I asked about this a few weeks ago. My car will sometimes just stall and I'll let it rest and it will start up like nothing was wrong. On my way to get a new clutch installed I was cruising at 2k then the rpms dropped to 1k for about 3 sec., then popped back to normal. Then, I get a call from the tranny guy saying that it wouldn't turn over. What is up with this car! I replaced the TFI coil, Fuel filter, replaced the battery cables, and put injector cleaner in it and still this problem. Whats my next step guys? 95 gt 5speed vert.
The problem Continues!!!
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MLC Stang
Founding Member
Pretty sure I know what your problem is. Here's some info I've posted before on this issue...
I’ve gone through this exact same problem with my 95 GT.
It’s the PIP module in your distributor. That stands for Profile Ignition Pickup module. It’s also called a Hall Effect sensor, because that’s the name of the solid state device that makes the PIP work. And, the Ford parts books call it the distributor Stator, because it’s the part that doesn’t move. The rotor (a round disk with a window cut in it for each of the eight cylinders in the engine) spins through it.
It is the equivalent to a crank sensor on a Ford modular 4.6 liter V8. Because our cars still have distributors on them this sensor must be in the distributor, not on the crankshaft.
When each window passes the Hall Effect sensor in the PIP module, the permanent magnet in the PIP module causes a voltage to flow through the Hall Effect sensor. That voltage is read by the PCM (the EEC-IV main computer) and tells it exactly when each cylinder is at base timing (e.g. 10 degrees BTDC). Armed with that info, the PCM can tell the TFI Ignition module to switch the ignition coil to fire each spark plug at the right time.
The problem with Hall Effect sensors is that they are extremely temperature sensitive devices. In extreme duty environments like sitting on top of a car engine, the cylinder heads of which typically get to around 230 to 240 degrees F, the sensors require sophisticated temperature compensation circuitry to provide a constant (and accurate) signal over a temperature range from about -40 degrees to +240 degrees F. Since they have an analog output (that looks like a sine wave), they also require clipping circuitry to make the analog signal look like a nice clean digital (ON or OFF) signal to the PCM.
It does get worse over time, and it’s really not safe to have your car die on you in the middle of traffic! After just a couple of weeks mine was crapping out at least 3 or 4 times a day just like you reached over and turned off the key. Really not safe! The thing is temperature sensitive, so once it starts to degrade it will just continue to get worse.
The part only costs about $50.00 at the Ford dealer. The bummer is that the distributor has to be removed from the car to install the thing! The sensor portion slips over the center shaft of the distributor, so the drive gear has to be removed from the bottom of the distributor to install it.
Replace your PIP module, and you’re good to go!
Install Instructions:
Unless you have had a distributor apart before and re-installed one and got your ignition timing right, you should have someone else do this. You can spend all day getting the distributor back in right. If you don’t, your timing is hosed!
The drive gear on the bottom of the distributor shaft is held on with a pin (metal shaft) that’s inserted through the gear and into the distributor shaft. You have to take a punch and drive the pin out, then pull off the gear with a gear puller if it’s on really tight. Don’t hit it with a hammer!
The stator (PIP module) is inside the distributor case (the big part at the top that the distributor cap mounts on), BUT it is in the very BOTTOM of that part! When you pull the entire distributor shaft up and out of the body after you have removed the drive gear from the bottom, you will see where the old one mounts in the bottom of the distributor bowl (case). You just can’t get access to that area without pulling the entire innards of the distributor out.
Once you have the new PIP module installed in the bowl, you have to press the drive gear back on the shaft and re-install the pin that holds it in place. If you don't have a press of any kind to get the drive gear back on the shaft, you need to get a very large nut or old bearing you don't want to help install it. Put the drive gear on the shaft and then put the large nut or bearing over the shaft on top of the gear. Now you can smack the nut/bearing with a hammer to drive the gear back on the shaft without damaging the gear.
That's the basics of it. Knowing that, you can decide if you want to tackle the job yourself, pay a shop to do it for you, or buy a different distributor to drop in.
Hope that helps.
I’ve gone through this exact same problem with my 95 GT.
It’s the PIP module in your distributor. That stands for Profile Ignition Pickup module. It’s also called a Hall Effect sensor, because that’s the name of the solid state device that makes the PIP work. And, the Ford parts books call it the distributor Stator, because it’s the part that doesn’t move. The rotor (a round disk with a window cut in it for each of the eight cylinders in the engine) spins through it.
It is the equivalent to a crank sensor on a Ford modular 4.6 liter V8. Because our cars still have distributors on them this sensor must be in the distributor, not on the crankshaft.
When each window passes the Hall Effect sensor in the PIP module, the permanent magnet in the PIP module causes a voltage to flow through the Hall Effect sensor. That voltage is read by the PCM (the EEC-IV main computer) and tells it exactly when each cylinder is at base timing (e.g. 10 degrees BTDC). Armed with that info, the PCM can tell the TFI Ignition module to switch the ignition coil to fire each spark plug at the right time.
The problem with Hall Effect sensors is that they are extremely temperature sensitive devices. In extreme duty environments like sitting on top of a car engine, the cylinder heads of which typically get to around 230 to 240 degrees F, the sensors require sophisticated temperature compensation circuitry to provide a constant (and accurate) signal over a temperature range from about -40 degrees to +240 degrees F. Since they have an analog output (that looks like a sine wave), they also require clipping circuitry to make the analog signal look like a nice clean digital (ON or OFF) signal to the PCM.
It does get worse over time, and it’s really not safe to have your car die on you in the middle of traffic! After just a couple of weeks mine was crapping out at least 3 or 4 times a day just like you reached over and turned off the key. Really not safe! The thing is temperature sensitive, so once it starts to degrade it will just continue to get worse.
The part only costs about $50.00 at the Ford dealer. The bummer is that the distributor has to be removed from the car to install the thing! The sensor portion slips over the center shaft of the distributor, so the drive gear has to be removed from the bottom of the distributor to install it.
Replace your PIP module, and you’re good to go!
Install Instructions:
Unless you have had a distributor apart before and re-installed one and got your ignition timing right, you should have someone else do this. You can spend all day getting the distributor back in right. If you don’t, your timing is hosed!
The drive gear on the bottom of the distributor shaft is held on with a pin (metal shaft) that’s inserted through the gear and into the distributor shaft. You have to take a punch and drive the pin out, then pull off the gear with a gear puller if it’s on really tight. Don’t hit it with a hammer!
The stator (PIP module) is inside the distributor case (the big part at the top that the distributor cap mounts on), BUT it is in the very BOTTOM of that part! When you pull the entire distributor shaft up and out of the body after you have removed the drive gear from the bottom, you will see where the old one mounts in the bottom of the distributor bowl (case). You just can’t get access to that area without pulling the entire innards of the distributor out.
Once you have the new PIP module installed in the bowl, you have to press the drive gear back on the shaft and re-install the pin that holds it in place. If you don't have a press of any kind to get the drive gear back on the shaft, you need to get a very large nut or old bearing you don't want to help install it. Put the drive gear on the shaft and then put the large nut or bearing over the shaft on top of the gear. Now you can smack the nut/bearing with a hammer to drive the gear back on the shaft without damaging the gear.
That's the basics of it. Knowing that, you can decide if you want to tackle the job yourself, pay a shop to do it for you, or buy a different distributor to drop in.
Hope that helps.
DMAN302
My mom says thanks for the pearl necklace.
MSD units are commonly found to create more problems than they help, best option is a reman stock dist. from local parts store for 100 dollars...
BlackVert
15 Year Member
FWIW, a bad PIP will NOT keep your car from turning over. That would be a separate issue.
A bad PIP will keep you from having spark and injector pulsing. If missing both, chances are it's the PIP. If you have one or the other, look elsewhere.
Something to ponder: given the lack of cranking and the cut out issue, your ignition switch might be on the fritz.
Good luck.
A bad PIP will keep you from having spark and injector pulsing. If missing both, chances are it's the PIP. If you have one or the other, look elsewhere.
Something to ponder: given the lack of cranking and the cut out issue, your ignition switch might be on the fritz.
Good luck.
Adam95GT
New Member
Seriously just get a ditsy out of another mustanng and try it out and see if it makes a difference... i know ditsys on the probes are a huge problem because of the high heat engine bay.... but it does sound like a spark problem
94-302-vert
Active Member
Have you ruled out plugs, wires, cap, rotor?
My car had the same symptoms when I bought it, quick tune-up all better now...
My car had the same symptoms when I bought it, quick tune-up all better now...
MLC Stang
Founding Member
Quote above is why I said most likely a bad PIP module in the distributor. That's the classic symptom of a bad PIP Module.a-spec FD said:
The "won't crank" issue is another completely separate issue. Follow the advice of others who have replied on that issue.
You'll get it sorted out.
Adam95GT
New Member
Alot of people have been having problems with the dizzys lately. Me included. I changed mine today.
Adam95GT
New Member
gunfish
Member
My car was doing the same thing. Bought a remanufactured distributor from Autozone about 6 months ago, it hasn't died since.
Not a good feeling when the car dies on you at 60mph while merging onto the freeway!!
Not a good feeling when the car dies on you at 60mph while merging onto the freeway!!
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