The new 5.0 in a SN95???

[d98gt]

HMP on Sunday.
I will pay half of your tow home after your weak rear breaks

 

[tank_567]

I'm not sure why every thread that has the 5.0 has to turn into a pissing match guys?

b/c im a hater

no a 2V cant.

500rwhp is rare to survive in a 2V. maybe 1 person has done it. there are not 500rwhp 2V's out there everywhere. there ARE 600rwhp coyote's out there. and they will live plenty long.

so i build my coyote's bottom end and its lights out. you can NEVER as long as you live make the power a built coyote can.

hhmmmmmm I raced a 2009 Shelby GT 500 w/ 530rwhp and beat him 4 out of 5 races by 2-3 tenths everytime. OH and he had DRs on his ride.... nope the 2v is crap.

Skip to 3:55 of the video YouTube - 10-17-2010 Dyno and Drag day <-- oh yeah I forgot my clutch is slipping really bad, Must be all that weak sauce torque im making with a 2v.

 

[BurningRubber]

I'd hope there are no 600rwhp 5.0's that have blown up yet, seeing as they are brand spanking new motors. I doubt seriously the 500rwhp 4.6's that are currently alive out there are 0 mile motors; I'd venture to guess have at least 40-45k on them at the low end.

If you had a 500rwhp 0 mile 2v and a 600rwhp 0 mile 5.0 I'd expect them to last roughly the same amount of time given all other equal variables.


It would be cool as hell to see a 5.0 swapped in a SN95, don't get me wrong, but I think the price aspect is being totally overlooked.

It's going to cost OVER 10K to get a bone stock 5.0 in there. There will be odds in ends for the swap that will have to be purchased, and it's assumed that no labor charges whatsoever will be included.

Say you go for a 500rwhp N/A 5.0, and using Bill's figures you get up to $7k plus. So now you have a 500rwhp N/A 5.0 in an SN95, awesome! However, you just spent $17k BARE ASS MINIMUM TO GET THERE!...


So I have to jump on the 2v boat with this one. 17k put into an SN95 car, you can't even begin to make an argument as to "well the heads/cam/bolt on/tuned/stock bottom end 5.0 is still better, neener neener neener", and if you do, you need to pull your head out of your ass.

Personally, I'd build a silly 2v, walk everyone else, and be the underdog.

 

[tank_567]

I'd hope there are no 600rwhp 5.0's that have blown up yet, seeing as they are brand spanking new motors. I doubt seriously the 500rwhp 4.6's that are currently alive out there are 0 mile motors; I'd venture to guess have at least 40-45k on them at the low end.

If you had a 500rwhp 0 mile 2v and a 600rwhp 0 mile 5.0 I'd expect them to last roughly the same amount of time given all other equal variables.


It would be cool as hell to see a 5.0 swapped in a SN95, don't get me wrong, but I think the price aspect is being totally overlooked.

It's going to cost OVER 10K to get a bone stock 5.0 in there. There will be odds in ends for the swap that will have to be purchased, and it's assumed that no labor charges whatsoever will be included.

Say you go for a 500rwhp N/A 5.0, and using Bill's figures you get up to $7k plus. So now you have a 500rwhp N/A 5.0 in an SN95, awesome! However, you just spent $17k BARE ASS MINIMUM TO GET THERE!...


So I have to jump on the 2v boat with this one. 17k put into an SN95 car, you can't even begin to make an argument as to "well the heads/cam/bolt on/tuned/stock bottom end 5.0 is still better, neener neener neener", and if you do, you need to pull your head out of your ass.

Personally, I'd build a silly 2v, walk everyone else, and be the underdog.

 

[SlammedGT]

Just go finance a 2011 with $0 down, bring it home, swap everything into you car.... toss the 2011 in the river, report it stolen... and drive away laughing

 

[3-0-II]

Just go finance a 2011 with $0 down, bring it home, swap everything into you car.... toss the 2011 in the river, report it stolen... and drive away laughing

best idea so far

i like my 2v, but I definitely will be looking into this swap for my bullitt someday. probably not for a few years, but hell it'll be cheaper by then too.

also this entire argument of why spend so much swapping a new motor into an old car is ludicrous. how many people spent thousands swapping in 4.6s into classics and foxes before there were easy kits and the like?

this is just another step in mustang history and people are going to keep updating their cars until the cars are no more. the next mustang could be a dang hovercar and you know SOMEONE is gonna swap that **** into their old car

 

[Gearbanger 101]

b/c im a hater



hhmmmmmm I raced a 2009 Shelby GT 500 w/ 530rwhp and beat him 4 out of 5 races by 2-3 tenths everytime. OH and he had DRs on his ride.... nope the 2v is crap.

Skip to 3:55 of the video YouTube - 10-17-2010 Dyno and Drag day <-- oh yeah I forgot my clutch is slipping really bad, Must be all that weak sauce torque im making with a 2v.

What I think Bill's point is pointing to, is either engines over all efficiency. Of course a 2V/4V/OHC can be built to out power a 5.0L TiVCT, but given equal conditions (the same modifications, the same power adders, the airflow levels, under the same circumstances, in the same environments) the 5.0L TiVCT is superior by far across the board to any before it. The block and rotating assembly a lighter, more stout package, the heads and intake are far more capable and are of a much more efficient design and the variable cam timing provides a wide range of adjustment, resulting in a broad powerband that quite frankly isn’t matchable with the earlier platforms.

Tank, you beat that GT500 because you put your power to the pavement more effectively and the fact that his car outweighs yours by a good 600-800lbs and let’s not forget the all important driver mod…..not because either one of your engines was superior or inferior to the other. Oh…and it looks to me based on your burn out and “scratch” as you drove out of it that he wasn’t the only one running Drag Radials that day.

I'd hope there are no 600rwhp 5.0's that have blown up yet, seeing as they are brand spanking new motors. I doubt seriously the 500rwhp 4.6's that are currently alive out there are 0 mile motors; I'd venture to guess have at least 40-45k on them at the low end.

If you had a 500rwhp 0 mile 2v and a 600rwhp 0 mile 5.0 I'd expect them to last roughly the same amount of time given all other equal variables.


It would be cool as hell to see a 5.0 swapped in a SN95, don't get me wrong, but I think the price aspect is being totally overlooked.

It's going to cost OVER 10K to get a bone stock 5.0 in there. There will be odds in ends for the swap that will have to be purchased, and it's assumed that no labor charges whatsoever will be included.

Say you go for a 500rwhp N/A 5.0, and using Bill's figures you get up to $7k plus. So now you have a 500rwhp N/A 5.0 in an SN95, awesome! However, you just spent $17k BARE ASS MINIMUM TO GET THERE!...


So I have to jump on the 2v boat with this one. 17k put into an SN95 car, you can't even begin to make an argument as to "well the heads/cam/bolt on/tuned/stock bottom end 5.0 is still better, neener neener neener", and if you do, you need to pull your head out of your ass.

Personally, I'd build a silly 2v, walk everyone else, and be the underdog.

Explain to me again why the only go to argument the 2V/OHV guys have ageist the new 5.0L Coyote involves seriously modding the former, to beat a stock version of the later?

Doesn't speak much for the haters when they've got to mod the piss out of their current platforms in order to hang with the newer one.

And again....you bolt as many parts onto the earlier engines as you'd like, but they still don't come anywhere close to meeting the efficiency levels of the new 5.0L TiVCT. You either end up compromising fuel economy, emissions and/or reliability....even if you do happen to end up making more power in the end. How is that pray tell....."better"?

Comparing ET's in a Fox, SN95, S197 against one and other is frankly and severely flawed standard to set. None of the cars weigh the same, distribute said weight the same, or utilize the same suspension components. A stripped 300rwhp Fox/SN95 with drag suspension and slicks is going to outrun a stock, full weight '11 GT on street tires without even trying, but to think because the Fox/SN95 crossed the line first and that now that its pushing anywhere from 7 to 32-years-old and cost it must be the better choice of vehicle is idiotic! Anyone with that line of thinking needs to have their head examined.

As far as 500hp 4.6L’s go. Maybe they’re living long lives with forged bottom ends, but I haven’t seen a single one making those types of power levels live anywhere close to 40-45k. The components just aren’t tough enough to take the abuse. Of course now that I said that, someone will chime in how they’ve got a friend of a friend who’s done it….but trust me. For every one you show me living on borrowed time at those power levels, I can’t point you to 10 that a taken a dirt nap making even less power than that.

The previous owner of my car was one of those ten and he wiped it out making far, far less than 500rwhp. The 2V in stock trim just isn’t a tough engine. Not for the kind of abuse they would need to take from a power adder to see those kinds of power levels…..sorry.

 

[mransr]

Some people just don't like change.

and some people don't seem to like SN95s or 4.6 engines either

 

[Gearbanger 101]

and some people don't seem to like SN95s or 4.6 engines either

I hope you aren’t referring to me? I wouldn’t have sunk $10,000 into my own trying to make it fast if that were the case. I’m just able to recognize a superior successor when I see it.

 

[BurningRubber]

Explain to me again why the only go to argument the 2V/OHV guys have ageist the new 5.0L Coyote involves seriously modding the former, to beat a stock version of the later?

Doesn't speak much for the haters when they've got to mod the piss out of their current platforms in order to hang with the newer one.

And again....you bolt as many parts onto the earlier engines as you'd like, but they still don't come anywhere close to meeting the efficiency levels of the new 5.0L TiVCT. You either end up compromising fuel economy, emissions and/or reliability....even if you do happen to end up making more power in the end. How is that pray tell....."better"?

Comparing ET's in a Fox, SN95, S197 against one and other is frankly and severely flawed standard to set. None of the cars weigh the same, distribute said weight the same, or utilize the same suspension components. A stripped 300rwhp Fox/SN95 with drag suspension and slicks is going to outrun a stock, full weight '11 GT on street tires without even trying, but to think because the Fox/SN95 crossed the line first and that now that its pushing anywhere from 7 to 32-years-old and cost it must be the better choice of vehicle is idiotic! Anyone with that line of thinking needs to have their head examined.

As far as 500hp 4.6L’s go. Maybe they’re living long lives with forged bottom ends, but I haven’t seen a single one making those types of power levels live anywhere close to 40-45k. The components just aren’t tough enough to take the abuse. Of course now that I said that, someone will chime in how they’ve got a friend of a friend who’s done it….but trust me. For every one you show me living on borrowed time at those power levels, I can’t point you to 10 that a taken a dirt nap making even less power than that.

The previous owner of my car was one of those ten and he wiped it out making far, far less than 500rwhp. The 2V in stock trim just isn’t a tough engine. Not for the kind of abuse they would need to take from a power adder to see those kinds of power levels…..sorry.

Hasn't the trend always been newer is better (for the most part), and guys that have older platforms know they'll have to mod just to keep up with a newer stock version of the vehicle? That is nothing new, and I'm not basing an argument over it. The new 5.0 will rape any stock, or full bolt on (no cams, engine work)/geared stock weight 99-04 without contest.

Which brings me to this: I'm not disagreeing that the 5.0 is a better platform... In every form except simplicity, it is better than a 2v.

As far as comparing E.T.'s, of course the faster car is totally dependent on what year and setup the car is. I'm not making the point that a 500rwhp, 99 GT is a superior car to a stock '11 just because it's faster, or anything along those lines.

My whole point is related to swapping in a new 5.0 into an SN-95 car and the relation to cost effectiveness. I am just saying you're spending 10k for a stock 5.0 at minimum to have a car that would make 360-390 at the rear wheels, when for 10k you can build/buy a 2v forged shortblock, and set up a very nice blower, nitrous, or even turbo setup and then the sky is the limit as far as power.

Add on another 7k for a 500rwhp N/A 5.0 and it just seems pointless to do so. Just like it seems pointless to spend $3k-$3.5k on heads/cam/intake/labor like some people do just to build a N/A 2v when for around the same price or slightly more, you can have a forced induction setup and be able to crank out more power.

As far as 500rwhp+ stock bottom end 2v's, on Corral.net there was a list of people that had a 500+rwhp 2v and how long they lived for. I was impressed to see that 1; there was actually more than one or two guys running that setup, and 2; that not all of them blew up upon the initial startup. Some lasted a while, some didn't. That's just how it goes, but it'll only be a matter of time before people start popping the 5.0's at the 2v equivalent of 500rwhp. Wait for the bad tunes, or wait for the mileage to add up. The engine still has powdered rods and hyper pistons at the end of the day...

I’m just able to recognize a superior successor when I see it.

I don't think anyone in this thread thinks the 5.0 is a lesser engine than the 2v, lol. If so, I have some desert in Florida I'd like to sell them...

 

[Gearbanger 101]

My whole point is related to swapping in a new 5.0 into an SN-95 car and the relation to cost effectiveness. I am just saying you're spending 10k for a stock 5.0 at minimum to have a car that would make 360-390 at the rear wheels, when for 10k you can build/buy a 2v forged shortblock, and set up a very nice blower, nitrous, or even turbo setup and then the sky is the limit as far as power.

Without diving too deeply into this one, I'll just touch on this point. You're not going to come anywhere close to sky is the limit for $10k with any engine. $10k will get you in and running with the new 5.0L TiVCT. If power is your motivation, then you'll spend at least that much on new parts for a 4.6L 2V/4V to make it match the N/A power levels of the 5.0L TiVCT. More if you choose to go the Forced induction route. And in the end you don't have the drivability, get the fuel economy, or the 12-month, 12,000-mile warranty that goes with it.

Add on another 7k for a 500rwhp N/A 5.0 and it just seems pointless to do so. Just like it seems pointless to spend $3k-$3.5k on heads/cam/intake/labor like some people do just to build a N/A 2v when for around the same price or slightly more, you can have a forced induction setup and be able to crank out more power.

No more pointless or less expensive than it would be trying to reach 500rwhp N/A with a 2V? Just as in the case of the 2V/4V Modulars, it's more cost effective to go the forced induction route. The only difference being you don't need dive into the 5.0L TiVCT in order to prepare it for those power levels like you do the Windsor/Romeo engines.

As far as 500rwhp+ stock bottom end 2v's, on Corral.net there was a list of people that had a 500+rwhp 2v and how long they lived for. I was impressed to see that 1; there was actually more than one or two guys running that setup, and 2; that not all of them blew up upon the initial startup. Some lasted a while, some didn't. That's just how it goes, but it'll only be a matter of time before people start popping the 5.0's at the 2v equivalent of 500rwhp. Wait for the bad tunes, or wait for the mileage to add up. The engine still has powdered rods and hyper pistons at the end of the day...

Isn't that pretty muchwhat I just said?

A bad tune will kill any engine. The fact of the matter though, is that the earlier modular’s don't have the internal fortitude to resist any margin of error. I've seen the paper thin top ring lands break off, rods twist and buckle and oil pump gears shatter under even the slightest hint of detonation in a 2V/4V.

The 5.0L TiVCT has addressed all of these problem areas. This engine has forged powdered rods that are twice as stout as the previous powdered cracked cap versions. If you doubt their resilience, just keep in mind....these new rods are made using the same materials and the same forging process as the LSX engines....and we all know how well they hold up under stress. The pistons are far, far beefier than the outgoing ones and oil cooled on top of that. The cranks are steel and the block is reinforced. This is NOT the same engine coming into the Mustang, as the one going out.

 

[billfisher]

im not a SN95 or 4.6 hater. i wouldnt be sinking thousands more into my 96gt with 93 4v if that was the case.


but swapping a coyote into a SN is a great idea. drivability, gas mileage, power like never before. they will be in junkyards soon enough. in trucks and cars. the mounting points did not move anywhere. a few adjustments and they fit. buy the engine, tranny, pcm and gauge cluster. make it work. i bet in a few years they will be cheaper. remember when i got the 5.4 3v for 1800.00. 1000 miles. it will be the same.

 

[billfisher]

coyote's are surviving at 700rwhp. 600 rwhp is good forever in a safe tune. there are only a few known failures. they are tune related in most cases.

 

[tank_567]

Tank, you beat that GT500 because you put your power to the pavement more effectively and the fact that his car outweighs yours by a good 600-800lbs and let’s not forget the all important driver mod…..not because either one of your engines was superior or inferior to the other. Oh…and it looks to me based on your burn out and “scratch” as you drove out of it that he wasn’t the only one running Drag Radials that day.

Its called a second gear burn out.... Im running street tires pics from the track below... ANYWAYS ALL WE ARE SAYING IS THE 5.0 WOULD COST A LOT OF MONEY TO SWAP IN TO A SN95!! AND YOU CAN MAKE GREAT POWER WITH THE 4.6L FOR LESS!! like I said before if you want to roll agenst my 4.6 with a 62mm turbo on a stock engine bring it! Oh btw i've been running 14lbs of boost this week, no issues.

Also on the weight of the gt 500, 600-800lbs REALLY!?! come on, my car is at full weight spare and all in my car, hell i even had tools in the car. My weight with me in it with a half tank came in at 3566lbs, and Im sure that GT 500 is around 3900-4000lbs

OH one more thing my car has welllllllllll over 100,000 miles on it, bet I can put another 100,000 on it. I think the turbo will go before the engine does..

PS heres another video of me killing 3 cars running slicks, also an evo off the line and ran my best 60ft of 1.77 ON STREET TIRES W/STOCK 3.27 GEARS AND AXLES!!

YouTube - Turbo 4.6 mustang eats all

 

[BurningRubber]

Without diving too deeply into this one, I'll just touch on this point. You're not going to come anywhere close to sky is the limit for $10k with any engine. $10k will get you in and running with the new 5.0L TiVCT. If power is your motivation, then you'll spend at least that much on new parts for a 4.6L 2V/4V to make it match the N/A power levels of the 5.0L TiVCT. More if you choose to go the Forced induction route. And in the end you don't have the drivability, get the fuel economy, or the 12-month, 12,000-mile warranty that goes with it.

I have a close friend that has a 540rwhp 2v. Built bottom end, Vortech blown, all supporting mods. His car idles/runes/drives smoother than mine does and gets about the same gas mileage.

Sky is the limit was an over-exaggeration, but you could have a forged bottom end, and a nice Vortech S, or SQ trim that is putting out the maximum power it's capable of doing and not have to worry about the engine holding up. If you upgraded, the bottom end will still take more.

No more pointless or less expensive than it would be trying to reach 500rwhp N/A with a 2V? Just as in the case of the 2V/4V Modulars, it's more cost effective to go the forced induction route. The only difference being you don't need dive into the 5.0L TiVCT in order to prepare it for those power levels like you do the Windsor/Romeo engines.

500rwhp N/A in a 2v is not the same as 500rwhp N/A in a 5.0. You're talking over 250rwhp in gains for a stock 2v vs 140rwhp for a stock 5.0 to reach that mark. Apples or oranges.

Isn't that pretty muchwhat I just said?

A bad tune will kill any engine. The fact of the matter though, is that the earlier modular’s don't have the internal fortitude to resist any margin of error. I've seen the paper thin top ring lands break off, rods twist and buckle and oil pump gears shatter under even the slightest hint of detonation in a 2V/4V.

The 5.0L TiVCT has addressed all of these problem areas. This engine has forged powdered rods that are twice as stout as the previous powdered cracked cap versions. If you doubt their resilience, just keep in mind....these new rods are made using the same materials and the same forging process as the LSX engines....and we all know how well they hold up under stress. The pistons are far, far beefier than the outgoing ones and oil cooled on top of that. The cranks are steel and the block is reinforced. This is NOT the same engine coming into the Mustang, as the one going out.

I'm sure and I'd hope very much so that the new motor has overcome those past weak points. I'm not knocking the engine at all, I'm just saying when it comes to taking one apart and building it to hold power, what you start with really doesn't matter. We all know the 2v block isn't a weak spot, neither is the 5.0 block. It's just what's stuffed inside that counts, and yes, the 5.0 has an edge on the 2v very much so in that respect.

I've also seen/heard of 2v's blowing up under conditions you would have expected them to hold through, and I've also seen them take more abuse than what you think they would before they puked (like my engine).


I think we're just getting way off track about the whole thing. I'm not trying to get into a pissing match.

We both agree the 5.0 is superior to the 2v. I'm just saying for what it costs to swap a 5.0 in, you can have a 2v putting out more power. Is it as cool as having a 5.0 swapped in an SN-95? No. But as far as having a forged engine with more power available, to me it makes sense from a cost standpoint. If money wasn't an issue, then I'm sure a lot of us would do the 5.0 swap and throw some boost in on top of it.

So...:SNSign:

 

[Gearbanger 101]

ANYWAYS ALL WE ARE SAYING IS THE 5.0 WOULD COST A LOT OF MONEY TO SWAP IN TO A SN95!! AND YOU CAN MAKE GREAT POWER WITH THE 4.6L FOR LESS!! like I said before if you want to roll agenst my 4.6 with a 62mm turbo on a stock engine bring it! Oh btw i've been running 14lbs of boost this week, no issues.

You're still not getting it, but oh well.

Also on the weight of the gt 500, 600-800lbs REALLY!?! come on, my car is at full weight spare and all in my car, hell i even had tools in the car. My weight with me in it with a half tank came in at 3566lbs, and I’m sure that GT 500 is around 3900-4000lbs

2009 Shelby GT 500 curb weight 3,920lbs (dry)
Half a tank of fuel 50lbs
Average driver weight 200lbs

Total - 604lbs

Last I checked....604lbs fell somewhere between 600-800lbs. Yours being a little heavier than average with the turbo system in place and whatever tools you were carrying. So yes....REALLY!

In any case, the 2009 GT500's trap nearly 120mph in stock trim. If this one in fact did have 530rwhp like you say and not the 450-470rwhp a stock one would dyno at, you most certainly beat the driver....not the car.

In any case....penis measuring wasn't the point of this comparison, so feel free to put yours away. We get it....your car is fast.

OH one more thing my car has welllllllllll over 100,000 miles on it, bet I can put another 100,000 on it. I think the turbo will go before the engine does.

I suppose that remains to be seen. Let’s hope you're right.

PS heres another video of me killing 3 cars running slicks, also an evo off the line and ran my best 60ft of 1.77 ON STREET TIRES W/STOCK 3.27 GEARS AND AXLES!!

YouTube - Turbo 4.6 mustang eats all

What is it exactly you're trying to compensate for here?

Who gives a flying felt hat that your car is quick with a power adder? It had damn well better be a hairdryer under the hood. Show me anyone who stated otherwise? The only one here I see arguing that point is you. Really...what does it prove? I mean, if video's are what you want, I can dig up a couple of video's of '11 GT's weighing as much, if not more than your car, running anywhere from half, to nearly a full second quicker than you are in N/A form without ever pulling the valve covers off of the engine. One of them is even an automatic. But again...what does that prove?

 

[Deleted member 38176]

It's always interesting to see people argue with Gearbanger regarding Mustang tech. Gearbanger is notorious on SN for knowing a thing or two about stangs.

 

[sneaky98gt]

It's always interesting to see people argue with Gearbanger regarding Mustang tech. Gearbanger is notorious on SN for knowing a thing or two about stangs.

The problem is that everyone is agreeing with Gearbanger. EVERYONE here has acknowledged that the Coyote is far superior to pretty much any motor previously put in a Mustang, especially a 2 valve. YES, the 5.0 is a far more efficient motor. YES, the 5.0 is much stronger in stock form than a 2 valve 4.6. YES, the car that motor goes in is much more refined, better handling, more comfortable car. YES, it comes with a nice warranty. We all agree with those points. No one here is debating any of that.

The only point that BurningRubber and Tank_567 is making is that it would be much more cost efficient to build and boost an existing 4.6 motor than swap in a new 5.0 and boost it. The price of $17,000 has come up several times as a minimum cost it would take to swap in 5.0 and boost it to the level of around 600 rwhp. (I would prefer getting the entire new car, but that would be $30,000+ and even further illustrate our point). For $17k, you can build one hellacious 2 valve. Here, I'll break it down. I'm leaving drivetrain and labor out of it because I'm assuming it would be about the same for either.

MMR1000 5.0 stroker with all the goodies: $4000
Ported and polished (by MMR) Trickflow heads: $3000
Custom cams and required upgrades: $1000
Intake and required upgrades: $1000
Big turbo or Procharger: $6000

That totals a very liberal $15000, which leaves $2000 for miscellaneous stuff and a tune. I'm not particularly knowledgeable in terms of big horsepower builds, but I suspect that setup would make 800+ rwhp with plenty of room for more. A 600 rwhp Coyote would not stand a snowball's chance in hell of keeping up with this motor in terms of power.

I am not saying that this motor will be more fuel efficient than a 5.0. I am not saying that this motor would be comparable for daily driving. I do not care that we are comparing a built motor to a stock motor. All I am saying (and BurningRubber and tank_567) is that, dollar for dollar, you can build a faster 2 valve motor much more powerful than you can buy a new 5.0 and boost it.

Now do not misunderstand me, Gearbanger. I know how much technical knowledge you have and how well you can get it across, and for that I must give you the utmost respect. I agree with about 99% of your points on any topic, including this one. The new 5.0 is the best motor and the best car that Ford has ever built. But to suggest that I can't build and boost a 2 valve to make more power for the same $17k it would cost to swap in a stock 5.0 and put a base model blower on it is just silly. That's the only point any of us here are making.

 

[tank_567]

It's always interesting to see people argue with Gearbanger regarding Mustang tech. Gearbanger is notorious on SN for knowing a thing or two about stangs.

I think I know a thing or two as well, just because you have been on the forum for sometime doesnt make you a god damn know it all.I've been working on mods for years and years now, on my fourth mustang, All my family at one point or another has owned a stang or two, also my brother builds mods every day of the week @ a mod mustang shop. Im down at the shop helping about every other weekend building engines, working on mods, watch these cars being dyno'd/tuned, learning more and more, but no I dont know **** ya got me... Any Dumbass can get onto google and find a thread somewhere and say well I ran this or I made that with this super charger, but what I've seen at the shop and at the track always seems to be different.... If It's On The Internet, It Must Be True!

Who gives a flying felt hat that your car is quick with a power adder? It had damn well better be a hairdryer under the hood. Show me anyone who stated otherwise? The only one here I see arguing that point is you. Really...what does it prove? I mean, if video's are what you want, I can dig up a couple of video's of '11 GT's weighing as much, if not more than your car, running anywhere from half, to nearly a full second quicker than you are in N/A form without ever pulling the valve covers off of the engine. One of them is even an automatic. But again...what does that prove?

I have too, I ran those times on street tires, with stock gears. **** with slicks an auto, with gears I could run the same times too. So whats your point??

 

[BurningRubber]

The problem is that everyone is agreeing with Gearbanger. EVERYONE here has acknowledged that the Coyote is far superior to pretty much any motor previously put in a Mustang, especially a 2 valve. YES, the 5.0 is a far more efficient motor. YES, the 5.0 is much stronger in stock form than a 2 valve 4.6. YES, the car that motor goes in is much more refined, better handling, more comfortable car. YES, it comes with a nice warranty. We all agree with those points. No one here is debating any of that.

The only point that BurningRubber and Tank_567 is making is that it would be much more cost efficient to build and boost an existing 4.6 motor than swap in a new 5.0 and boost it. The price of $17,000 has come up several times as a minimum cost it would take to swap in 5.0 and boost it to the level of around 600 rwhp. (I would prefer getting the entire new car, but that would be $30,000+ and even further illustrate our point). For $17k, you can build one hellacious 2 valve. Here, I'll break it down. I'm leaving drivetrain and labor out of it because I'm assuming it would be about the same for either.

MMR1000 5.0 stroker with all the goodies: $4000
Ported and polished (by MMR) Trickflow heads: $3000
Custom cams and required upgrades: $1000
Intake and required upgrades: $1000
Big turbo or Procharger: $6000

That totals a very liberal $15000, which leaves $2000 for miscellaneous stuff and a tune. I'm not particularly knowledgeable in terms of big horsepower builds, but I suspect that setup would make 800+ rwhp with plenty of room for more. A 600 rwhp Coyote would not stand a snowball's chance in hell of keeping up with this motor in terms of power.

I am not saying that this motor will be more fuel efficient than a 5.0. I am not saying that this motor would be comparable for daily driving. I do not care that we are comparing a built motor to a stock motor. All I am saying (and BurningRubber and tank_567) is that, dollar for dollar, you can build a faster 2 valve motor much more powerful than you can buy a new 5.0 and boost it.

Now do not misunderstand me, Gearbanger. I know how much technical knowledge you have and how well you can get it across, and for that I must give you the utmost respect. I agree with about 99% of your points on any topic, including this one. The new 5.0 is the best motor and the best car that Ford has ever built. But to suggest that I can't build and boost a 2 valve to make more power for the same $17k it would cost to swap in a stock 5.0 and put a base model blower on it is just silly. That's the only point any of us here are making.

If there was a high five icon, i'd use it. But until then...

I think I know a thing or two as well, just because you have been on the forum for sometime doesnt make you a god damn know it all.

Exactly. Not saying that GearBanger doesn't know what he's talking about, but everyone has something different to bring to the table. What one person experiences isn't always true for the rest of the crowd.

I had a friend spend $9k just to build a 2v, but you can get a built shortblock to your door for $3k... or a built longblock for around $5k depending on what you have done.

Then you have people that re-use their block, grab a Cobra crank for $150, clean it up, buy bearings, get a set of rods and pistons from an 03/04 Cobra, and have a sub-1k shortblock that will take more than they're going to throw at it.

So the good thing about all this is, you can get a great idea of what could go on as far as a build concerning costs, what will and won't make power, how much power an engine will hold before it bursts, etc. As long as everyone understands that what goes for one doesn't go for all, then we're good. But when you have someone shouting that a 2v CAN'T survive 500rwhp, yet there are those that do, things get twisted around.

But yeah, the internet... serious business for real.