The ultimate bench race Cobra$$$ vs. 5.0$$$

mattkimsey · Oct 23, 2005

Ok, I'm trying to decide which car would make more financial sense to run 10.0 in the 1/4. This thread isn't meant to bash either car OR to name call and act childish in gereral. I just want to get an idea of the parts needed and prices. Keep in mind, both cars will be built over the next 5 yrs. and I could not pay cash for the Cobra or buy all the 5.0 parts at once.

Cobra first:
~$34k w/ interest over 5 yrs. (remember, I, like most, can’t pay cash)
-Insurance at least $4000 more (full coverage—car not payed for)
-Taxes at least $1500 more over 5 yrs.
-Kenne Bell S/C $4000
-Level 5’s $2500
-T56 rebuild at least $1200 (stocker wouldn’t be too reliable at 10.0)
-fuel upgrades (both will need this)
-clutch (both will need)
-tune (both)
-bolt ons (both)
-tires/safety equip/suspention (both will need, of course)
-drag wheels(both)

Would this be enough to go 10.0 in the Cobra?

Total: $47,200

Now the 5.0
-Car $3000 (paid cash, just liability insurance)
-Dart sportsman 347 short block $4000
-Trick flow H/C/I $2100
-S-trim $2500
-Transmission TKO 500 $1600
-Rear (spool, axles, diff etc.) $1000
-paint $700 (know someone)

Feel free to add anything I left off on both cars.

Total: $14,900

Which route would you go? I also want either car I pick to be as reliable as a 10.0 sec. car can be.
-

SeventyMach1 · Oct 23, 2005

My vote goes to "give it a rest". Wait that wasn't an option.

The question should be: "What would you do if your goal was a 10 sec. car & had $15K (or $40K) to work with?" Those 2 cars can't really be compared with one another. We all know that. Of course .... if we were all rich .... we would probably own the Cobra, though. Except me .... I'd opt. to go with the '06 Z06!

mattkimsey · Oct 23, 2005

IMO, for my application they can sort of be compared because they can both go fast, they are both Mustangs and imo, they both look good with big and littles

stprorolla49 · Oct 23, 2005

i'd go with the fox only cause its SOO much cheaper to build.......think about it man.......you could build the whole fox in a few years, and if you really wanted, get a terminator as a DD with money left over......by that time the 07 shelby cobra gt500 or w/e the hell it is will be out, so the terminators price should go down a decent bit........

Black95GTS · Oct 23, 2005

I think you'd have a very hard time running 10s with a trick flow hci kit. What are you using for internals on the 5.0? Cause I know stock pistons and such won't hold onto that kind of power even though the block will.

You didn't factor in the cost of all new forged internals, blue printing and balancing the block, all the machine work, etc. You can't just slap things in a new block and be good to go.

Plus you can run that cobra, then pull off, pick up your girl, and get ice cream on the way home. The 5.0 guy would be loading his onto a trailer.

adam

stprorolla49 · Oct 23, 2005

Black95GTS said:
I think you'd have a very hard time running 10s with a trick flow hci kit. What are you using for internals on the 5.0? Cause I know stock pistons and such won't hold onto that kind of power even though the block will.

You didn't factor in the cost of all new forged internals, blue printing and balancing the block, all the machine work, etc. You can't just slap things in a new block and be good to go.

Plus you can run that cobra, then pull off, pick up your girl, and get ice cream on the way home. The 5.0 guy would be loading his onto a trailer.

adam

yea tru....i was thinking about teh rotating assembly, but didnt notice it wanst there......

EDIT: i KNEW it was there.....he has $4000 put down for a dart 347 SHORTBLOCK.....which includes internals.....matt, can you specify the internals in that block?

bimmertech · Oct 23, 2005

i've got a 94gt with a 6pt cage, decent paint, seats, that i will sell you for 3k(dirt cheap imo). then add everything up and you will not be close to 15k or 10s. the cobra, as well as all the newer factory hot rods, are cheaper to make go fast cuz you don't need a whole lot more parts. i don't know, but arent there guys running tens with a ported stock eaton?

yellow1995Cobra · Oct 23, 2005

mattkimsey said:
Ok, I'm trying to decide which car would make more financial sense to run 10.0 in the 1/4. This thread isn't meant to bash either car OR to name call and act childish in gereral. I just want to get an idea of the parts needed and prices. Keep in mind, both cars will be built over the next 5 yrs. and I could not pay cash for the Cobra or buy all the 5.0 parts at once.

Cobra first:
~$34k w/ interest over 5 yrs. (remember, I, like most, can’t pay cash)
-Insurance at least $4000 more (full coverage—car not payed for)
-Taxes at least $1500 more over 5 yrs.
-Kenne Bell S/C $4000
-Level 5’s $2500
-T56 rebuild at least $1200 (stocker wouldn’t be too reliable at 10.0)
-fuel upgrades (both will need this)
-clutch (both will need)
-tune (both)
-bolt ons (both)
-tires/safety equip/suspention (both will need, of course)
-drag wheels(both)

Would this be enough to go 10.0 in the Cobra?

Total: $47,200

Now the 5.0
-Car $3000 (paid cash, just liability insurance)
-Dart sportsman 347 short block $4000
-Trick flow H/C/I $2100
-S-trim $2500
-Transmission TKO 500 $1600
-Rear (spool, axles, diff etc.) $1000
-paint $700 (know someone)

Feel free to add anything I left off on both cars.

Total: $14,900

Which route would you go? I also want either car I pick to be as reliable as a 10.0 sec. car can be.
-

Trickflow kit? LOL I want YOU to build this car... Do it big boy.

When you make a REAL list with parts that will ACTUALLY WORK, then add it up.

Black95GTS · Oct 23, 2005

I just want to see him take an out of the box street heat manifold into the 10 second range.

Or accomplish a full HCI for only 2100 bucks.

BlueOvalStangGT · Oct 23, 2005

Is this gonna be a race car or a daily driver?

TrueBlue95GT · Oct 23, 2005

10.0 seconds in the quarter mile is a big number. If you want to hit 10 flat in the 5.0 you're going to need a more solid combo. You can't put a regular Trick flow kit on a 347 and expect to get great results even n/a. You need to run either a ported tfs track heat head or you need to run a head with at least 205cc runners. Then, you're going to need a free flowing intake like the spyder efi. And the supporting mods for the 5.0 would be quite high. 90mm tb, 90mm MAF, 55lb/hr inj, fuel rails, huge fuel pump, you're going to need sometime of aftermarket computer system. And somebody to dyno tune it. I think you would need to add another 4000 just in stuff I mentioned.

super302 · Oct 23, 2005

umm...your list of parts is a joke, if you think you can do all that for 15k, you need a reality check.
and i'm sure you won't be close to 10.0's either

03 cobra is better in EVERY aspect:
-way better gains/$$
-WAY more reliable
-NEWER!!!!!
-still friendly as a DD

xr8d302 · Oct 23, 2005

That dart block he speaks of would either not have internals, or his price is way off.

Call DSS racing, for one of their assembled blocks, ask them for a price on it. If you want quality work done, you're going to pay closer to 7500 bucks for a good strong short block

I know this because I was going to buy one a few months ago, I thought the same way as you, but for what you get with the block, it won't produce a 10 second timeslip. I opted to wait out until I can find a better deal.

Cost you believe it will take to make a 10 second 5.0 - $14900
Cost of upgrading the lack of block you got - $4000
Labour & tuning, unless you're a master mechanic, in which case you wouldn't be on here arguing it, but instead you'd be out building it - $4000
Dyno's and Track days in which you disappoint yourself with times - $600
Medication your wife will have to take to deal with her husband's fantasy car - $700
Broken parts, not including clutches - $3500
Rollcage for when they finally kick you off the track when you punch an 11.50 or quicker after 4 years of building - $700
Redoing the paintjob that cracked and faded since you started the buildup - another $700
Quality paint - $400
Clutches - $1500
Helmet - $12
Watching you come back in here with an 03 Cobra in 5 years telling us it's easier to mod one than an GT-500 - priceless.

yellow1995Cobra · Oct 23, 2005

xr8d302 said:
That dart block he speaks of would either not have internals, or his price is way off.

Call DSS racing, for one of their assembled blocks, ask them for a price on it. If you want quality work done, you're going to pay closer to 7500 bucks for a good strong short block

I know this because I was going to buy one a few months ago, I thought the same way as you, but for what you get with the block, it won't produce a 10 second timeslip. I opted to wait out until I can find a better deal.

Cost you believe it will take to make a 10 second 5.0 - $14900
Cost of upgrading the lack of block you got - $4000
Labour & tuning, unless you're a master mechanic, in which case you wouldn't be on here arguing it, but instead you'd be out building it - $4000
Dyno's and Track days in which you disappoint yourself with times - $600
Medication your wife will have to take to deal with her husband's fantasy car - $700
Broken parts, not including clutches - $3500
Rollcage for when they finally kick you off the track when you punch an 11.50 or quicker after 4 years of building - $700
Redoing the paintjob that cracked and faded since you started the buildup - another $700
Quality paint - $400
Clutches - $1500
Helmet - $12
Watching you come back in here with an 03 Cobra in 5 years telling us it's easier to mod one than an GT-500 - priceless.

hahahah great post man, fricken hilarious

xr8d302 · Oct 23, 2005

Thanks

Hey man, do you have any old pictures of the 95 to put up, with the 418 dropped in it, i miss seeing that beast.

yellow1995Cobra · Oct 23, 2005

Heres my 94/95 5.0 build up, all prices will be more then fair -

Fuel/induction -

Single Turbo kit - 3500
72# injectors - 450
Race tbody - 300
Fox tb conversion - 40
MAF - 250
Intank fuel pump -140
Inline fuel pump - 170
Adjustable fuel regulator - 120

Engine -

Dart block 347 shortblock - 5000
Afr 205 heads -2000
FTI cam - 325
Edelbrock victor intake manifold - 550
Pushrods - 70
Lifters - 100
Head studs - 120
Cometic HG's - 100
7qt oil pan - 200

Tranny

Built dynamic c4 transmission with, bellhousing, converter, brake, reverse manual valve body - 2500

Rims/ tires

Drag rims, skinnies up front, 15x10's out back - 700
ET Drags/skinnies - 530

Rear End

Gears - 180
Diff t/a cover - 120
Superior axles 31 spline - 250
Differential of choice - 350

Cooling and electrical-

Fluidyne rad - 300
MSD 6al w/ BTM - 200
MSD plug wires - 80
Autolite Spark plugs - 14
Cap/rotor - 20
blaster coil - 50

Misc stuff

Light weight seats - 500
gauges- water temp, fuel pressure, wideband, oil pressure, boost - 700
Wolfe roll cage - 700
Subframes - 100
Race harness seat belts - 100
Tuning - 600
Motor oil, oil filters, cam lube, arp moly lube, arp thread sealant, antifreeze - 80

Ok i missed things, even at this point. Im up to 21,509 at this point. Now lets add tax to it at 5%. Thats another 1075.45. SO a grand total at this point is 22,584.45.

I went with a c4 to aid in that 10.0. It would take ALOT more track time(and broken 5 spds) to run that time on a manual.

Just remebered something i missed! Exhaust! and price of the car.. Im sure theres even more. This combo should give you 10.0's with alot of tuning and practice, but like everything in life, is no sure thing.

nmcgrawj · Oct 23, 2005

mattkimsey said:
Now the 5.0
-Car $3000 (paid cash, just liability insurance)
-Dart sportsman 347 short block $4000
-Trick flow H/C/I $2100
-S-trim $2500
-Transmission TKO 500 $1600
-Rear (spool, axles, diff etc.) $1000
-paint $700 (know someone)

Feel free to add anything I left off on both cars.

Total: $14,900

-

It baffles me that you would choose to save less than $100 and go with the weaker tko-500 and not the tko600. A better h/c/i package is a MUST. That combo is good for 302's....not even close to optimal for a 347...let along a blown 347.

If i were you, i would look into a turbo, but thats not an option.

You also need to be real with yourself like these other guys have said and make a real list with real prices. Talk to someone(like the guys who have posted) who has made a similar combo to see if they have a list. That will give you a reality check i think.

Go to turbomustangs.com you will want to change your plan

bjl95mustang · Oct 23, 2005

Get a 418, dart block and a turbo.

mattkimsey · Oct 23, 2005

Guys, the Dart shortblock is $4295, http://www.treperformance.com/Block/Ford306331347Dart8second.html One of the members on here that builds engines said this:

I charge $4295 for a DART Sportsman based shortblock all brand name components (Eagle, Scat), H-series bearings, file to fit plasma moly rings, internally balanced, professionally assembled, blueprinted, all spec and build sheets supplied.

I was assuming $4000 if you built your own(block 1800 and internals $1400).

So your 5k is a little off. Buying the sb already assembled will save time though.

About the trickflow kit, my friend runs 10.5@129 with a 306, unported trickflow twisted wedge, trickflow street intake and a novi 2000. So yes, I feel 10.0 can be done with a 347 and more boost(he is limited by the stock block). Not tryin to be mean, but maybe it would help if some of you checked out the corral to see what those guys are running with similar combos.

nmcgrawj · Oct 23, 2005

I've been thinking guys....i think we dont NEED all this crap to make the power.

I just had that thread going with Jay Allen running 11's on junk(lol his words) and his goal is to get a 10 out of it before switching to those Dart heads.

Now...i know that his times along with the others that have done it come from knowledge and experience. But i think if you teamed up with one of those guys that you dont need too get all this "power" making stuff.

A turbo 347 will blow Jay's combo out of the water on paper...yet his combo will run with it on the track.

Take a step back and learn what it takes to go fast. You dont need to spend all the money on these big power parts...i would imagine a turbo 418 with a dart block should be under 10's easily.

Think about this....think it through and make a plan. Dont just go out buying parts that make tons of power. Its not needed and sometimes will make it harder on yourself.

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