The SN65 project car

[limey66]

What responses are you getting for the other forums you post on? I'm fairly sure it'll be similar to those here. Besides the effectiveness of placing the cooler there, you have to consider the implications of an oil leak here as one of the guys a few posts up said.

My opinion (if you want it) is to place it in front of the radiator - the small amount of slightly warmer air passing through the rad will just pull in the electric fan sooner.

Every other call you've made on this project has been sound. This one could be alittle suspect...sorry man.

 

[Edbert]

I know we have some physics majors here, I've seen them post on other topics, maybe they can help here. But to my layman's mind it only seems logical that whatever heat the oil cooler takes out of the oil will be greater than any heat the oil cooler causes to transfer back into the coolant due to warmer air hitting a small part of the radiator. It seems that even a 1/2 inch gap would cause a huge drop in the efficacy of the transfer.

I guess that is fluid dynamics not physics but you get what I mean.

Don't take any of this the wrong way Bob, I (we) are trying to be constructive.

 

[SN65]

Hi All,

There has been a lot of discussion in regard to the oil cooler installation as far as location goes. Most are concerned with damage and others concerned with air flow. We have reviewed the situation over and over again, but I feel that we have the situation under control. I will be posting photos of the finished installation once complete and then we can all critique it.

Wayne is moving on to the front fenders. He is positioning the flares and working out the design of the leading and trailing edges. Wayne and Dave came into my office yesterday and asked about the lower front valances that were available for the Eleanor kit. They were wondering how that lower valance would look on this car. They said that their jobs would be a whole hell of a lot easier if they could use the molded ends that blended into the front edge of the front fenders.

Well... To make a long story short, we decided not to use the Eleanor front end and to stick with our original plan. Wayne will fab the leading and trailing edges of the flares. We will use the factory front valance (modified with vents for the heat exchanger). Also, to answer a few other questions, we are going to use the factory chrome bumpers front and back. Some argue that a car of this type should have some type of spoiler or a Shelby front valance. I can see their points, but I just can't envision a spoiler that will do the car justice. Also, while I like Shelby clones, I just could not bear to put a Shelby front valance on this car. I know, I know. Using the Shelby "R" style front valance would save me tons of work. No bumper brackets to fab, etc, etc. And we would have plenty of air flow for the radiator and heat exchanger. BUT, I am going to resist the knee jerk reaction to take the easy way out. I think this car should stand on it's own merit. I could not stand it if people walked away from the car thinking It was some altered Shelby clone.

Anyway... It is coming up on 8AM and I have to get to work.

Catch ya'll l8r

 

[reenmachine]

I guess that is fluid dynamics not physics but you get what I mean.

Man, I'm getting flashbacks of "Heat Transfer" -- by far the hardest class of my whole ME degree.

Also, to answer a few other questions, we are going to use the factory chrome bumpers front and back. Some argue that a car of this type should have some type of spoiler or a Shelby front valance. I can see their points, but I just can't envision a spoiler that will do the car justice. Also, while I like Shelby clones, I just could not bear to put a Shelby front valance on this car.

I agree completely. Keep the lines clean.

 

[SN65]

What responses are you getting for the other forums you post on? I'm fairly sure it'll be similar to those here. Besides the effectiveness of placing the cooler there, you have to consider the implications of an oil leak here as one of the guys a few posts up said.

My opinion (if you want it) is to place it in front of the radiator - the small amount of slightly warmer air passing through the rad will just pull in the electric fan sooner.

Every other call you've made on this project has been sound. This one could be alittle suspect...sorry man.

Hi L,

This forum is by far the most active in regard to mechanical issues. Corner Carvers runs a close second. Others are hit and miss.

I know that the location of the oil cooler is not optimal for a number of reasons. But, once we are finished, we will have eliminated any concerns in regard to damage of any kind and (even in this wacky location) it should be more efficient than the factory cooler.

If you have concern over damage to the cooler, wait till you see the oil filter location.

In closing I would like to say that the people from this site have been increadably helpfull in regard to every aspect of this project. It would not be the car that it is today without all the input recieved here.

Thank you all very much.

Bob

 

[reenmachine]

In closing I would like to say that the people from this site have been increadably helpfull in regard to every aspect of this project. It would not be the car that it is today without all the input recieved here.

Thank you all very much.

Bob

I feel the same way and have gotten tons of good input here myself. Please don't think I was crawling up your ass on this one -- just trying to be helpful. Free advice is usually worth what you paid for it, you know.

 

[SN65]

I feel the same way and have gotten tons of good input here myself. Please don't think I was crawling up your ass on this one -- just trying to be helpful. Free advice is usually worth what you paid for it, you know.

Hi Reen

If you or anyone on this site truly wish to "crawl up my butt", feel free. I can screw up and get out of line as much as the next guy. Sometimes I need a reality check.

In fact, if you, or anyone else for that mater, think I am making a mistake, I expect to be slapped around. I think that (after the continued support of this project) everyone on this forum has the right to say whatever they feel about the project.

Stangnet rocks!!!

 

[krash kendall]

Since you have decided to sheild it in the wheelwell. we might as well move on with some constructive ideas to support this decision.

Here's mine:

Instead of mesh, how about making an inner panel with louvers that have the openings in the direction of the rotation so as to deflect debris/spray and a fan? It wouldn't have the tendency to clog up and would provide good flow. If you don't have a louver punch then a siding shop will. Or, you could cut the panel out of an old locker door. Paint it the same colour as your wheelwells and your golden.

 

[mustangman70]

Good point, a fender shield of some sort with gills would be a good way to shield the cooler and yet still alow air flow

 

[Stang2Man]

Speaking of gills, are you still going with the Boss 302 style stripes?? If so, you could make a small vent on each fender just for symetry, that would allow air to flow across the cooler, if it's located where I"m thinking it is anyway. I know alot of the ricers these days are doing the same things with Z3 style fenders, but this would be purely functional, except for the passenger side, hehe.

 

[SN65]

Hi All,

Wayne worked late last night on the drivers side fender flare. Before I left for the night (undedicated part timer that I am ) I helped Wayne set the suspension to get the correct attitude. I also established where I wanted him to position the top of the wheel opening. I had already gone through this exercise once before (when the car was on the frame rack on blocks) so all of the "rough" layout lines were pretty well completed at that time.

In the photos below you can see how we positioned the flare, marked up the panel, segmented it and screwed the flare to the fender with sheet metal screws. The positioning of the flare is quite difficult on the Mustang front fender. The problem area is where the fender intersects the bodyline just above the wheel. The flare has to be trimmed back so that the outside edge of the flare ends up exactly where you want it (in relation to the outside edge of the tire).

All Wayne has to do now is form the metal at the leading and trailing ends of the flare. Then we can bond the flare to the fender, finish off the inside surfaces, undercoat the fender, add a layer of fiberglass to the outside edge of the flare, fill and sand and fill and sand and fill and sand....

Catch ya'll l8r

 

[xj220]

Looks great. I assume the little notch in the front of the flare between the flare and the fender is for the bumper.

 

[SN65]

Speaking of gills, are you still going with the Boss 302 style stripes?? If so, you could make a small vent on each fender just for symetry, that would allow air to flow across the cooler, if it's located where I"m thinking it is anyway. I know alot of the ricers these days are doing the same things with Z3 style fenders, but this would be purely functional, except for the passenger side, hehe.

Hi S2M,

We are debating these two topics right now.

As far as graphics, we are going to mock up the Boss style stripe after all the bodywork is complete (the car in primer). That will show us exactly what the overall effect will be like.

We are also debating fender extractors (vents) to not only to improve air flow in the wheel housing for the oil cooler, but as a styling decision. We are struggling with the flare contures on the trailing edge of the fender. If we extend the flare to the fender the same way we did on the quarters, that section of the front flare will be about 1" larger than any section of the rear flare. Wayne says that it will look funny, weird, stupid, etc... because the top section of the front flare is about 1" smaller than any section of the rear flare.

We are going to discuss it more today and make a decision.

Catch ya'll l8r.

 

[limey66]

Since you have decided to sheild it in the wheelwell. we might as well move on with some constructive ideas to support this decision.

Here's mine:

Instead of mesh, how about making an inner panel with louvers that have the openings in the direction of the rotation so as to deflect debris/spray and a fan? It wouldn't have the tendency to clog up and would provide good flow. If you don't have a louver punch then a siding shop will. Or, you could cut the panel out of an old locker door. Paint it the same colour as your wheelwells and your golden.

This has got to be a good idea (better than mesh). A small fan (like a heavy duty PC fan - not sure how it would survive the elements though) would be just enough to purge the hot air that would collect in the fenderwell.

If he uses a peice of locker door, what technique would you reccomend for removing the layers of girly pictures taped to the back? That's really gonna affect the finish!!

 

[SN65]

This has got to be a good idea (better than mesh). A small fan (like a heavy duty PC fan - not sure how it would survive the elements though) would be just enough to purge the hot air that would collect in the fenderwell.

If he uses a peice of locker door, what technique would you reccomend for removing the layers of girly pictures taped to the back? That's really gonna affect the finish!!

Hi L,

While I like the above idea (especially the girly picture part) , I think that we will most likely take the following path.

For protection of the oil cooler, we were thinking of the following material.

http://www.mcmaster.com/ Item #9220T431

It is a heavy gage wire mesh with approx 50% open area. While it will restrict flow by 50% (where the air actually goes through it) we are going to position it so that it will protect the cooler from debris without restricting air flow.

Bob

 

[limey66]

Like all your other ideas, you've got something in your minds eye that we (I ?) can't quite visualise until it's done (like the hood for example).

Lets take a look when it's done.

 

[1320stang]

Bob, before you set your sights on McMaster, check out McNichols site, I believe they'll have a bigger selection. http://www.mcnichols.com They specialize in perforated metals. I was once modifying a grille for a Nissan low rider truck for a guy and contacted McNichols as I didn't want a full sheet of material as the piece I needed was about 36"x5". He said they have "off-fall" from when they're sheering bigger jobs. This is just scrap pieces and they usually keep some of the bigger stuff and sell it pretty cheap. Plus they have a location in the Chicago area. http://www.mcnichols.com/about/contact/branches/chicago.htm

 

[65mistress]

Silly question for those who are more educated in fluid dynamics, what is the possibility of using a heat sync(sp?) style setup for the oil then you could put is in the fender well without any mesh and it would look kind of cool...

 

[68rustang]

The radiator is a heatsink. But I think what you are talking about is like what is used on the CPU of a computer. The thinnner the material the faster the heat transfer.

 

[limey66]

An oil cooler as we know it is a small radiator i.e. lots of small (ish) tubes with crinkly copper fins on each one - this is the most efficient form of heat transfer, with lots of surface area to get the heat from the oil to the metal components, and then lots of surface area to get the heat from the metal to the air.

A heat sink, in this application is not a bad idea, as it would be better protected from damage, however, I don't know if anyone makes one. To get enough heat out of the oil, you'd need a lot of aluminium fins in the oil, and then a lot to exchange to the air around it. You couldn't, for example, strap a bit of heat sink extrusion to the rad, as you'd get poor transfer from the rad to the sink.

Maybe there might be a marine type of heatsink that works this way, but they normally transfer to water, which is more efficient.

Good idea though.