the 408 lives!

78pinto · May 25, 2005

the 408 lives! pictures added!

Hey all, It lives, the 408 roared to life tonight! It turned over about 4 times, then the battery died (should have put the charger on) I put in on a fast charge, got in about 5 minutes later and it fired right up! No leaks, no "strange engine noises" , my only problem is my tack isn't working I can live with that!(more wiring) Couple more days and it'll be ready for the street.

1badII · May 25, 2005

Looks like I'm going to have to up my cubes to be top dog...

Mustangj · May 25, 2005

I am 102 cid down, I would need bigger jets for the plate

COBRAIIW · May 25, 2005

Guess who's going into the 11's soon.
Get that Pinto to the track!

78pinto · May 26, 2005

COBRAIIW said:
Guess who's going into the 11's soon.
Get that Pinto to the track!

I hear ya! It'll be interesting to see what it runs with no other modifications at all to the engine, i'm running heavily ported Windsor Sr. heads with the same Comp cam from last years 357 build. The only difference is it has 51 cubic inches more and 42lb injectors (24's last year) Later in the year i might go with 1.72 roller rockers and get rid of the 1.6's, that will give me a bit more lift on the cam. Any idea what it would be, its currently a mild .523 .523

jeffnoel · May 26, 2005

It would change the lift to about .560

78pinto · May 27, 2005

thanks, i may do that a bit later on in the summer.

here are some pictures. I joined the Pinto loom and the EFI mustang loom together to clean up the engine compartment a bit. I added some front brace bars from the firewall to the frame rail for some strength, cut out the inner fenders and added some perforated steel panels to fill the void yet allow some of the underhood hot air to escape

Blue Thunder · May 28, 2005

Not only will the lift increase to .562, but the duration @.050"(usable duration) will increase slightly as well.

Blue Thunder · May 29, 2005

I'm probably going to be building a 351W stroker this winter and selling off my current 332" shortblock/intake/msd distributor.

78pinto · May 29, 2005

Good idea! I took it out to the local cruise last night, my god....the power!

Blue Thunder · May 29, 2005

78pinto said:
Good idea! I took it out to the local cruise last night, my god....the power!

No replacement for displacement.

Coast Performance has a good selection of parts for strokers. I was looking at the cast steel 4.17"(!!!) stroke piece. I want to bore the block to the "safe" limit, which I assume is .060". (I lie, I actually want to bore that block until it's almost see-through, but I have to control such urges)
A 351W with 4.060" bore x 4.17" stroke = 432 cubic inches. That's a lot of freeking twist right there. A hundred more cubes than my current small block, in a package which looks the same to the untrained eye. You can go much larger with the use of a Dart Iron Eagle block, which can be bored to 4.185", giving you a 459 cubic inch monster small block. A 460 in disguise. But I doubt I'll have the free cash floating around to invest in those blocks, and anyway, my TFS track-heat heads would be way hard-pressed giving that thing enough air at even 5000 rpm. Would also need some serious heads, like those R series, which leads to the need for huge 2" headers..

Anyway, my main concern is the rod/stroke ratio. I was looking at 400M rods, and they're 6.58" long, (the stock 351W has a 5.95")same journals as the 351W, and would give the stroker a decent(but not great) ratio. I'm just wondering if using a forged piston with the pin located way up into the oil ring groove would make enough room for the extra stroke AND the long rods. I might have to go with a smaller stroke, because I'd rather have the longer rods than the extra stroke and the short rods.
I have to get my hands dirty and measure and test stuff on the 351W motor and the 400M parts I have laying around.

I'm going for a milder, more street mannered motor with lots more torque and similar hp at a much lower rpm as my current ill-mannered slobbering 332" which shakes the mirrors so bad I can't see anything in them at idle.

78pinto · May 29, 2005

yes watch for rod/stroke ratio. Don't go anything past 427 or you'll have problems with skirt wear or breakage (more so the more your going to rev it) I used an Eagle crank (cast steel)4.100 stroke and its cheap ($239), and 40% stronger than a factory crank. I used a set of Eagle H beam rods i bought off evilbay for $250 (still in box, never used) 6.200 and bought a set of Probe SRS pistons. The oil rings do not intercect (sp?) the piston pin. For the cost of machining the 400 crank, just buy the Eagle or Scat crank.... it's stronger anyhow! The block hardly needed to be notched (cap screws on the rods)

Blue Thunder · May 30, 2005

78pinto said:
yes watch for rod/stroke ratio. Don't go anything past 427 or you'll have problems with skirt wear or breakage (more so the more your going to rev it) I used an Eagle crank (cast steel)4.100 stroke and its cheap ($239), and 40% stronger than a factory crank. I used a set of Eagle H beam rods i bought off evilbay for $250 (still in box, never used) 6.200 and bought a set of Probe SRS pistons. The oil rings do not intercect (sp?) the piston pin. For the cost of machining the 400 crank, just buy the Eagle or Scat crank.... it's stronger anyhow! The block hardly needed to be notched (cap screws on the rods)

That's exactly the info I wanted. Thanks. If the 6.2" rods fit without the pin being in the ring area, then I can make longer rods fit. I don't mind the pin intersecting the ring area, because the billet plugs they use to support the ring work nicely. (I use them on my 332", because I have long rods in there, too) I like the JE pistons a lot, and they make specific pistons for the TFS canted valve heads, too.
Now I have to go figure out the longest possible rod that will physically fit inside the confines of a 351W, and who makes them.

jeffnoel · May 30, 2005

A friend put a CHP stroker 427 in his Factory Five Cobra and that thing is insane when he gets in the pedal.

78pinto · May 30, 2005

longest rod i know of is 6.300 for a aftermarket block with a crank stroke of 4.250 i believe. You would be getting into some serious block clearancing. Stock block, i think you can go with a 6.250 rod and a 4.100 crank

Blue Thunder · Jun 1, 2005

78pinto said:
longest rod i know of is 6.300 for a aftermarket block with a crank stroke of 4.250 i believe. You would be getting into some serious block clearancing. Stock block, i think you can go with a 6.250 rod and a 4.100 crank

With the Dart Iron Eagle block, those 6.3 rods, 4.25 stroke, 4.185 bore, you would have 468 cubic inches, and a 1.48:1 rod/stroke ratio.

I guess the 4.17 stroke and 6.2 rod combo would be my best choice, since I don't want to invest in a Dart block yet. (read: I don't have that much to spend right now!)
With 6.2 rods, 4.17 stroke, that's still a miserable 1.48:1 r/s ratio, but it'll have to do.

I am looking for an F4T ('94 and up truck) 351W block, because I want the stock roller lifter setup. I have a good set of 302 roller lifters, which I assume are the same pieces used in the factory 351W roller motor. All I'd need to buy is a performance roller cam.

This motor will be geared toward street use; build it, install it, shut the hood and don't even look at it again unless it's to change the oil.

Blue Thunder · Jun 2, 2005

78pinto said:
yes watch for rod/stroke ratio. Don't go anything past 427 or you'll have problems with skirt wear or breakage (more so the more your going to rev it) I used an Eagle crank (cast steel)4.100 stroke and its cheap ($239), and 40% stronger than a factory crank. I used a set of Eagle H beam rods i bought off evilbay for $250 (still in box, never used) 6.200 and bought a set of Probe SRS pistons. The oil rings do not intercect (sp?) the piston pin. For the cost of machining the 400 crank, just buy the Eagle or Scat crank.... it's stronger anyhow! The block hardly needed to be notched (cap screws on the rods)

They sell a 427 stroker kit for about $1200. I have to check on whether the rods are light, and if they're bushed for floating pins, and how heavy the pistons are, too. I'm thinking the cast steel crank will be lighter than a forged steel unit, since the forging will be much denser. So overkill wouldnt be a good thing in that case. (I wonder how the weight of the cast steel crank compares to the weight of the stock 351W cast iron crank?)
The stroker combination is probably a lot lighter than the stock setup.

How quick does your (419"??) motor tach up?
Does it lope much at idle? How's the idle vac.? How much compression are you running?

I plan on re-using my TFS heads, (I need some serious dish pistons to bring the cr down to 10.5-10.75, the heads are milled to 57cc chambers) with an RPM airgap, the 750 demon carb, and a roller cam with .555"/.570" lift, and 238/245 dur. @.050" I'm shooting for peak hp around 5800 rpm, and shifting at 6200, with a fairly mild idle quality.

78pinto · Jun 3, 2005

I made an error in my post, i used a 4.00 stroke crank...not a 4.100 stroke. It is a 408. It tacks up real fast (only have a 3.50 gear) it'll bust the street tires loose VERY easy. It's not a lumpy cam....loaps a bit maybe but not real nasty, as far as the vac.....not clue, have nothing that needs vac to run (except fuel pressure regulator....and it does its job so all must be well!) My compression works out to about 10.3:1 My pistons are 19cc dish with my 62 ish cc Windsor Sr. heads. Give me your email addy and i'll send you a 2 meg video with sound of it idling taken about 10 minutes after i fired it for the first time.

Blue Thunder · Jun 3, 2005

78pinto said:
I made an error in my post, i used a 4.00 stroke crank...not a 4.100 stroke. It is a 408. It tacks up real fast (only have a 3.50 gear) it'll bust the street tires loose VERY easy. It's not a lumpy cam....loaps a bit maybe but not real nasty, as far as the vac.....not clue, have nothing that needs vac to run (except fuel pressure regulator....and it does its job so all must be well!) My compression works out to about 10.3:1 My pistons are 19cc dish with my 62 ish cc Windsor Sr. heads. Give me your email addy and i'll send you a 2 meg video with sound of it idling taken about 10 minutes after i fired it for the first time.

Cool, send it to americanthunder@optonline.net

Thanks!

78pinto · Jun 5, 2005

email sent, there is two vids.

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