the suspension is in

[Snail50]

I say again: the suspension is in.

Thanks to all on Stangnet.com who gave advice. (And thanks to 3 buds who spent an entire Saturday helping...we started at about ten AM and finished by 6:30 PM.)

Details, if anyone's interested:

Did the M+ kit with 620# drop springs, 1" front sway bar, new struts...rear was 4.5 leaf mid-mount eyes and new shocks. Poly bushing throughout. I have the rear sway bar, but couldn't do it because it was getting late.

All I have to say is wow, what an easy mod, and what a difference! Firm, but no harshess at all, but also no bounce. "confident and sporty" is a good way to describe it. It corners perfectly flat, with immediate turn in & out of corners. My loose steering is now much improved, interestingly enough. (I have the M+ "make it new" kit which I still need to install, but want to get a feel for the suspension first.)

The only difficulty was removing the rear leaf springs, and then only because my aftermarket dual exhaust was in the way of some bolts, and had to be unbolted and hung down for easier access. Fortunately, none of the bolts were seized...the front eye bolt came out without any drama whatsoever.

If any of you remember my question about the coil spring compressor, I ended up getting one of the outside types, and it worked perfectly.

I jacked the front of the car up and put it on stands, removed the tire, then jacked the lower control arm up to completely compress the coil spring. I then attached the compressor and tightened it up a few more turns. Lowered the control arm and the spring came right out. So many of you said DO NOT get the outside type, but it worked just fine, and the coil did not flex or bow out at all.

The new springs didn't need to be compressed. I set the top in place, then spun the bottom part onto the perch. Took about ten seconds.

The rear sits at almost exactly the same height (I measured) as before, but now the front is an inch higher. Before the stance was slightly nose low, the way i like it, but now it's slightly nose high, like stock.

Next mods:

Lower the front another inch w/negative wedge kit. 4 wheel disk brakes. 17" rims.

 

[NorCal66]

I'll be doing the exact same thing next weekend. One day! Nice! That's great to know, although I'll have plenty of time to work on it if things don't go as smoothly.

With what you said about the ride height I'm considering cutting part of the coil or doing the shelby drop or something...I'm going for atleast a half-inch rake and a high front is the last thing I want

I'm getting the same setup as you except with 5 leafs.

 

[bnickel]

don't forget the springs willl settle some after you've driven it a while, so don't start cutting just yet

 

[Snail50]

I'll be doing the exact same thing next weekend. One day! Nice! That's great to know, although I'll have plenty of time to work on it if things don't go as smoothly.

With what you said about the ride height I'm considering cutting part of the coil or doing the shelby drop or something...I'm going for atleast a half-inch rake and a high front is the last thing I want

I'm getting the same setup as you except with 5 leafs.

Thanks. I was surprised that we could get it all done in one day. I figured Mr. Murphy would definitely show up to cause problems.

I'd do the Shelby drop or a Negative Wedge Kit rather than cutting a coil.

 

[dodgestang]

Thanks. I was surprised that we could get it all done in one day. I figured Mr. Murphy would definitely show up to cause problems.

I'd do the Shelby drop or a Negative Wedge Kit rather than cutting a coil.

Why didn't you just do the shelby drop while you had it all apart????

It would have saved you time...now you have to rip it all apart again....anyway...the shelby drop will net you about another 1/2 down in lowering, but gain you on the steering and save you a pile of money from now buying the negative wedge stuff.

 

[Snail50]

Why didn't you just do the shelby drop while you had it all apart????

It would have saved you time...now you have to rip it all apart again....anyway...the shelby drop will net you about another 1/2 down in lowering, but gain you on the steering and save you a pile of money from now buying the negative wedge stuff.

Thanks for the advice. I want to do a 4 wheel disk conversion, and I thought that to run the big disks and 17" rims, I needed to do the neg.wedge rather than the Shelby drop. I also heard that the neg. wedge is less prone to binding than the Shelby drop.

 

[Snail50]

if I do decide to do the Shelby drop, the front was so easy to do that I doubt it will take much time to take it apart again.

 

[dodgestang]

Thanks for the advice. I want to do a 4 wheel disk conversion, and I thought that to run the big disks and 17" rims, I needed to do the neg.wedge rather than the Shelby drop. I also heard that the neg. wedge is less prone to binding than the Shelby drop.

I hear a lot of 'stuff' out there all the time.

I run drop 620 drop springs and the shelby mod with no binding and know plenty of others that have never had any problems.

As for NEEDING the neg wedge with 17s.....16 inch rims fit better on the front when you are running a wider wheel with big backspacing because the neg wedge drops the angle of the top of the ball joint to let the rim lip over it and not have interference. This problem is not there with 17s because the wheel is bigger.

 

[Snail50]

Thanks Nick.
Yeah, I hear lots of "stuff" too. So the negative wedge kit is needed with 16" rims but not 17"s?

 

[dodgestang]

Thanks Nick.
Yeah, I hear lots of "stuff" too. So the negative wedge kit is needed with 16" rims but not 17"s?

From my research on wheels I learned that if you want to run a 16x8 in the front you need the wedge kit to get the upper ball joint to 'lip' under the rim when you run alot of backspacing (which is how you get the wider tires on )....that is why many people run 16x7 on the front because of the 'rumors'. I have alot of people that run 16x8 on the front with 4.5 bs and they didn't need the negative wedge to clear.

I believe you run into problems when you try to increase the backspacing on the fronts to 16x8 with 4.75 which would be the problem cured by the neg wedge.

Looking at my chart for 65-6....every person still running drums fronts that went with a 16x8 did the shelby drop and runs 4.5 bs. The only person who didn't do the drop has factory disc which hold the wheel a fraction out further...for 67-8 I see a couple entries for 16x8 with 4.5 bs and no a arm mod with both drums and discs.

The whole point behind the negaive wedge is to correct dificencies in the factory steering geometry. The fact that it can be used to fit wheels is secondary at best to its true use (much the same was as people use the shelby drop to lower their car when in fact the lowering is just a secondary benifit to the primiary beneift of steering improvement. There is no doubt in my mind that your car would benift from a neg wedge but the question is would you ever be driving in conditions were the increase in benefit from the shelby drop to the negative wedge would be noticed by the driver. Only you can answer that but IMHO (IMHO means in my OPINION, so this is of course open to debate and I don't mind debating it because I freely admit I do not know everyting) no amount of aggresive street driving will really ever be able to take advantage of the gains from the negative wedge, while the free shelby drop offers very quantifyiable gains at a very low price. Now if you plan to opentrack the car alot, then the Negative wedge would most likely benefit you.

 

[NorCal66]

Not to hijack...but just a quickie...
Are there any disadvantages to the shelby drop? Affect the straight line performance at all?

 

[Snail50]

Good question, NorCal.

Thanks for the detail explanation, Nick. I don't plan to open-track my car "a lot," maybe occasionally. I don't drive aggressively otherwise, so I probably wouldn't ever see the true benefits of a neg. wedge. What I'm concerned about is the spacing issue with large rims: I don't want the rims to hit. Will the Shelby drop accomplish that?? I appreciate the help.

 

[dodgestang]

Not to hijack...but just a quickie...
Are there any disadvantages to the shelby drop? Affect the straight line performance at all?

Downsides? Well your car will never be stock again, and you can kiss concourse division goodbye. As long as you take the right specs to the shop to get an alignment I know of no downsides.

There is no spring spacing issues with the 17s that I am aware off, but do the shelby drop anyway

 

[vobraman]

What is the difference between the 4 and the 5 leaf ? Is it stiffness, ride height, ride or what ? what shackles did you put on the rear ?
thanks
brian

 

[NorCal66]

What is the difference between the 4 and the 5 leaf ? Is it stiffness, ride height, ride or what ? what shackles did you put on the rear ?
thanks
brian

Far as I know the 5 leaf is just stiffer than the 4, I'm pretty sure ride height is determined by the location of the eye: standard, stock; mid, lower 1"; reverse, lower 1.5" .

 

[302RWP]

cool good for you. i was thinking about getting that kit also but wasnt sure, but it seems that it would help alot especially on corners. and you said it also improved your loose steering, i have that problem. have a fun time driving it

 

[2bav8]

Are there any disadvantages to the shelby drop? Affect the straight line performance at all?

Yes, your weight transfer when launching will not be as good for drag racing with the Shelby drop and/or negative wedge kit.
How much will your 60' times actually suffer, I can't say.

IMO, its a worthwhile trade off though if you drive your car frequently on the street.

 

[Fomocohipo]

I did a shelby drop and cut 1/3 off of my 620's. The lower front made it look pretty mean and it barely rolls in the corners now. The down side I guess is my springs settled and the tires squeek when turning some times but its not bad at all. Lookin to fix my loose steering and corner a little better, going to try and ajust my steering box hopefully its not shot, and currently dont have a rear sway bar.. what kind do you guys suggest??

 

[Edbert]

There is no spring spacing issues with the 17s that I am aware off, but do the shelby drop anyway

A little clarification....

I always thought (based on VERY old opinions/articles) that the "Shelby Drop" was as close to a mandatory mod on 65-66 cars as anything ever considered. But that the same drop was not as critical on 67-68 cars since they had SOME of the geometry corrected with the redesign. 67+ cars can still improve their geometry by doing the drop but the effects were not as dramatic.

Can anyone support or dispell that?

 

[rebel65]

whats with the 620 springs? are they so small that you dont need a compressor to get them in? arent there bad sides to the springs being so short? I have a 65 and durring the summer after i rebuild my 289 I will be working on the suspension to get the new power and old power to the ground. i dont really want to lower my car a whole lot because i plan on keeping this a street vehicle with 16x8's and i dont want to have to slow to a halt to cross railroad tracks. should i look for a different spring? or will these give my a fun agressive ride along with 4 leaf springs?
( i thought i stayd on topic for most of it ;D )