The 05 V6 has forged rods and the GT doesn't???

Red35th · Oct 24, 2004

According to the new MM&FF, the 05 V6 has forged rods. The top of the line GT has hyperucraptic.

Anyone explain this logic to me? Why would the new V6 get forged rods? I know it still has the bad pistons, but I wonder how much it will like more power. The bearings and ring lands are still an issue, but I wouldn't be suprised if the V6 bottom end can take more power than the V8.

Any insight into why the lowly V6 got the good rods???

Hydrocarbon · Oct 24, 2004

If true, the GT rods would be powdered metal, not hypereutectic (stupid long word). Maybe the v6 needs a blower and the GT doesn't? The weak pistons in both motors seem to indicate otherwise.

Red35th · Oct 25, 2004

Yeah, but from what I have heard it is the rods that pose the biggest problem.

So, no more bashing V6 owners, their motors can more than likely take alot more power than the V8.

new22003 · Oct 25, 2004

You bring up a good point

While the powdered rods are VERY craptastic they will take most of the abuse that the pistons will.

If you reach a certain point of power, you would change the pistons on any motor that uses hypereutectic. You are money ahead to replace the rods . You can get a decent set for $400 now. The stock crap is good enough for most 450 horse and below users.

I have often wondered why ford doesn’t include better rods and pistons from the factory on the GT.

An aftermarket setup can be had for $1000 over the counter, $900 jobber, and ford in such mass could get them or make them for less than $700 I imagine. Subtract the $500 that ford spends to make the cast pistons and cracked rods it would only cost an extra $200-$500 depending on prices.

An extra $500 over 60 months is just a few extra $ a month that most mustang enthusiasts would pay and that non-enthusiasts wouldn’t notice.

ryanrule · Oct 25, 2004

they really need to include better components in the motors. lots of imports can boost the hell out of thier cars with stock engines and we oughta be able to as well

tylers65 · Oct 25, 2004

new22003 said:
You bring up a good point

While the powdered rods are VERY craptastic they will take most of the abuse that the pistons will.

If you reach a certain point of power, you would change the pistons on any motor that uses hypereutectic. You are money ahead to replace the rods . You can get a decent set for $400 now. The stock crap is good enough for most 450 horse and below users.

I have often wondered why ford doesn’t include better rods and pistons from the factory on the GT.

An aftermarket setup can be had for $1000 over the counter, $900 jobber, and ford in such mass could get them or make them for less than $700 I imagine. Subtract the $500 that ford spends to make the cast pistons and cracked rods it would only cost an extra $200-$500 depending on prices.

An extra $500 over 60 months is just a few extra $ a month that most mustang enthusiasts would pay and that non-enthusiasts wouldn’t notice.

But then everyone would cry fowl that the price went up another $500. I know it sounds illogical, but it is true. I promise you this though, I would gladly give up the option for personalized dash lights to have an IRS or Forged internals. Ford wasted a good deal of R&D money to make so we the enthusiast could change the color of out dash lights. We should all be thrilled that we can make our dashes pink while we blow up our engines. I for one would much rather be able to have pink guages than a stronger engine.

351CJ · Oct 25, 2004

Actually, Ford wasted NO money developing MyColor, it was done by Delphi who is supplying it.

MyColor is also an option, not standard, but I agree, it's pretty much useless. 5 years from now we'll all be laughing about how stupid it was.

As far as the forged intenals go, Name the other cars that the Mustang competes with that have forged internals.

The reality is, Ford will sell 200,00 Mustangs a year. Less than 1,000 of them will be adding S/Cs or Turbos and need forged internals. That majority of Mustang customers don't have the slightest clue what forged internals are. It is impossible to make a business case for building them with forged internals.

tylers65 · Oct 25, 2004

351CJ said:
Actually, Ford wasted NO money developing MyColor, it was done by Delphi who is supplying it.

MyColor is also an option, not standard, but I agree, it's pretty much useless. 5 years from now we'll all be laughing about how stupid it was.

As far as the forged intenals go, Name the other cars that the Mustang competes with that have forged internals.

The reality is, Ford will sell 200,00 Mustangs a year. Less than 1,000 of them will be adding S/Cs or Turbos and need forged internals. That majority of Mustang customers don't have the slightest clue what forged internals are. It is impossible to make a business case for building them with forged internals.

Just like there was no business case to give the drag racing Mustang enthusiasts a live axle but instead we all got stuck with.. oh wait, we all got a live axle because the MUSTANG ENTHUSIATS WANTED THEM!!!!

And you are right about Delphi developing the My Color option. But you will never convince me that Ford paid absolutley no R&D costs to figure out how to make this novelty work in a brand nerw guage cluster.

Also, read my post again where it says

I would gladly give up the option for personalized dash lights

351CJ · Oct 25, 2004

tylers65 said:
Also, read my post again where it says

I would gladly give up the option for personalized dash lights

Read my post again, I got your sarcasm, my comment "5 years from now we'll all be laughing about how stupid it was." (my color) was agreeing with you.

tylers65 · Oct 25, 2004

351CJ said:
Read my post again, I got your sarcasm, my comment "5 years from now we'll all be laughing about how stupid it was." (my color) was agreeing with you.

You stated the My Color is an option and not standard. This was already pointed out in my post. This is the only reason I said that.

But what about the business case for Forged internals? Ford claims that they gave us all live axles because that is what the enthusiasts wanted.

What about the R&D on the guages? Delphi did not develop the guages but only the ability to change colors with LED lights. Do you think Ford spen $0.00 to get them fit into the guages? Do you think Ford spent $0.00 to buy the rights to use this technology?

My point is simple. Instead of spending good money on crap, Ford could have and should have given the Mustang an IRS option instead of neat little guage lights. Or perhaps forged internals?

EDIT:

One more thought...

Perhaps it is better that Ford spent good money on nifty dash lights instead of developing the new Lightning. They claim that the cost to develop the new Lightning was prohibative. I bet that the Lightning enthusiasts will be thrilled to death knowing that the Mustang can have pink dash lights but they have no Lightning.

351CJ · Oct 25, 2004

I still don't think that MyColor cost Ford much of anything. Yea, Ford probably has an exclusive for a short period of time, but it will show up on other vehicles fairly soon, unless it completely tanks in the market. I bet Ford's exclusive deal hinged only on Ford's commitment to by 100,000 MyColors per year and NOTHING else.

It's all about +1 marketing, coming up with some gimmic that no-one else has that will attract customers. Obviously a gimminc like MyColor is not needed to sell 2005 Mustangs. But back when the '05 Stang was in development I'm sure everyone at Ford was shaking in their boots wondering if the '05 would really sell of if they would have their carears at Ford ended for "wasting" so much money developing a new Mustang.

Back about 6 months ago at one of the '05 Stang road shows I talked to the Ford manager that was there about '05 Sales. I told him that their planned production #'s of 180,000 - 195,000 were way low. I told him that if Ford could build them they'd sell 250,000 of them a year. His reply was "Not in this market, it's too segmented". This was April 2004 and it was clear that Ford people were still second guessing themselves and still did not have a clue as to how hot the '05 Stang is.

spectravp · Oct 25, 2004

tylers65 said:
You stated the My Color is an option and not standard. This was already pointed out in my post. This is the only reason I said that.

But what about the business case for Forged internals? Ford claims that they gave us all live axles because that is what the enthusiasts wanted.

What about the R&D on the guages? Delphi did not develop the guages but only the ability to change colors with LED lights. Do you think Ford spen $0.00 to get them fit into the guages? Do you think Ford spent $0.00 to buy the rights to use this technology?

My point is simple. Instead of spending good money on crap, Ford could have and should have given the Mustang an IRS option instead of neat little guage lights. Or perhaps forged internals?

EDIT:

One more thought...

Perhaps it is better that Ford spent good money on nifty dash lights instead of developing the new Lightning. They claim that the cost to develop the new Lightning was prohibative. I bet that the Lightning enthusiasts will be thrilled to death knowing that the Mustang can have pink dash lights but they have no Lightning.

I don't disagree with you, at all. But, to the mass consumer, that is, the stupid people, will go goo goo gah gah and buy something because of a neat gizmo. Not for some internal parts they never get to see or even know the difference. Like someone else said, 99% of buyers aren't going to mod their cars and therefore do not require better internals.

Point is:
Goo Goo Gah Gah gadgets will help sell cars.
The internals, while attractive to us enthusiasts, will not.
Besides, I do not know anyone who would not buy a Stang because of the internals. Chances are, even if they were forged, some of us would switch them anyway!

gilmoujr · Oct 25, 2004

tylers65 said:
Instead of spending good money on crap, Ford could have and should have given the Mustang an IRS option instead of neat little guage lights. Or perhaps forged internals?

I have to say that if they were to ome up with the IRS Option then they should also have a "Drag Pack" option that inludes gears, stronger axles, etc.

There are just too many "enthusiasts" to please out there. They have to make the acr for the AVERAGE Joe and we are not the AVERAGE Joe. We spend more time thinking of our cars than most else in life. We represent about 1% of all Mustang owners. Ford's answer to our dilemna - the aftermarket manufacturers.

tylers65 · Oct 25, 2004

spectravp said:
I don't disagree with you, at all. But, to the mass consumer, that is, the stupid people, will go goo goo gah gah and buy something because of a neat gizmo. Not for some internal parts they never get to see or even know the difference. Like someone else said, 99% of buyers aren't going to mod their cars and therefore do not require better internals.

Point is:
Goo Goo Gah Gah gadgets will help sell cars.
The internals, while attractive to us enthusiasts, will not.
Besides, I do not know anyone who would not buy a Stang because of the internals. Chances are, even if they were forged, some of us would switch them anyway!

I know, but it just pisses me off that Ford can do something half assed and say they did it for the Enthusiasts who drag race (standard live axle) and then put something totally worthless in a car that no true enthusiast really wants. Ford is trying to claim that they have the enthusiast in mind when they do this type of thing... never mind.

Simply put, they are telling us it's raining when really they are emptying their bladders on us all.

Red35th · Oct 26, 2004

The fact still remains, if good internals are too expensive (which they prob are), then why does the BASE model V6 mustang get them???

351CJ · Oct 26, 2004

Red35th said:
The fact still remains, if good internals are too expensive (which they prob are), then why does the BASE model V6 mustang get them???

Most likely it is because of the design of the V6 engine, it needs forged rods to meet reliability requirements.

The size of the V6 rods, or the rod loading due to the 60 degree block angle, stroke to rod ratio or any number of other factors could mandate the use of forged rods in the V6.

Or, it could just be that's the way Cologne designs their engines. Maybe the V6 doesn't need forged rods but volume of the 4.0 could be low enough that the bean counters haven't yet gotten around to demanding a cost reduction program for the 4.0 V6.

Or it could be that Cologne does not have powdered metal cracked rod manufacturing equipment that would make acceptable replacements for the forged rods like the Romeo & Windsor plants have.

QCStang · Oct 26, 2004

Red35th said:
The fact still remains, if good internals are too expensive (which they prob are), then why does the BASE model V6 mustang get them???

Two words:

Truck engine

OUT FOX EM · Oct 26, 2004

If you want a damn forged engine then wait for the Cobra.

The 05 V6 has forged rods and the GT doesn't???

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