364.

Go with the AFR. ED Curtis setup a 364 with AFR 225s that is daily driven and consistently runs 10s NA. Not too shabby.

Adam

Killercanary · Oct 19, 2007

Well, I just got down building a very similar setup and I can tell you that Precision turbo, PTK, and a few others suggested that IN MY CASE with a T4 flanged turbo that I do NOT go with a 363ci... thus the reason I have a 331 now. There are very few cases where more cubes isn't always better, and the months of research I did steered me away from going with the bigger cubes based on the backpressure and flow of a T4 flanged turbo. You also have to conceder efficiency ranges of the turbo you will be using. I let the size of the turbo, its efficiency range, and power goal determine my CI of my buildup. I also will not be running anything near as large as a 225 on my setup, again this is based off of the input of everyone with knowledge I completely trust.

BlackVert · Oct 19, 2007

Ernan! It has been a while since we have heard from you! How is your new job as a trucker going?

Both heads would be great. Personally, I'm an AFR guy, but that is really just personal preference. The nice thing about the AFR stuff is that it comes from the factory CNC ported, so that saves you the money of having to take off the shelf heads and having them ported.

Since you are going with a big bore, you might consider the AFR 205s or the 225s, because I believe they are made to be compatible with the larger bore.

For AFR stuff, I would talk to Ed Curtis and see what he would recommend. You also want a custom cam, so there is another reason to talk to Ed.

But since you like TFS, contact Total Engine Airflow (also referred to as TEA) and talk to them about what they have in the TFS line that would be good for you. They port alot of TW heads.

5spd GT · Oct 19, 2007

Contact Ed and ask him what he would recommend...

My guess is ab AFR 205 or AFR 225 head selection.

Nice info from killercanary.

BlownFiveLiter · Oct 19, 2007

Ernan, long time no see!

Since you already have some Twisted Wedge heads, I'd look into the cost of getting them CNC ported versus buying new. You might save a little bit of cash that way. Total Engine Airflow sells CNC ported heads and will port yours for you, too. They don't list pricing on their website, but if you wanted to get a hold of them, you can call them at (330) 634-2155, or email at totalengineairflow@gmail.com. Good luck!

Slow5.0 · Oct 20, 2007

Thanks guys i'm still alive, with my new job trucking i don't have much time to surf internet , i mean i have but after 14hrs + i just don't feel like doing anything but get some sleep, i do have wireless internet on my laptop that i pay $60 to have internet 24/7
Since last year i put about 100 miles on my Stang, sux isn't lol but on Semi Truck i put about 170k miles in last 10 months so far

Thanks for your input guys and thanks to Paul to clearing about big cubes because we have same engine builder and both cars are street driven

I don't wanna use my TW heads because they are kinda small and they are milled 40.000 to bump compression (i will just sale them)

TFS TW Rs heads i was talkin about are not regular TW heads like i have, they are Race heads, 206cc non ported and 225cc CNC

I know i could get job done with heads like i have but i want to have more room, at the end my final goal is 4 digit HP thats why i would like to have bigger heads

So i have to figure out heads with 205cc is good and enough or 225cc may be too big

And please guys i didn't make this topic to start war TFS vs AFR, so lets not go there

zenboy99 · Oct 20, 2007

Killercanary said:
There are very few cases where more cubes isn't always better,

Just an interesting note,

When restrictor plates first started being mandated in NASCAR, the successful teams (I think DEI) were actually dropping cubic inches to get more power.

SuperStang83 · Oct 20, 2007

Everyone raves about the AFRs, what makes them such a great head?

final5-0 · Oct 20, 2007

SuperStang83 said:
Everyone raves about the AFRs, what makes them such a great head?

The 165's do a nice job with a small port

This is an indication of efficiency

You get nice velocity with them as well

Grady

5spd GT · Oct 20, 2007

zenboy99 said:
Just an interesting note,

When restrictor plates first started being mandated in NASCAR, the successful teams (I think DEI) were actually dropping cubic inches to get more power.

My guess is, it is not the direct loss of cubic inches, but the geometry of the components used to get less cubic inches

turbogt · Oct 21, 2007

BlackVert said:
Ernan! It has been a while since we have heard from you! How is your new job as a trucker going?

Both heads would be great. Personally, I'm an AFR guy, but that is really just personal preference. The nice thing about the AFR stuff is that it comes from the factory CNC ported, so that saves you the money of having to take off the shelf heads and having them ported.

Since you are going with a big bore, you might consider the AFR 205s or the 225s, because I believe they are made to be compatible with the larger bore.

For AFR stuff, I would talk to Ed Curtis and see what he would recommend. You also want a custom cam, so there is another reason to talk to Ed.

But since you like TFS, contact Total Engine Airflow (also referred to as TEA) and talk to them about what they have in the TFS line that would be good for you. They port alot of TW heads.

Trickflows come factory CNC PORTED also.......
they tfs-r cnc heads are about $1200 EACH, so AFR 225's would actually cost less, until you swap out the pos springs they come with..
ED CURTIS seems to be a hell of a good guy, knows turbos very well, so I would talk to him.. I would have him grind my cam for me too...

defacto_pr · Oct 21, 2007

I'm currently building a World 9.5 351W turbo engine. Talked to Jay Allen (Camshaft Innovations) about what I wanted and his advice was to get the TEA/TFS 225 CNC High Ports. He also recommended all the necessary components I should use to get the most out of the engine (intake, torque converter, etc). I suggest you talk to the custom cam gurus, decide who's services you'll be using and let that person steer you in the right direction. BTW, I highly recommend Jay...

Slow5.0 · Oct 22, 2007

Rick from RNH Performance www.rnhperformance.com will be building my motor and he suggest to stay with 327 stroker but go with .125 bore which would bring up to 347

Slow5.0 · Oct 26, 2007

Today i talked with Rick and he suggest to go with either TFS Rs or AFR 225s
Now i have to figure out which of those two i gonna use

Pokageek · Oct 26, 2007

Either way you are going to like it. Rick is one of the best builders on the east coast in terms of knowledge and build quality. Sounds like its going to be a cool project! 327 just sounds like such a cool number.. but heck 347 is even better!

Rick 91GT · Oct 27, 2007

With the power Ernan wants to make a 363 may make sense but it really depends on the turbo he choices, which we still need to figure out..lol With intentions in the 700+ range we have to select the right components.

The 363 limits piston choices unless you go full out custom, the big bore 347 allows the use of a 1.175" piston and most off the shelf big bore pistons can ut you in ther desired compression range. The last 363 I did used a semi custom Diamond to add strength and meat in the right places.

Ernan is a TFS guy so a R head or a Highport would be a good choice, although being the AFR guy I am I like the 205 or 225.

The AFR205/225s were updated awhile back, the 165/185 just got updated with a much better spring that will take an advertised .600" lift and most of the custom cams I ever used from Jay or Ed. They have added 20lbs of seat pressure over the old POS springs.

Slow5.0 · Oct 27, 2007

Thank you Rick for clearing this up

Black95GTS · Oct 27, 2007

Rick 91GT said:
With the power Ernan wants to make a 363 may make sense but it really depends on the turbo he choices, which we still need to figure out..lol With intentions in the 700+ range we have to select the right components.

This is interesting, its great to have such knowledgeable peeps duck their heads in! If you have a couple minutes, could you describe in general terms how turbo size indicates what bore / stroke / piston speed is optimal?

I have some experience hanging out with Buick Grand National guys and they are all about piston speed... is that ignorance or truth or some of both?

thanks,

Adam

TFS TW R vs AFR heads on 327 big bore stroker

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