The ultimate bench race Cobra$$$ vs. 5.0$$$

[mattkimsey]

That dart block he speaks of would either not have internals, or his price is way off.

Call DSS racing, for one of their assembled blocks, ask them for a price on it. If you want quality work done, you're going to pay closer to 7500 bucks for a good strong short block

I know this because I was going to buy one a few months ago, I thought the same way as you, but for what you get with the block, it won't produce a 10 second timeslip. I opted to wait out until I can find a better deal.

Cost you believe it will take to make a 10 second 5.0 - $14900
Cost of upgrading the lack of block you got - $4000
Labour & tuning, unless you're a master mechanic, in which case you wouldn't be on here arguing it, but instead you'd be out building it - $4000
Dyno's and Track days in which you disappoint yourself with times - $600
Medication your wife will have to take to deal with her husband's fantasy car - $700
Broken parts, not including clutches - $3500
Rollcage for when they finally kick you off the track when you punch an 11.50 or quicker after 4 years of building - $700
Redoing the paintjob that cracked and faded since you started the buildup - another $700
Quality paint - $400
Clutches - $1500
Helmet - $12
Watching you come back in here with an 03 Cobra in 5 years telling us it's easier to mod one than an GT-500 - priceless.

Like I said, the block is $4295(cheaper if you do it on your own), both cars will have broken parts, believe it or not!, As you can see in my first post, I included safety equipment and clutches.....read it again please.

 

[nmcgrawj]

About the trickflow kit, my friend runs 10.5@129 with a 306, unported trickflow twisted wedge, trickflow street intake and a novi 2000. So yes, I feel 10.0 can be done with a 347 and more boost(he is limited by the stock block). Not tryin to be mean, but maybe it would help if some of you checked out the corral to see what those guys are running with similar combos.

The point is that the TFS package is just about optimal for a 302 motor. Up the cubes and it isnt. Spend all this cash for a combo that isnt matched for what its supposed to be and your results wont be optimal. You shouldnt use 302 parts on a 347. Period.

 

[mattkimsey]

I've been thinking guys....i think we dont NEED all this crap to make the power.


I just had that thread going with Jay Allen running 11's on junk(lol his words) and his goal is to get a 10 out of it before switching to those Dart heads.

Now...i know that his times along with the others that have done it come from knowledge and experience. But i think if you teamed up with one of those guys that you dont need too get all this "power" making stuff.

A turbo 347 will blow Jay's combo out of the water on paper...yet his combo will run with it on the track.

Take a step back and learn what it takes to go fast. You dont need to spend all the money on these big power parts...i would imagine a turbo 418 with a dart block should be under 10's easily.

Think about this....think it through and make a plan. Dont just go out buying parts that make tons of power. Its not needed and sometimes will make it harder on yourself.

I couldn't have said it better! These parts list some people are throwin' out---it's like they assume bigger is better and you want to go low 9's.

I mean, some of the guys at turbomustangs are running mid 10's with STOCK LONGBLOCKS. Sure this isn't the best way to go, but to say unported trickflows wont support 10.0 sounds crazy to me.

 

[mattkimsey]

The point is that the TFS package is just about optimal for a 302 motor. Up the cubes and it isnt. Spend all this cash for a combo that isnt matched for what its supposed to be and your results wont be optimal. You shouldnt use 302 parts on a 347. Period.

I agree that they may be more suited for a 302, but they wont make less power on a 347......they'll make a lot more. If you're after 10.0 it really doesn't matter as long as the car runs the times.

 

[mattkimsey]

Heres my 94/95 5.0 build up, all prices will be more then fair -

Fuel/induction -

Single Turbo kit - 3500
72# injectors - 450
Race tbody - 300
Fox tb conversion - 40
MAF - 250
Intank fuel pump -140
Inline fuel pump - 170
Adjustable fuel regulator - 120

Engine -

Dart block 347 shortblock - 5000
Afr 205 heads -2000
FTI cam - 325
Edelbrock victor intake manifold - 550
Pushrods - 70
Lifters - 100
Head studs - 120
Cometic HG's - 100
7qt oil pan - 200

Tranny

Built dynamic c4 transmission with, bellhousing, converter, brake, reverse manual valve body - 2500

Rims/ tires

Drag rims, skinnies up front, 15x10's out back - 700
ET Drags/skinnies - 530

Rear End

Gears - 180
Diff t/a cover - 120
Superior axles 31 spline - 250
Differential of choice - 350

Cooling and electrical-

Fluidyne rad - 300
MSD 6al w/ BTM - 200
MSD plug wires - 80
Autolite Spark plugs - 14
Cap/rotor - 20
blaster coil - 50

Misc stuff

Light weight seats - 500
gauges- water temp, fuel pressure, wideband, oil pressure, boost - 700
Wolfe roll cage - 700
Subframes - 100
Race harness seat belts - 100
Tuning - 600
Motor oil, oil filters, cam lube, arp moly lube, arp thread sealant, antifreeze - 80
Ok i missed things, even at this point. Im up to 21,509 at this point. Now lets add tax to it at 5%. Thats another 1075.45. SO a grand total at this point is 22,584.45.

I went with a c4 to aid in that 10.0. It would take ALOT more track time(and broken 5 spds) to run that time on a manual.

Just remebered something i missed! Exhaust! and price of the car.. Im sure theres even more. This combo should give you 10.0's with alot of tuning and practice, but like everything in life, is no sure thing.

OMG!!!!! You wouldn't believe how close our estimates are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you read my original post, you would see that I listed things both cars would need and didn't include them in EITHER cars total price! Let me deduct some stuff and you'll see how close we are!!

72# injectors - 450
Race tbody - 300
Fox tb conversion - 40
MAF - 250
Intank fuel pump -140
Inline fuel pump - 170
Adjustable fuel regulator - 120

both cars will need a fuel system -$1430

I showed you a Dart shortblock for $4300----deduct -$700

The 5.0 gets a c4 and the Cobra gets a cheap $1200 t56 rebuild? Not fair--deduct -$600 to give the 5.0 a manual(with better gearing and strength might I add)

rims and tires, I listed that both would need this in the original post! deduct -$1230

Both cars will need gears, axles, diff deduct -$780

misc. stuff lol Are you kidding me? Both cars will need all that stuff minus the seats---I clearly stated that both cars would need safety equipment/tune.---deduct -$2780 both cars will pay tax for parts -$1075.45

Total deductions- $8595.45

 

[1slow95]

I've been thinking guys....i think we dont NEED all this crap to make the power.


I just had that thread going with Jay Allen running 11's on junk(lol his words) and his goal is to get a 10 out of it before switching to those Dart heads.

Now...i know that his times along with the others that have done it come from knowledge and experience. But i think if you teamed up with one of those guys that you dont need too get all this "power" making stuff.

A turbo 347 will blow Jay's combo out of the water on paper...yet his combo will run with it on the track.

Take a step back and learn what it takes to go fast. You dont need to spend all the money on these big power parts...i would imagine a turbo 418 with a dart block should be under 10's easily.

Think about this....think it through and make a plan. Dont just go out buying parts that make tons of power. Its not needed and sometimes will make it harder on yourself.

I just finished reading an article in an old 5.0 Mustang mag about a stock engine'd notchback ran a 10.91@123. Stock intake, tb, heads, cam, rr's, block, running 10's. Of course that's with 17#'s of boost from a vortec s-trim and methanol injection, and the car only weighs 3020#'s. And he only has $8K in the whole car. Knowledge and driving skill are the best ways to go fast, not $20K+ in parts. Just look at the Supra guys.

The beauty of the 03 Cobra is that you can run 11's, or maybe high 10's, in a car that you would want to drive every day. If you're looking for a 10.0 in the 1/4, by that time you will have a car built purely for drag racing. At that point tho, why spend the extra money for the Cobra when you can build an old fox body for cheaper?

 

[bimmertech]

what about us non-drag racers? i think this bench race should be judged like the GRM 200x challenges. if you put a cap of 30k, including the price of the vehicle, then put them through a test of drag, slalom, braking, autocross, etc.. which would be the victor.

or you could take carol shelby vs. mike ditka, carol shelby gets any car he ever had his signature on and ditka gets a school bus. who would win? my money's on ditka, i mean he could take god right?

 

[mattkimsey]

I agree, bimmer, but that would severly limit the Cobra because it's almost 30k just for the stock car. Also, when you want to run 10.0...braking distance and turning aren't very important(both cars will be setup for straight line performance)

 

[yellow1995Cobra]

OMG!!!!! You wouldn't believe how close our estimates are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you read my original post, you would see that I listed things both cars would need and didn't include them in EITHER cars total price! Let me deduct some stuff and you'll see how close we are!!

72# injectors - 450
Race tbody - 300
Fox tb conversion - 40
MAF - 250
Intank fuel pump -140
Inline fuel pump - 170
Adjustable fuel regulator - 120

both cars will need a fuel system -$1430

I showed you a Dart shortblock for $4300----deduct -$700

The 5.0 gets a c4 and the Cobra gets a cheap $1200 t56 rebuild? Not fair--deduct -$600 to give the 5.0 a manual(with better gearing and strength might I add)

rims and tires, I listed that both would need this in the original post! deduct -$1230

Both cars will need gears, axles, diff deduct -$780

misc. stuff lol Are you kidding me? Both cars will need all that stuff minus the seats---I clearly stated that both cars would need safety equipment/tune.---deduct -$2780 both cars will pay tax for parts -$1075.45

Total deductions- $8595.45

I dont get what your saying? You deduct for rims and other stuff.. So your gonna race your car with no rims, no tires? no gears?etc If you add up JUST what i stated above i got 20k or whatever the exact # was. I wasnt including it with the #'s you came up with.

I never said anything about the cobra build up.. I was just coming up with a nice 95 build up that could go 10.0 and there you have it. No doubt the 03 cobra build up would be 10k on top of the price of the car to get it to run a 10.0.


low5.0 - 10.9 is far off from a 10.0.....

 

[mattkimsey]

I dont get what your saying? You deduct for rims and other stuff.. So your gonna race your car with no rims, no tires? no gears?etc If you add up JUST what i stated above i got 20k or whatever the exact # was. I wasnt including it with the #'s you came up with.

I never said anything about the cobra build up.. I was just coming up with a nice 95 build up that could go 10.0 and there you have it. No doubt the 03 cobra build up would be 10k on top of the price of the car to get it to run a 10.0.


low5.0 - 10.9 is far off from a 10.0.....

Yeah, I know what you were doin', you were adding in a lot of the little things I left off because both cars would need them.

If you want we can say $8595.45(the little things) added on the Cobra, which would give us $55,795.45 and $21,184 for the 5.0. Also, that is a pretty detailed list of components for the 5.0, I'm sure I left out A LOT of stuff for the Cobra.

 

[94gts]

some of those combos listed will go way way way lower than 10's

 

[1slow95]

I agree, bimmer, but that would severly limit the Cobra because it's almost 30k just for the stock car. Also, when you want to run 10.0...braking distance and turning aren't very important(both cars will be setup for straight line performance)

This 10.0 1/4 mile comparison clearly gives the 5.0 a huge advantage. I think bimmer is trying to get you see the Cobra for what it is, an all around good car. By doing the comparison that bimmer suggested, the Cobra can actually compete with the 5.0 in cost for performance.

To achieve a 10.0 second run in the Cobra, you would have to change pretty much everything that makes it a Cobra except for the engine. Why not compare an 03 Cobra-powered 87-95 to a pushrod powered 87-95? That seems like a more logical comparison to me.


Jesse, I know 10.9 is a long ways off a 10.0, but it's still very impressive for a stock 5.0 with a total cost(including car) of $8K. I could see another $5-6K or so in a good H/C/I getting him close to a 10.0, if not beyond. I have a feeling that the stock block won't last too long like that tho. Or maybe I have no idea what Im talking about, who knows.

 

[super302]

Yeah, I know what you were doin', you were adding in a lot of the little things I left off because both cars would need them.

If you want we can say $8595.45(the little things) added on the Cobra, which would give us $55,795.45 and $21,184 for the 5.0. Also, that is a pretty detailed list of components for the 5.0, I'm sure I left out A LOT of stuff for the Cobra.

so a cobra cost 47,200???

 

[mattkimsey]

so a cobra cost 47,200???

Go to first page, read, comeback later.

 

[super302]

Go to first page, read, comeback later.

I did read it, your prices are outrageous

my friend:
04 cobra w/ self ported eaton and lower pulley swap, and 150shot of nitrous on BFG Dr's runs 10.80's....
i'm pretty sure those mods don't cost more than 1k

oh ya, he has a short shifter, that must have cost him $7000

 

[1slow95]

I just realized that you included $4000 of insurance on the Cobra, but no insurance cost on the 5.0. You also have the initial price of the Cobra at $34K w/interest which I thought was determined to be way too high. Also, looking at the mod list for the Cobra, anybody that can afford to do those mods would certainly be able to afford the cost of the car without spending $7-8K in interest.

 

[mattkimsey]

I just realized that you included $4000 of insurance on the Cobra, but no insurance cost on the 5.0.

No sir, that is the extra money paid for full coverage over the next 5 yrs.

You also have the initial price of the Cobra at $34K w/interest which I thought was determined to be way too high.

Actually, that is about right when you include TTT and the interest over 5 yrs.

Also, looking at the mod list for the Cobra, anybody that can afford to do those mods would certainly be able to afford the cost of the car without spending $7-8K in interest.

We aren't talking about that person, we are talking about the average person. They will mod the car over 5-6yrs.

 

[1slow95]

No sir, that is the extra money paid for full coverage over the next 5 yrs. Actually, that is about right when you include TTT and the interest over 5 yrs. We aren't talking about that person, we are talking about the average person. They will mod the car over 5-6yrs.

1. $4000 for 5 years of full coverage! Im paying $1400 a year for a 4-cyl Mazda!

2. TTT on a $27K car should not be more than $1500 at the most. If you put no money down, then I could see it being close to $34K by the time it's paid off, but how many people(besides me ) would buy a $20K+ car with no money down?

3. Your average person is not going to do those mods and shoot for a 10.0. Maybe 12.0-11.0, but not 10.0.

 

[yellow1995Cobra]

Basically what it comes down to is mattnub cant afford a cobra.. Obviously has horrible credit as well. Not our faults you cant pay your bills on time. Someone please lock these threads.

 

[94gts]

Someone please lock these threads.

when there is a debate going why is everyone so fast to bitch and whine for a lock?