The SN65 project car

[krash kendall]

That front valance is just killer! What a great alternative to the (although mean looking) unstylish shelby valance for those of us that require a front plate by law.

 

[SN65]

That front valance is just killer! What a great alternative to the (although mean looking) unstylish shelby valance for those of us that require a front plate by law.

Hi KK,

Thanks for the kind words. I agree with you. We worked this front valance up in an attempt to resolve those very two issues. While nice on a Shelby clone, we just could not bear using a Shelby front valance on our project. Also, we wanted to maintaint the licence plate mounting area.

I know that the current trend is to eliminate and smooth everything down, but I think that that approach would have been just to easy. I believe that it is a lot easyer to just eliminate fetures such as door handles, locks, windshield wipers, licence plate brackets, etc... than it is to come up with a good design that keeps these types of features.

Catch you l8r.

 

[Hack]

Hi All,

.......
Anyway... It did bring up an interesting topic. The general feeling was that, even if this car came out absolutely perfect, it would not be given a second look for this award.

First off, it is completely different than any car that has ever won the award. They are all polished chrome, SS lines, shaved, frenched, blank firewall, minimalist street rod type cars. Ours is built to mimic factory construction. Wires everywhere, factory connectors, factory labels, etc... We would be more successful in a concourse competition than this type of show car setting.

Second, we are not one of the big name shops or builders. I think that there is a certain mind set at these events. If Foose has a car there, he will make the finals, regardless of the entry.

Third, We have not spent 1/2 mill on this project. This also seams to have an impact on the judges.

While these are all good points, I feel that we may generate some interest if only due to the unique aspect of this project. The fact that it is totally different from the projects normally given the nod might even work in our favor, that is of course if creativity has anything to do with the competition at all.

What do you think??? Will a project of this nature be given any consideration or will the judges keep picking cars that are more of the same???

Here are my thoughts on this.

I think that very serious competitions might not grant a prize to someone who has never entered before and who might not enter again. I think that if you want to win first place in a national competition against the best in the nation, you will need to start by building first-class entries every year for several years. You need to build a history with these people that you do nothing but top notch work.

They are risking their reputation every year when they hand out the prize. They don't want to hand out a prize to someone who did one terrific car. They want to hand out the prize to someone who does only the best work on everything they touch.

You might be that guy, but you're going to have to prove it to them. Maybe it doesn't seem fair, but I would run it that way.

Oh, and your point about having used OEM stuff is a good one. That's a tougher one. It depends on their opinions of what is better. Using OEM wiring and components does not involve creativity, but it is a complex task that could be done well or poorly.

 

[reenmachine]

Hi All,

It looks like our first show is going to be the Detroit Autorama coming up this March. When I told the guy's in the shop, they said, Ohhhh, maybe we will win the Riddler.....

What do you think??? Will a project of this nature be given any consideration or will the judges keep picking cars that are more of the same???

I've got to take issue with the "more of the same" comment. Anymore, the Ridler Award goes to truly "coach built" cars -- creations where literally every single part of the car is custom fabricated. Not only that, but done in a way that reflects techniques and design approaches that are new and innovative. Look at the Foose car that won for '05. The entire steel body is hand-formed to an original Foose design. You could spend days looking over the car and keep noticing the kind of details that make you say, "damn, that's slick." Even more impressive are the things you'd never notice until someone points them out to you.

A car that's 100% custom, by definition, isn't "more of the same."

If you actually look back at the decades of Ridler winners, you'll see every type of rod, custom, race car, etc.

It's not that a car has to have cost $300k-$500k to be respected or whatever, it's just that it takes that kind of money to have a car built to the standard it takes to win.

All that being said, I don't know why you'd care about the Ridler anyway -- it's not our scene. Yes, the SN65 is built to a very high standard, but its real beauty is in its functionality and driveability, which is way more impressive to me than a fluid-free trailer queen.

Since I'm already long-winded, I'll share an old story about how flash and dazzle usually triumphs over engineering.

Back in 1991 or so, we built a '66 Mustang convertible we called the Bosstang. Full rotisserie resto, NOS Boss 302 engine, T-5, trick suspension, 4-wheel power discs, custom gauges, etc. The car was perfect in every way, including how it drove. The point is that we built it to look almost completely factory under the hood, etc. The amount of time and labor that went into it was huge, and this was pretty much before "restomod" was accepted.

Anyway, we had it in an MCA National show, where we thought it was an easy lock to take 1st in the modified class. To make a long story short, we got beaten by an unremarkable car that was basically stock but with every bolt-on dress-up piece made. When I asked the judges for some constructive criticism, they told me that I need to add a lot of chrome under the hood.

All of the engineering and custom craftsmanship was lost on everyone -- our lack of "bling-bling" was our downfall. The SN65 may meet a similar fate, but it will truly be appreciated and admired by those who are capable of recognizing what it actually is, including the mags and, more importantly, those who will pay you handsomely to build more.

 

[gonzothegreat]

we need more news, I can't take it anymore; Bob I need my fix of SN65 please.

 

[urban96]

wow i wish i could find a local painter that would take such great care of my car when it comes time for a respray


this project is very amazing, hats off to you guys i seen it the other morning and sat here for like 2 hours reading everything.. coming along very nicely

 

[SN65]

I've got to take issue with the "more of the same" comment. Anymore, the Ridler Award goes to truly "coach built" cars -- creations where literally every single part of the car is custom fabricated. Not only that, but done in a way that reflects techniques and design approaches that are new and innovative. Look at the Foose car that won for '05. The entire steel body is hand-formed to an original Foose design. You could spend days looking over the car and keep noticing the kind of details that make you say, "damn, that's slick." Even more impressive are the things you'd never notice until someone points them out to you.

A car that's 100% custom, by definition, isn't "more of the same."

If you actually look back at the decades of Ridler winners, you'll see every type of rod, custom, race car, etc.

SNIP...

Hi Reen,

1981 34
1982 34
1983 29
1984 34
1985 33
1986 86
1987 34
1988 32
1989 34
1990 32
1991 33
1992 32
1993 40
1994 37
1995 92
1996 37
1997 32
1998 33
1999 32
2000 33
2001 49
2002 35
2003 34
2004 37
2005 36

Here is a list of ridler awards past out over the past 25 years. Only two winners from the 40's. None from the 50's. None from the 60's. None from the 70's. One from the 80's. One from the 90's.

20 from the 30's. 15 of those are the basic 32 - 34 street rod.

This is what I mean when I say more of the same. I understand that the recent winners are exceptionally crafted works of art. That is not my issue. My issue is "why can't someone build a different type of car and win"

Are all the really creative people in the world only building early 30's era cars???

 

[reenmachine]

"why can't someone build a different type of car and win"

Even the most attractive, talented, fit, intelligent, articulate, and world-peace desiring man in the world couldn't win the Miss America pageant.

There are two forces at work here. There is an inertia weighted towards the early street rods because they are the institution. We're the new kids on the block -- the primary focus of the custom car building world over the 50-year period before the 90s was the '32 Ford. One reason so many of them have won the Ridler is because a similarly disproportionate number of the entrants have been '32 Fords.

The second reason makes the thing a vicious circle. Since all of the top builders see the early cars winning every year, it's safer to invest the huge amount of cash into something mainstream. This is a HUGE marketing opportunity for these guys. You know that Foose could build a muscle car every bit as creative and perfect as his Ridler cars, but he doesn't because winning is too important for business to try something radical.

The tides are changing, however. Good Guys for example has been quite progressive in recognizing the shift to wonderfully modified muscle cars, and many of their very top awards have gone to such in recent years.

 

[SN65]

Even the most attractive, talented, fit, intelligent, articulate, and world-peace desiring man in the world couldn't win the Miss America pageant.

SNIP...

Hi Reen,

You always know how to put a smile on my face.

But... Wasn't it just a few years ago that this question came up at the miss universe pagent? Wasn't one of the contestants previously a man???

 

[reenmachine]

Hi Reen,

You always know how to put a smile on my face.

But... Wasn't it just a few years ago that this question came up at the miss universe pagent? Wasn't one of the contestants previously a man???

I dunno, but I'm reminded of the guy who sued Hooters for discrimination after he couldn't get a job as a waiter...

 

[03CrazyStang]

:Teh-Win:

 

[SN65]

Hi All,

I hope you have all had a good thanksgiving. Mine was great, except for the fact that I started a flame war over at 3.8.

I stumbled across a stupid comment that someone made about a year ago and just had to respond. It must have been the booze talking (I had just finished a couple of glasses of a nice zinfandel followed by a couple shots of grappa), because I normally would have just ignored it. Anyway, I should have let sleeping dogs lie. I would have been better off hitting a hornets nest with a stick.

Anyway....

The car is now in the booth awaiting sealer, color and clear. While we were starting to apply the sealer, we started to get a few random fisheyes. It appears we did not wipe it down as good as we thought we had. So now we have to sand out the fisheyes and wipe down the car again. This time doing it right. Oh well. Wayne just got into the office so it is time to get to work.

Catch ya'll l8r

 

[SN65]

Hi All,

Color is going down this very second. Looking good so far.

 

[SN65]

Hi All,

The clear is going down as I am typing this. Lots of new photos at the website.

 

[krash kendall]

Way to build suspense Hitchcock!

 

[ncsutp]

Just wondering what type of paint you are using on the plastic interior panels. Looks great!!

 

[65mistress]

Dear Santa,

I've been a really really good boy this year, and I've made sure that I've done all my chores and been really nice to people who weren't too awfully dumb, so I think that I deserve the SN65 and one from Reenmachine.

Thanks
Tommy

 

[SN65]

Hi All,

The paint is down. I need to help Wayne prep some small pieces that are yet to be finished. After that, all we (Wayne) have to do now is wet sand everything with 600 one last time, give it two more coats of clear and the painting is done.

Right now, I need to go wash off the liquid mask (we coated the engine bay and chassis with a spray on liquid mask to keep any stray overspray off the completed areas of the car).

That is all I got for now.

Catch ya'll l8r

 

[SN65]

wow i wish i could find a local painter that would take such great care of my car when it comes time for a respray

SBIP...

Hi 96,

We would love to paint your car. We are only about a 10 to 12 hour drive away.

 

[SN65]

Just wondering what type of paint you are using on the plastic interior panels. Looks great!!

Hi N,

We use all PPG products in the shop. The interior panels are all shot with a single stage "satin" system.