Thinking about doing heads and intake on my stock shortblock

LarsD · Nov 7, 2010

Found a local member on another board I frequent selling some bolted on but never used Trickflow 170's with scorpion RR's, and a Trickflow intake for a decent price. Since I know I won't be doing my engine swap for a while I was thinking about buying these and burning a weekend swapping them into my stock 150K mile shortblock. It uses oil (I assume, it doesn't leak, or smoke, but a quart vanishes ever 1K miles), but I really need another 50 to 60hp out of this car. It is so painfully slow right now. I don't plan on swapping the cam cause of the added cost, and if I'm getting that deep into the engine I might as well build the whole thing (which I'm not ready for).

Tell me its a good plan or beat me up.

FoxGT87 · Nov 7, 2010

do it

wythors · Nov 7, 2010

LarsD said:
. I don't plan on swapping the cam cause of the added cost, and if I'm getting that deep into the engine I might as well build the whole thing (which I'm not ready for).

I don't really understand that last part, since you only have to pull the timing cover to get to the cam.

Other than that, do it. It's a no brainer in my book.

LarsD · Nov 7, 2010

wythors said:
I don't really understand that last part, since you only have to pull the timing cover to get to the cam.

Other than that, do it. It's a no brainer in my book.

Well I'm not sure if you can R&R the cam with the condenser in place. Since my A/C actually works I'd like to not disturb the system. Plus idk if I'd need to replace the cam bearings since they have a lot of miles on them etc, figure it's just easier to leave the cam alone, especially since I should be able to get what I want out of the car with just heads and intake.

Shaolin Crane · Nov 7, 2010

you're better off pulling the engine and just having it refreshed, should only be a few bucks more for the heads and cam to be installed. My engine builder charged me $270 to assemble my new 347

LarsD · Nov 7, 2010

Shaolin Crane said:
you're better off pulling the engine and just having it refreshed, should only be a few bucks more for the heads and cam to be installed. My engine builder charged me $270 to assemble my new 347

Well I've installed and degree'd cams myself, heads are also not a big deal. What I'm trying to avoid is the whole snowball affect that comes with a new engine.

2000xp8 · Nov 7, 2010

Well, there is always a chance that the oil burning is the valve guides or intake gaskets, but it's unlikely.

Remember too, Tw's are for sale at summit for $999 so don't over pay for them used.

Want to know if it's worth it?
Get an autometer oil pressure gauge, drive around with it. If the pressure goes below 15 or so when hot, i'd say don't bother.

As far as the cam, whythors is right, might as well just do it, it's not much more work if you decide to do the heads.

Shaolin Crane · Nov 7, 2010

LarsD said:
Well I've installed and degree'd cams myself, heads are also not a big deal. What I'm trying to avoid is the whole snowball affect that comes with a new engine.

Rings and bearings are cheap, and having someone else do the engine for you keeps you from snowballing into something insane. Drop it off, pick it up finished and you're set. Its when i do work myself that i go crazy

LarsD · Nov 7, 2010

2000xp8 said:
Well, there is always a chance that the oil burning is the valve guides or intake gaskets, but it's unlikely.

Remember too, Tw's are for sale at summit for $999 so don't over pay for them used.

Want to know if it's worth it?
Get an autometer oil pressure gauge, drive around with it. If the pressure goes below 15 or so when hot, i'd say don't bother.

As far as the cam, whythors is right, might as well just do it, it's not much more work if you decide to do the heads.

Well it's TW 170's with a set of Scorpion rockers, ARP head studs, and push rods for $1300, and a Track Heat upper and lower for $375. I was going offer him like, $1500 for all of it and see if he'd bite. Car idles @ 25 psi in 100 degree heat with 10W-40 in the crankcase.

LarsD · Nov 7, 2010

Shaolin Crane said:
Rings and bearings are cheap, and having someone else do the engine for you keeps you from snowballing into something insane. Drop it off, pick it up finished and you're set. Its when i do work myself that i go crazy

It'll still snowball. This is a matter of a sub $2K job vs. a $6K+ job, there really isn't an in between for me. Plus I can use these heads later on the stroker engine (maybe). I mean, I could just buy them and save them for the engine build at a later date, problem is when I build the engine I want the car is going to need rear end work, a tremec, etc. Stuff I can get away with not messing with right now if I just beef up the stock short block.

2000xp8 · Nov 7, 2010

LarsD said:
Well it's TW 170's with a set of Scorpion rockers, ARP head studs, and push rods for $1300, and a Track Heat upper and lower for $375. I was going offer him like, $1500 for all of it and see if he'd bite. Car idles @ 25 psi in 100 degree heat with 10W-40 in the crankcase.

That's still no bargain.
I just checked summit, Tw's are $950 (.540 lift springs)
Used intakes are always around $300-$400. New $520
The pushrods may not be perfect for your car, and technically used pushrods have no value.
And the Rockers are usually $150 or less used.

You are saving like 10%, that's not enough.
$1000, maybe $1100 is fair for used parts.

25psi hot idle is pretty good, i'd say your bearings are good if those numbers are accurate. I know what it's like to have bad bearings, i used to get 10 or less psi at hot idle.

MFE92 · Nov 7, 2010

LarsD said:
Well I'm not sure if you can R&R the cam with the condenser in place. Since my A/C actually works I'd like to not disturb the system. Plus idk if I'd need to replace the cam bearings since they have a lot of miles on them etc, figure it's just easier to leave the cam alone, especially since I should be able to get what I want out of the car with just heads and intake.

You can just unbolt it and lift it up out of the way without disturbing the lines. It's been a long time since I swapped cams in the car so I can't even remember if you need to move it once you get the rad out of the way, but if you do...you don't need to disconnect it. Hell, you don't even need to disconnect the fuel lines, just lift the rails up and out of the way. Same thing with the A/C compressor, tie it back out of the way.

LarsD · Nov 7, 2010

2000xp8 said:
That's still no bargain.
I just checked summit, Tw's are $950 (.540 lift springs)
Used intakes are always around $300-$400. New $520
The pushrods may not be perfect for your car, and technically used pushrods have no value.
And the Rockers are usually $150 or less used.

You are saving like 10%, that's not enough.
$1000, maybe $1100 is fair for used parts.

25psi hot idle is pretty good, i'd say your bearings are good if those numbers are accurate. I know what it's like to have bad bearings, i used to get 10 or less psi at hot idle.

The parts are supposed to be new, course if I ordered them from Summit they would be new for sure.

Wonder if it is the guides causing my oil loss. Car doesn't smoke at all, no leaks either.

MFE92 said:
You can just unbolt it and lift it up out of the way without disturbing the lines. It's been a long time since I swapped cams in the car so I can't even remember if you need to move it once you get the rad out of the way, but if you do...you don't need to disconnect it. Hell, you don't even need to disconnect the fuel lines, just lift the rails up and out of the way. Same thing with the A/C compressor, tie it back out of the way.

idk if it is worth the risk. I'd be pretty happy with 300 at the flywheel. Been itching to do something ever since a 370 was taunting me on my drive back home and I was in the Fox and not my WRX.

venom97 · Nov 8, 2010

i personally would hold off on the used parts because like previously said its not that great of a deal. i picked up a set of used performers and frpp 1.6 roller rockers for 450(which is hard deal to find but are out there) keep looking for sure. i put them on my 115,000 shortblock added a f cam i bought from someone that used it to start their new build up for 15 min for $80 and put a used cobra intake on it for 150 bucks. for a stock motor id say it runs pretty good. just my 2 cents but something to think about.

2000xp8 · Nov 8, 2010

LarsD said:
The parts are supposed to be new, course if I ordered them from Summit they would be new for sure.

Wonder if it is the guides causing my oil loss. Car doesn't smoke at all, no leaks either.

There's nothing quite like having a return receipt with your name and address on it. That's what seperates new from used sometimes. When i buy parts with no receipt i automatically drop 30% off my offer. If you actually used the parts, even more.

For the oil loss, i've known guys that were losing it through bad intake gaskets. The valve guides is less common, but it happens. Either way if you get a h/c/i setup, those 2 issues are fixed.

Don't worry about the A/C, does not need to be disconnected to do the cam. As said above you just strap it out of the way.

I'd say go for it (with the cam too).
Worst case scenario, still burns oil, you get an explorer engine, part out the gt40p top end, slap the h/c/i on the bottom end, and put it back in the car.

LarsD · Nov 9, 2010

What about cam bearings? Would I have to replace them during the cam swap? Not sure how I could do that with it in the car since the last one comes out the back.

2000xp8 · Nov 9, 2010

I've never heard of anyone changing the cam bearings during a h/c/i swap.

LarsD · Nov 9, 2010

2000xp8 said:
I've never heard of anyone changing the cam bearings during a h/c/i swap.

OK, I didn't think so, but the only time I've ever done a cam is when the engine has been rebuilt and the bearings had been replaced anyway.

LarsD · Nov 10, 2010

Thanks to everyone for bouncing around suggestions. I ordered the heads this morning when i got home from work.

venom97 · Nov 10, 2010

sweet man,post up what ya think when its done! made a big difference with my turd,lol.

Thinking about doing heads and intake on my stock shortblock

LarsD

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